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bumblie
Feb 16, 2005, 1:31 PM
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Maybe it's just my personal preference, but I've always thought the real deal in rockclimbing is being out on the sharpend. Even in sportclimbing or bouldering, if you're risking more than a few feet (of rope stretch), you're pushing yourself. There's a distinct difference between a "rockclimber" and someone who goes rockclimbing. It's who you are versus an occassional pasttime.
Understandable, there is a period in which all beginners just top rope. We all had that time where TRing was the most we could deal with. Most real climbers move on to the riskier side of this activities. However, I've met some "climbers" who've been climbing a while (say, over 5 years), read every article in the mags, have all the gear and can talk the talk, yet they don't lead.
So, at what point is a noob no loonger a noob, but just a poseur?
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jammer
Feb 16, 2005, 1:38 PM
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A poseur can be anyone who wants to impress someone. It's not a step in the chain of events ... even the best climbers have egos and enjoy it when others are impressed with their accomplishments.
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mshore
Feb 16, 2005, 1:40 PM
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Quite simple really........
1.) Climb for your own reasons or because it is simply fun and...
2.) Never talk shit.
First, you never know who is listening and second, you will never be accused of being a noob or a poser.
Who cares who is a, "real," climber and who isn't. I only care if I send the route, have fun, and get a good photo.
We do a ridiculous sport that contributes nothing to our exsistence. We might as well be ants except that we have the brain function to stop and smell the roses. So in the grand scheme of things - does it really matter to you? Is it that important?
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blueeyedclimber
Feb 16, 2005, 1:42 PM
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I don't have a problem with their choice unless they are passing themselves off as this risk-taking crazy man to "non-climbers" if all they do is tr in a gym. If you want to toprope exclusively, then make sure you represent yourself as such. I definitely think that some people call themselves a "climber" because they think it's cool. I certainly think climbing is cool, but I climb for myself. I am not totally happy unless I am on the sharp end, both trad and sport. Yet, I am not into Alpine. People find out I ma climber and they ask if I want to do Everest, and I say "NO f---in' way!"
Josh
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scubasnyder
Feb 16, 2005, 1:48 PM
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i dont understand why...
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jeep4evr
Feb 16, 2005, 2:37 PM
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Im a straight up hardcore deathdefying mutha on the sharp end doing insane 5.15c on my Metolius Simulator.
WUT U GOT??!?
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leinosaur
Feb 16, 2005, 2:56 PM
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In reply to: Who cares who is a, "real," climber and who isn't.
poseurs do!
right?
a noob becomes a poseur when he worries about whether he's a "real" climber or not according to other people's standards?
somethin' like that I guess
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wormly81
Feb 16, 2005, 3:01 PM
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I think the real question is why do you care so much about how other people represent their climbing. Someone can talk all the shit in the world but when your standing next to them its blatantly obvious whose got the skills/experiences to make them a true climber or not. Non climbers don't understand jack shit about our sport and never will so its not like someone can sit there and explain the intricacies of risk tolerance and different types of climbing.
Also, take a look at it from this perspective. No matter how hard you ever climb there will always be someone better than you. Do you think they are wondering things like "oh so if someone doesnt climb 5.12 trad by their 5th year then I think they have gone from newbie to poseur."
I can agree we all know someone who deserves no respect as a climber (with a couple thousand dollars of gear they cant use). Feel bad for them because they are living a lie and look like a fool to everyone that has any sort of perspective.
Jeff
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markc
Feb 16, 2005, 3:01 PM
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I think your working definitions are a bit different from mine.
I think of a poseur as someone who misrepresents himself. This can be done in a number of ways in relation to climbing. One would be the person who tags along with climbers once in a blue moon and still tells everyone he's a climber. A bit lame, but it doesn't really bother me. A friend of a friend did that with me. When I asked what sort of climbing he was into, if he had any trad experience, etc, all I recieved was a glazed look. Then he said he knew some really well-known European climbers. Um, okay...
Another would be someone who misrepresents his climbing abilities or experiences. This is far more subtle. Maybe they just bump up their redpoint level in conversation, spray about life-threatening situations they've put themselves in without realizing it, or plan goals they have no real means of accomplishing to impress others. This only bothers me when they won't shut up after a couple hours or if the person is putting me in danger.
