Forums: Climbing Information: Accident and Incident Analysis: Re: [bearbreeder] Gym Death- Knot Failure: Edit Log




guangzhou


Apr 10, 2012, 7:06 PM

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Registered: Sep 26, 2004
Posts: 3389

Re: [bearbreeder] Gym Death- Knot Failure
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bearbreeder wrote:
your gym, your rules

the reality of it though is that after a while a partner is less and less likely to ask a floor person to check the bowline on every subsequent tie in ...

theres been "incidents" with the bowline IMO ... whatever the cause ...

http://www.rockandice.com/...cle/324-not-the-knot

http://www.rockfax.com/...1/12/04/knot-safety/

Agreed, my gym and alternately, I'll be asked to make the final call. With that, I rey on my key staff's input to make decisions, all have to give their opinions: Pros and Cons. Personally, I like the idea of Figure 8s only, I wrote it int he original SOP, now that members are asking, we're visiting the issue.

Agree, they will rely less and less on the floor safety as they become more and more confident in their ability to check the knot.

While I disagree with the article, as do many, the links above both mention bowlines and I am talking about a retraced bowline.

I also like the Yosemite bowline, which your article above also mentions as safe. The retraced bowline isn't mentioned in either.

A properly tied figure eight, bowline (Yosemite and retrace as well) doesn't fail. Knots come undone when the user has tied them incorrectly.

Again, it's what you're use too, so changing is difficult. When I was learning to climb, I learned to tie a double fisherman to join two ropes. A few years later, I learned to join two ropes together with a retraced figure 8. I felt strange at first, but I have stopped using the double fisherman. I teach it in climbing classes.

When I join two ropes together, I use the retrace eight now, and most of the time rap on a overhand bend the AKA "Euro Death Knot."

Pick a knot and use it, that's the key. Double Check Double Check, have your partner do the same.

Both UIAA and BMC find that the Bowline is acceptable for tying in.

AMGA now has added the Bowline to it's Curriculum for the SPI Course.

Anyways, this is becoming a circular argument. Simple, if you don't like or distrust the Bowline or any of it's variants, do use it.

On a side note, I wasn't asking anyone on this forums opinion of what knot to use or not use in my gym. I've not climbed or met any of you, so your opinion on this issue isn't very useful to me. I have no idea what your real world experience actually is.

I have no idea who is or isn't behind the keyboard. (I think I met RG years ago, but not sure.)


(This post was edited by guangzhou on Apr 10, 2012, 7:20 PM)



Edit Log:
Post edited by guangzhou () on Apr 10, 2012, 7:13 PM
Post edited by guangzhou () on Apr 10, 2012, 7:20 PM


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