Forums: Climbing Information: Accident and Incident Analysis: Re: [patto] Horseshoe Canyon Ranch Accident: Edit Log




Partner rrrADAM


Oct 18, 2011, 10:20 AM

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Registered: Dec 19, 1999
Posts: 17553

Re: [patto] Horseshoe Canyon Ranch Accident
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patto wrote:
Why stop at buddy checks. Why not have a third party come in a check. Why not fourth person checks?

How is your buddy checking you better than you checking yourself a second and a third time? Would two self checks equal a buddy check? What about three?

I check everything I do. I then check it again. I don't NEED a buddy check EVER. If I did then I shouldn't be climbing.

Am I infallible? No. But my failings aren't things that a token buddy check will pick up on.

If I am THAT worried about "redundancy" then I would climb on two separate alternating single ropes with independent belayers and backup belayers. Sure we can always improve safety, but 'buddy checks' are well down the list for me.

rrrADAM wrote:
Again... I agree that we need to know what we are doing, and we don't RELY on buddy-checks, but rather it is a form of redundancy that we can utilize when available, and it seems absurd, to me, to proactively discourage this, and to posit that a "better" way is to check your knot while up on a route.
Nobody is proactively discouraging buddy checks. And nobody is stating that a "better" way to check is up on a route.


Ummmmm.....
Jim wrote:
I have a simple rule to check my own knot when I reach down to clip the first piece and consider this the best habit to get into.
How do you read this? "best habbit", by definition, would be a habbit that is "better" than any other, hence the word BEST.

And....
In reply to:
...I refuse to teach partner check...
That is proactively refusing to teach (i.e., discourage) this. See, he doesn't just not teach it, but he does so proactively, as in, for a reason.



As for the rest of your post... Really?

[butt hurt?]

Stop taking oyurself so seriously, brutha... Nobody here is trying to chop anyone else down, so no need for egos to start sounding off.



To put it bluntly... What would YOU think better:

1. Your belay catching your knot wasn't finished BEFORE you blasted off.

2. You reaching down to make your first clip, 20' up over sketchy ground, finding your knot not quite right?


Or...

1. Before you blast off, finding your belayer's biner not locked and having them lock it.

2. Taking a fall 30' up and having your rope come out of the biner and ATC on your belayer's harness?



I eagerly await your answer?


(This post was edited by rrrADAM on Oct 18, 2011, 5:10 PM)



Edit Log:
Post edited by rrrADAM () on Oct 18, 2011, 10:24 AM
Post edited by rrrADAM () on Oct 18, 2011, 11:09 AM
Post edited by rrrADAM () on Oct 18, 2011, 5:10 PM


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