If you just toprope, you're still a climber in my book. I respect people who find a level of risk they're willing to accept and don't give into any macho crap about what they should be doing. They are still climbing, just not leading. Ergo, they are a climber. If that person has a rack worthy of aid climbing and no desire to lead, then they may also be a poseur. If you represent yourself honestly at whatever level you currently occupy, you're never deserving of the poseur label. Methinks you're being a bit harsh.
mark
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mistertyler
Feb 16, 2005, 3:09 PM
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In reply to: Maybe it's just my personal preference, but I've always thought the real deal in rockclimbing is being out on the sharpend. Even in sportclimbing or bouldering, if you're risking more than a few feet (of rope stretch), you're pushing yourself. There's a distinct difference between a "rockclimber" and someone who goes rockclimbing. It's who you are versus an occassional pasttime. Understandable, there is a period in which all beginners just top rope. We all had that time where TRing was the most we could deal with. Most real climbers move on to the riskier side of this activities. However, I've met some "climbers" who've been climbing a while (say, over 5 years), read every article in the mags, have all the gear and can talk the talk, yet they don't lead. So, at what point is a noob no loonger a noob, but just a poseur?
If the father and breadwinner of a family with 2 infants chooses to only toprope because he doesn't want to risk serious consequences (personal and financial) to his family should something happen to him, is he a poseur? The answer is quite obvious, and to judge the "value" of the style in which someone chooses to pursue climbing is pointless.
There is no "real deal" in climbing. Climbing is an activity that people choose to do for many different reasons, and all of these reasons are personal.
Is road-biking poseurish because it's less risky than downhill? How about tennis? Let's create a new style of tennis where we put 20 rattlesnakes onto the court with the players. Will that make it better than the original form of tennis, which is less risky than the new? Same thing, same faulty logic.
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crackmd
Feb 16, 2005, 3:24 PM
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A few years back I took a job at a hospital at the same time as another "climber" took a similar job there. The hospital administrative types were intrigued by the idea of climbers working for them and wanted to write an article in the quarterly hospital newsletter about us. The other "climber" was very excited about this while I did not share in her excitement but was willing to go along. She came up to me one Tuesday at work and asked if the coming Saturday would work for me to drive 15 minutes out of town and be photographed hanging off the side of a 20-foot tall boulder (with no problems on it). Well, I had already made plans to go climbing in Yosemite (2-hrs away) and was not about to cancel them to get a few photos taken. Just then a light bulb went off in my head; why not come up to Yosemite and photograph us there? From the pained look on her face when I suggested this I knew she was not into it. In fact, it had been a few years since she had actually touched rock (real or plastic) and had no intention to restart at that time.
The story ends with me having a great day in Yosemite and her getting photographed and written about in the hospital newsletter. It seems like everyone involved was satisfied with how it turned out. This event however does exemplify to me the definition of "poser".
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dynosore
Feb 16, 2005, 3:29 PM
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bumblie wrote
In reply to: There's a distinct difference between a "rockclimber" and someone who goes rockclimbing
I rockclimb (not as often as many, I'm sure). So I'm a rockclimber. Get it?
Puffs chest up "I'm a real climber, nay, a real man, because I lead climb, and climb more often than you"
If this is what defines your life, I feel sorry for you.
According to your logic, the only "real" climbers are free soloists, because they take the maximum possible risk. Free soloing in lightning storms on a climb at least 3 grades harder than your best redpoint, blindfolded & one arm tied behind your back. All others are posers.
In reply to: Let's create a new style of tennis where we put 20 rattlesnakes onto the court with the players.
I might actually watch a set or 2 if they did this. Or polar bears in the ice skating rink :P
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bumblie
Feb 16, 2005, 4:17 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: So, at what point is a noob no loonger a noob, but just a poseur? If the father and breadwinner of a family with 2 infants chooses to only toprope because he doesn't want to risk serious consequences (personal and financial) to his family should something happen to him, is he a poseur? The answer is quite obvious, and to judge the "value" of the style in which someone chooses to pursue climbing is pointless. There is no "real deal" in climbing. Climbing is an activity that people choose to do for many different reasons, and all of these reasons are personal. Is road-biking poseurish because it's less risky than downhill? How about tennis? Let's create a new style of tennis where we put 20 rattlesnakes onto the court with the players. Will that make it better than the original form of tennis, which is less risky than the new? Same thing, same faulty logic.
You can dress it up anyway you like or provide obtuse analogies to try making a point, but we both know poseurism is real. :wink:
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mshore
Feb 16, 2005, 4:40 PM
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bumblie -
your profile says:
6750 posts in under 2 years. (post whore)
how in the world does someone have that much to say about climbing without spraying at some point?!
not being a dick but that is crazy! do you work on this website as a mod or something?
holy fucking wow!
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caughtinside
Feb 16, 2005, 5:06 PM
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I tend to agree with bumblie's perspective, but will add that I don't really care what they're doing. If you want to keep those training wheels on and only TR, you're the one who's missing out. Same is true for people who only boulder.
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cracklover
Feb 16, 2005, 5:11 PM
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Lemme tell you about my barber.
