Overall this is been one of the best discussions I have seen on this website in a long time. It's clear that people have wildly varying definitions of traditional climbing. In the end though, does it really matter what it actually means? As long as we treat the cliff with the respect it deserves, treat each other with respect, and have fun, then who really cares.

By the way Chas...I tried the "I'm just going to climb harder" philosophy last year. It worked on ice, but on rock I just wound up falling more. Granted I didn't upgrade my partners ability, so there's that sense that I'm really being out there still. My approach to climbing this year is "you fall on basically everything, so you may as well get on those really good routes and fall on them!" here I come Supper's Ready and VMC Direct!