She's not the same kind of climber I am, but she can call herself whatever she likes. She climbs regularly in the gym, and when I said she should try getting outside sometime she made it clear that it wasn't for her. She and her crew like poking fun of each other as they fall off 5.8s, and giggling about boys. I'd like to be able to gush to her about my plans for this spring, but when I try she just looks at me like I'm crazy and says "I'd never do that." She has no interest in learning better technique, or even going to another gym with higher walls. She tried the other gym once, and won't go back - "The holds there roughed up my hands" She's happy with doing what she's doing.
Personally, I think that's just fine. Better, in fact, than someone who thinks "Well, I wanna be a climber, so I have to go outside, 'cause that's what climbers do" even though what they really like is climbing in the gym. Be honest with yourself and those around you, and if that means they don't think you're a "real" climber, fuck 'em.
GO
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bumblie
Feb 16, 2005, 5:13 PM
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Ah yes. The ad hominem attack. How trite. :roll:
A more accurate label would be "community post whore".
As far as any sprayage about climbing, how about finding a single post where I've "posed". Conjecture is so much easier than actually providing proof.
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abouttopeel
Feb 16, 2005, 5:17 PM
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In bumblie's defense (did I really just type that?), I don't believe that he said there was anything wrong with TRing. He simply asked the question of when someone who ONLY TR's but has all the other gear and presents themselves as an all around climber becomes a poseur.
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mistertyler
Feb 16, 2005, 5:20 PM
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In reply to: Ah yes. The ad hominem attack. How trite. :roll: A more accurate label would be "community post whore". As far as any sprayage about climbing, how about finding a single post where I've "posed". Conjecture is so much easier than actually providing proof.
Maybe this will clear things up for you, bumblie:
From Dictionary.com:
Poseur
-------
One who affects a particular attribute, attitude, or identity to impress or influence others.
The primary premise of your argument is that the style in which one chooses to climb affects whether or not they're a poseur. Your premise is wrong based on your misdefinition of the word "poseur", and your conclusion, therefore, is necessarily false. I even believe (and someone please correct me if I'm wrong) that your argument can be proven wrong mathematically.
Poseurism is real; it just has nothing to do with what you wrote in your original post.
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maybeone
Feb 16, 2005, 5:21 PM
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Of course there are posers! But it has nothing to do with how they climb. It's how they do everything else. No one is a poser when their all by themselves on the rock (even in the gym). I'm sure there will be 10 pages by the weekend because everybody has their opinion. But maybe the solution lies in keeping your opinion to yourself.
I envision an old-school "real rockclimber" visting his "poser" grandkid. He manages to stay awake through the puffery and boasts about grand gym conquests, is introduced to RC.com and stumbles across this thread. What I think is funny is that this guy might have all the solutions but doesn't really care about the problem. He loves his grandkid, poser or not, and will try to help enlighten him to keep him from being despised.
The saddest characteristic of "real rockclimbers" is their aggression towards others. Was everyone this mean to you when you started climbing? If so, I'm sorry about traumatic life. Go move to the crags and name your new routes after your imaginary friends. But I think most people had at least a few people who put up with their big mouth and small muscles and helped them get better. I am a youth minister and regularly introduce kids to climbing. I don't misrepresent and act like I invented it. And when they start talking tough after their first V1, I help them understand the bigger picture. I don't mock them and I don't gang up on them with people who climb better.
The next time you see a noob, ask them to climb with you and prevent them from becoming a poser. The next time you see a poser, ask them to climb with you and prevent them from getting beat down at the gym. But this "I climb harder and have more posts on RC.com than you" attitude will not help them change and will not get them to quit climbing. It will just make you hate them more.
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caughtinside
Feb 16, 2005, 5:26 PM
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Cracklover's post was interesting.
But I'd ask this: Is an interest sustainable, when there's no growth? She doesn't care about getting better, she doesn't want to go outside. She just wants the same thing, over and over. How long will this hold interest?
Maybe it's just personality types. I feel like I have to be moving forward in some direction. Either getting better, or climbing at a new area. Likewise, I'm in a challenging career. Sometimes its a pain, but it keeps me intellectually stimulated. I don't think I could cut hair for more than a few months. But that's just me.
Progress People! 8^)
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billcoe_
Feb 16, 2005, 5:50 PM
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In reply to: So, at what point is a noob no loonger a noob, but just a poseur?
Mshore answered this for me. However, being a poser may not be all bad, I know a guy who seems to prefer going to the bar with gear hanging off his pack, rather than climbing, and it's very effective in trolling for women.
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bumblie
Feb 16, 2005, 6:08 PM
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In reply to: The primary premise of your argument is that the style in which one chooses to climb affects whether or not they're a poseur.
In reply to: Your premise is wrong based on your misdefinition of the word "poseur"
In reply to: Poseurism is real; it just has nothing to do with what you wrote in your original post.
In reply to: I even believe (and someone please correct me if I'm wrong) that your argument can be proven wrong mathematically. |
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usmc_2tothetop
Feb 16, 2005, 6:24 PM
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I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who climb for different reasons. Rather it is for them or others.
There are lots of people who climb and don't give a dam about others. Just as long as they are happy climbing.
I'm sure there are no set words or standards as to what seperates a Noob and a Posuer. So this thread could generate thousands of opinions.
I would agree Bumblie that if someone were to have a full rack but they never lead. One might question why them climb. Who knows.
From the looks of it I would think that you would have a good idea of how to seperate the 2. When I meet other climbers and hikers I see different levels of passions in their eyes.
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bad_lil_kitty
Feb 16, 2005, 7:08 PM
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Sticks and stones may break my bones
But names will never hurt me....
;)
jk, BumBum
Perhaps at times I am a bit naive and/or just don't think about some things as much as others. I suppose growing up and having peers scribbling "you're weird but cool" on the yearly year book every freakn' year had something to do w/ my ability to phase people's comments about me out.
It's interesting though as I am often introduced as the Den Mother, and/or Socialite of my climbing group, it never really bothered me -- until someone made a comment that they never saw me climb - to which I replied, that's cause you've never climbed w/ me nor asked me to climb.
Grant it, I'm not hot shit but I can certainly pull my own and will learn to lead and hopefully through the support and my own confidence take the lead...
However, if others are 'deemed' posers and are just down right annoying - I just tend to stay away and not do the whole labeling thing. And hell, I like mountain biking but I am not terribly good at it - then again, I like trail biking/road but I'm not a hardcore fixed gear or ss gal. LOL Last year while at a stop (on a trail) I literally stood and fell over... LOL
Man, I think I just rambled again too much!
blk
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mistertyler
Feb 16, 2005, 7:42 PM
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In reply to: Perhaps you should re-read my initial post. :wink:
Or maybe you could re-write your initial post so that people can understand your opinion more clearly?
Posting specific examples of statements / representations these people have made that can be construed as being poseurish would help a lot. Your original post is jumbled with opinions (supposed premises) and vague accusations, and the result is an argument that appears to conclude that, if a climber does not lead or boulder, they are a poseur. (Illogical...)
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climbsomething
Feb 16, 2005, 8:14 PM
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I don't know if it makes you a full-on poseur, but it doesn't really help your credibility when you give a shit if somebody else is a "real climber."
DURRRRRRR
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bumblie
Feb 16, 2005, 8:18 PM
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Nice one, Hilary. :wink:
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bumblie
Feb 16, 2005, 8:19 PM
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Or is it Hillary? :oops:
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climbsomething
Feb 16, 2005, 8:29 PM
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In reply to: Or is it Hillary? :oops: |
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cracklover
Feb 16, 2005, 8:38 PM
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In reply to: Oooo, I bet you're a big fan of NUMB3RS :lol:
Off-topic aside: One of the writers for that show is a climber in LA. Used to climb at a fairly high level at the Gunks.
GO
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hosh
Feb 16, 2005, 8:41 PM
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I pose at p.13b. I climb at 5.10.
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mshore
Feb 16, 2005, 9:12 PM
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The guy who wrote NUMB#RS is NOT a REAL climber.
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bumblie
Feb 16, 2005, 9:26 PM
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In reply to: The guy who wrote NUMB#RS is NOT a REAL climber.
What a random statement.
If it wasn't random, perhaps you could explain what I failed to infer from it.
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bumblie
Feb 16, 2005, 9:39 PM
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Thanks to everyone who offered up humorous stories about poseurdom. Apparently, my initial post wasn't so poorly written that you couldn't understand my primary point. Kudos.
Secondary interests for starting this thread were to see if people would take offense by my merely bringing up the issue of poseurs and how they would try to redirect the topic. The responses were so predictable.
Toodles.
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mshore
Feb 16, 2005, 10:18 PM
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Relax - I never even saw the movie. I was JOKING.
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joebanks
Feb 16, 2005, 10:37 PM
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markc's words work for me. and to add a few of my own:
There's a difference between someone who has climbed rocks and a rock-climber; the former has tried it out but could take it or leave it, but the latter actively pursue's their passion for the sport.
Just as I've cut a few trees down but I wouldn't call myself a logger (not that there's anything wrong with that). If I strutted around in chaps with my saw and tried to pass myself off as a bad-ass tree-slayer to get the chicks then I'd be posing, and worthy of an ass-whoopin' from the real loggers.
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hosh
Feb 17, 2005, 1:12 AM
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I've some friends who pose at a p.6 level but climb like 5.11.
Then there are those friends who pose at p.14c but can only climb 5.6.
Yeah, I'm not sure which group of friends to hang with...
And then there's Nick, who's not a RC.com member but he follows these posts some times. He's a poser.
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hosh
Feb 17, 2005, 1:13 AM
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and I think he might be fat.
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thinksinpictures
Feb 17, 2005, 1:46 AM
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I just wanted to say that it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside to see so many folks spelling "poseur" correctly.
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ctardi
Feb 17, 2005, 4:05 AM
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Whoever wrote "NUMB#RS" isn't a real computer user, but instead just goes onto RC.COM and tryes to shut people up by using their words against them and mispelling them. :P
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happiegrrrl
Feb 17, 2005, 4:33 AM
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In reply to: Thanks to everyone who offered up humorous stories about poseurdom. Apparently, my initial post wasn't so poorly written that you couldn't understand my primary point. Kudos. Secondary interests for starting this thread were to see if people would take offense by my merely bringing up the issue of poseurs and how they would try to redirect the topic. The responses were so predictable. Toodles.
So....then, might one say that you are a post poseur? A poseur posting pithy, poorly pondered posts primarily to peave fellow posters?
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poomasta
Feb 17, 2005, 5:07 AM
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happiegrrrl, lol...well put
bumblie, i don't know what kind of "real" climber you are...but from your posting in this thread, you certainly seem to fall into the "intellectual poser" bucket. especially with that last post ("kudos" to you all for supplying me with such "predictable" responses...wtf?)
anyway, as a few folks here have hinted at, those people most concerned with calling out the "poseurs" are a more interesting subject: why do they feel the need to call out others on their suspected poseurdom? do they feel like someone else is robbing them of something? Stealing some of their thunder as a "true bad ass climber"? if that's the case, then i'd have to question what your true motivations are for climbing...
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bumblie
Feb 17, 2005, 1:38 PM
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It looks like a number of noobs felt the need to chime in (and shoot the messenger). I love how so many of you chastised me for saying things that I never said. :lol:
I didn't mean to rankle anyone's feathers. That's not true. Actually, I did mean to rankle. Is rankle a word? It's always interesting to watch the response whenever a "taboo" issue is brought up.
How many of you even know what my username means? :wink:
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jcshaggy
Feb 17, 2005, 2:03 PM
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What the hell is 'poseur'? Sounds like a health shake.
"Sorry sir, we do not have any poseurs in that flavour."
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dirtineye
Feb 17, 2005, 2:09 PM
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Maybe this will teach you not to venture out of the warm, loving embrace of Scummunity.
Poking poseurs proves possible pissy prognosticators proceed, possibly probing poor person picking on principle, perhaps provoking pretentious purges.
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livingtheedge
Feb 17, 2005, 2:40 PM
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Why does it matter?? Are you defending some sort of title??
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happiegrrrl
Feb 17, 2005, 2:50 PM
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In reply to: It looks like a number of noobs felt the need to chime in (and shoot the messenger)
Well, I am a n00b, as anyone here who's noticed my presence knows very well. And though I don't think I was taking pot shots at you for your "message," you are a bit of an easy target, bumblebee....Kind of like that little game at the county fair where you shoot the water stream through the clown face and watch the balloon swell until it explodes....
Looks like, from the sound of your second last post, at least one n00b gets to claim a cheap little prize for bustin' yer bubble......
In reply to: I didn't mean to rankle anyone's feathers. That's not true. Actually, I did mean to rankle. Is rankle a word?
Bum, at least you are hospitable enough to admit that which is so glaringly obvious to the rest of the forum..... and yes, rankle is a real word.
In reply to: It's always interesting to watch the response whenever a "taboo" issue is brought up.
I don't think noticing posers and their acts of posing is a taboo..... Though I've only been around a short while, I am pretty sure about that. I think it's just that your post seemed.... well....there was something rankling to most people about the tone you presented it in. As for myself, I couldn't help but wonder, when I first noticed it, if you weren't hoping to set up some sort of "predictable" responses, in order to use within another context; perhaps in another thread.....
But, I think the responses weren't what you were expecting, and I think that perhaps that rankled you...
In reply to: How many of you even know what my username means? :wink:
I do recall your explaining the term in that thread where everyone said where their usernames came from, but don't recall exactly what it was you said.... But, just from a general assumption, I would guess a bumblie is a term used by old-school brits to describe a floundering newb, sort of like a gumby, only less imbued with a sense of self-confident obnoxious grandiosity....Am I off? If so, would you kindly enlighten me. Or not; no doubt someone else will be more willing to answer the question.
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bumblie
Feb 17, 2005, 2:54 PM
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In reply to: and yes, rankle is a real word.
How about prattle?
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happiegrrrl
Feb 17, 2005, 2:59 PM
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oh, so witty....
Let's try to keep the thread on topic, lest it be wisked off to Community, though it is sort of funny to see that there is something about my posts that seems to irk the *f* out of you.... You rarely are able to restrain yourself from making some sort of comment. Maybe I'm one of them there poseurs you're so worried about, steppin' on yer ropes and such....
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dirtineye
Feb 17, 2005, 3:04 PM
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In reply to: oh, so witty.... Let's try to keep the thread on topic, lest it be wisked off to Community, though it is sort of funny to see that there is something about my posts that seems to irk the *f* out of you.... You rarely are able to restrain yourself from making some sort of comment. Maybe I'm one of them there poseurs you're so worried about, steppin' on yer ropes and such....
A chocolate covered doughnut says you have matching prana undies Snippiegrrrl! And I KNOW you'd love for the bumbler to rip em off with his teeth, as you two posed your way up runout 5.1 on top rope. The love between you two can't be denied.
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bad_lil_kitty
Feb 17, 2005, 3:12 PM
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Oh Bumbum!
Was my answer too, that predictable?
Bah, I'm a noob - I'd pose, if the price is right :shock: :shock: :shock:
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bumblie
Feb 17, 2005, 3:19 PM
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In reply to: Oh Bumbum! Was my answer too, that predictable? Bah, I'm a noob - I'd pose, if the price is right :shock: :shock: :shock:
I have nothing but love for you, my fine feline. Meow.
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blueeyedclimber
Feb 17, 2005, 3:22 PM
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In reply to: Poking poseurs proves possible pissy prognosticators proceed, possibly probing poor person picking on principle, perhaps provoking pretentious purges.
I just got spit all over my screen reading this!
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bumblie
Feb 17, 2005, 3:29 PM
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A fine piece of alliteration. :D
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dirtineye
Feb 17, 2005, 3:44 PM
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In reply to: I just got spit all over my screen reading this!
You should look at the quote me wrong game in scummunity, it's priceless. Be warned, mouth should be empty while reading. And thanks. Helping saliva explore new frontiers is part of my mission.
In reply to: A fine piece of alliteration. :D
And every word starts with, "P", too!
I was inspired by your one true love, Happiegrrrl, who also alliterates as anger alleviates.
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cockjet
Feb 17, 2005, 3:57 PM
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Man
I gotta say this is such an immature topic. Every sport is obviously comepetitive to a certain degree. But this just sounds to me like a bunch of grade 8 skateboarders bullying other kids in the skate park to reasure their fragile egos. I know some climbers that still talk like that at 25 yrs old + some of them are the best around. But maybee their egos got to their head or something. Some of them at the gym, or our at the local crag.
Where did the mature humble sportmanship go anyways?? Why be uptight??
If someone is talking shit or talking big... just ignore them. Its such a trivial issue
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dingus
Feb 17, 2005, 4:04 PM
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OK, you folks obviously need some answers here and I'm just the poser to do it (note the down home American spelling, all you people who use french are fucking posers, get it, french posers)...
The ideal for a climber is to BE CLIMBING. It doesn't matter if its lead, TR, bouldering, standing in aiders, hiking up a peak, its all climbing. You aren't a climbing poser when actually climbing.
However, any time one purposely acts in such a way as to leave the impression that one is a climber, when not actually climbing? THAT person is posing.
Examples:
Climbing decals on the back of the truck? POSER!
Carabiner hanging from the belt? POSER!
Spraying about climbing to your lunch mates? POSER!
Loud talking about how ridiculous Vertical Limit really is? POSER!
Standing in the gym telling the gymbies about climbing in the real world? POSER!
Talking gear with the clerk at REI? POSER!
Talking about your next big adventure with someone not directly involved in the trip? POSER!
See, we all have an equal opportunity to pose and we all pretty much do it... or we wouldn't be posting about it to a climbing forum on the internet which incidentally is 100% POSING!
We're all posers! Purposly fostering the impression of being a climber when one is not actually climbing is POSING.
Glad to put this one to bed, hehe. Now STFU.
Thank you.
Thankyouverymuch.
DMT
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cockjet
Feb 17, 2005, 4:12 PM
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ALL NON POSEURS SHOULD NOT REPLY IN THIS FORUM!!!! IF YOU'RE A REAL 'SERIOUS' CLIMBER, YOU WILL NOT EVEN PAY ATTENTION TO THIS TOPIC.
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bustloose
Feb 17, 2005, 4:15 PM
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the noob becomes the poseur when it gets a climbing related tattoo, like oh, say... a great big muskrat 'climbing' ice with 2 claw hammers and a severed rope...
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maybeone
Feb 17, 2005, 4:24 PM
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Mr. Jet and dingus,
I agree with you 100% and said a lot of that on page 2. That's what's funny about this topic, people can't not talk about it. 5 pages by Thursday...a little slow. But it is refreshing to see the topic stray towards love (bum&grrrrrl).
Look, I can't even shut up about it! I'll singlehandedly get this to 10 pages by the weekend!
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maybeone
Feb 17, 2005, 4:28 PM
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bustloose,
that's awesome! I have a tatoo of the Cliffhanger movie poster on my forearm so I can see it for inspiration when I'm pulling a tough roof at the gym. The noobs love it!
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happiegrrrl
Feb 17, 2005, 4:29 PM
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well, that's dirtineye for you. He's out chasing amber all around the community misquote thread as we speak, I mean text, er....pose.
Dingus - so stickers on your helmet...a pose(u)r or not a pose(u)r? That is a question(to keep the thread moving, anyway).
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dingus
Feb 17, 2005, 4:33 PM
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In reply to: Dingus - so stickers on your helmet...a pose(u)r or not a pose(u)r? That is a question(to keep the thread moving, anyway).
Oh, that is like POSING ONE OH ONE BABY. Climbing stickers on the helmet screams "I'm a poser!" like almost nothing else.
DMT
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happiegrrrl
Feb 17, 2005, 4:35 PM
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Well....what about a chiquita banana sticker? Please....don't make me peel off that!
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dirtineye
Feb 17, 2005, 4:36 PM
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In reply to: well, that's dirtineye for you. He's out chasing amber all around the community misquote thread as we speak, I mean text, er....pose.
Hey babe, I'd be chasing after you, if you could ever take your mind off the ever so suave and dashing apple of your eye, BUMBLIE!
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happiegrrrl
Feb 17, 2005, 4:37 PM
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What happened to the misquote thread - neadrly a half an hour from the last post....I thought you guys all got sent to the tar-pit corner.
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dirtineye
Feb 17, 2005, 4:38 PM
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In reply to: What happened to the misquote thread - neadrly a half an hour from the last post....I thought you guys all got sent to the tar-pit corner.
People really are afraid to post there hahaha. I was sure it would have 20 pages by now when it started. That is a great thread.
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happiegrrrl
Feb 17, 2005, 4:43 PM
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wankers....I'll go take a whack, then.
and dingus, I should have clarified - I didn't mean climbing stickers. Of course, how could anyone have known.... Anyway, my helmet has, the chiquita on the forehead, a smileyface on the back, a Patagonia one that a guy who works for them gave me, a UPC code, and a JTree one. Now the JTree one causes me a little conceren, because I was going to sticker my helmet with the places I've been, sort of like they used to do with steamer trunks back in the oceanliner daze...but if that makes me a pose(u)r...then I WON'T do it!
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bumblie
Feb 17, 2005, 4:50 PM
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At least five people on this thread have less than 20 posts. I feel a great sense of pride :wink: that so many noobs felt comfortable enough to chime in. It's all about stimulating discourse.
xoxoxo
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caughtinside
Feb 17, 2005, 4:58 PM
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In reply to: But, I think the responses weren't what you were expecting, and I think that perhaps that rankled you...
I'd disagree. The responses were totally predictable. The people who responded were predictable as well.
Bravo, Bumblie. 8^)
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dirtineye
Feb 17, 2005, 5:05 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: But, I think the responses weren't what you were expecting, and I think that perhaps that rankled you... I'd disagree. The responses were totally predictable. The people who responded were predictable as well. Bravo, Bumblie. 8^)
He would have gotten a better answer if he had Asked the N00b.
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dingus
Feb 17, 2005, 5:11 PM
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In reply to: and dingus, I should have clarified - I didn't mean climbing stickers. Of course, how could anyone have known.... Anyway, my helmet has, the chiquita on the forehead, a smileyface on the back, a Patagonia one that a guy who works for them gave me, a UPC code, and a JTree one.
Oh happiegirl you're not going to like this verdict...
That's REVERSE POSING of course, a considerable phenomenon in our sport.
Now don't get me wrong happiegirl, posing is posing and we're all posers here. And the JTree and Ratagonia stickers are dead giveaways anyway, so you're not a pure reverse poser, perhaps you're in a halfway house? Er, HAT???
But reverse posing is a particularly insideous form of posing and its practicioners deserving of a more harsh and penetrating laughter. (sorry)
See, its usually done by people who believe they are too cool to be posers, but who nevertheless must succumb to the relentless gravity of their posing needs. They are posing addicts who have already self-admitted their weakness but seek to hide their pitiful habit with a trick.
So they purposely distract the (in this case) viewer by using images not associated with their sport, a clever sleight of hand manner that calls attention to:
a: not only are they a climber but
b: they are a COOL climber.
My Bro Angus has a safety sticker on his helmet, with a red line drawn through it. A screaming cry for posing help!
Thank you
Thankyouverymuch
DMT
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dingus
Feb 17, 2005, 5:13 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: But, I think the responses weren't what you were expecting, and I think that perhaps that rankled you... I'd disagree. The responses were totally predictable. The people who responded were predictable as well. Bravo, Bumblie. 8^)
I predicted you would say this...
DMT
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bumblie
Feb 17, 2005, 5:16 PM
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In reply to: wankers....I'll go take a whack, then. and dingus, I should have clarified - I didn't mean climbing stickers. Of course, how could anyone have known.... Anyway, my helmet has, the chiquita on the forehead, a smileyface on the back, a Patagonia one that a guy who works for them gave me, a UPC code, and a JTree one. Now the JTree one causes me a little conceren, because I was going to sticker my helmet with the places I've been, sort of like they used to do with steamer trunks back in the oceanliner daze...but if that makes me a pose(u)r...then I WON'T do it!
Hopefully, you'll get the validation you so desparately seek. :(
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rendog
Feb 17, 2005, 5:20 PM
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In reply to: the noob becomes the poseur when it gets a climbing related tattoo, like oh, say... a great big muskrat 'climbing' ice with 2 claw hammers and a severed rope...
yeah people like that are total queer assed posers
same with those that talk smack about people
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the_pirate
Feb 17, 2005, 7:07 PM
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What the hell is this NUMB3RS / NUMB#RS show that you guys are in a huff about?
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maybeone
Feb 17, 2005, 7:38 PM
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In reply to: At least five people on this thread have less than 20 posts. I feel a great sense of pride :wink: that so many noobs felt comfortable enough to chime in. It's all about stimulating discourse.
I must say I'm very stimulated by all of your posts because we all know that online posts are the true measure of a climber. Thanks for showing us yet another way to look down on people. I'll make sure to post 30 times an hour to catch up to you. It won't leave any time for actual climbing but I need priorities, right?
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bumblie
Feb 17, 2005, 7:54 PM
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How is the climbing around Ann Arbor?
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kimmyt
Feb 17, 2005, 8:00 PM
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This thread makes me giggle.
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bumblie
Feb 17, 2005, 8:12 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: At least five people on this thread have less than 20 posts. I feel a great sense of pride :wink: that so many noobs felt comfortable enough to chime in. It's all about stimulating discourse. I must say I'm very stimulated by all of your posts because we all know that online posts are the true measure of a climber.
Must you?
Some of us consider post count to be irrelevant. :wink:
In reply to: Thanks for showing us yet another way to look down on people. I'll make sure to post 30 times an hour to catch up to you. It won't leave any time for actual climbing but I need priorities, right?
I do enjoy the smug manner in which you chastise me for my presumed snobbery. Is this a case of irony?
How is the climbing around Ann Arbor?
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maybeone
Feb 17, 2005, 8:19 PM
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bumblie,
You're the one who classified people with less than 20 posts as noobs. Does that make sense? Or did you mean noob in the sense of "I'm a noob at online chatting"?
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bumblie
Feb 17, 2005, 8:37 PM
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In reply to: bumblie, You're the one who classified people with less than 20 posts as noobs. Does that make sense? Or did you mean noob in the sense of "I'm a noob at online chatting"?
Nice catch. I should've been more specific. Then again, lack of specificity helped my intended double entendre, don't you think?
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maybeone
Feb 17, 2005, 8:38 PM
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Bumblie,
The climbing sucks in Ann Arbor. We've got a gym and home walls in the winter. Buildering and road trips in the summer. But I hardly see how that has any bearing on the topic of noobs or posers (I refuse to spell it differently). Where do I need to live to be a climber?
I think you read some of the other people's posts without wanting to learn anything from anybody. I learned some great stuff from you. Your profile is cool, your pictures are sweet, your daughters are adorable, and you know a lot about climbing! But this aggressive behavior is not really in line with the principles or lifestyle of rock climbing. And that is definitely not directed at you alone! People need to chill out and talk more about climbing and less about other people. Go back and read some of the old posts here, a lot of people agree with you about some things.
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maybeone
Feb 17, 2005, 8:50 PM
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I'm still trying to get 10 pages by the weekend.
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caughtinside
Feb 17, 2005, 8:53 PM
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In reply to: But this aggressive behavior is not really in line with the principles or lifestyle of rock climbing.
There are no principles or lifestyles to rockclimbing.
That's its appeal.
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bumblie
Feb 17, 2005, 9:09 PM
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Woohoo! Page 7. :D
One night at the gym, I was talking to a friend about a regular (indoor climber only), who was across the room. My friend said he didn't know that person. When I asked why, he said:
As far as I'm concerned, if they ain't climbing outside, THEY'RE PONDSCUM!
Was this bad?
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dingus
Feb 17, 2005, 10:45 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Oh happiegirl you're not going to like this verdict... Oh Dingus, I'm not unhappy with the verdict.....I can be a reverse poser or a halfway house residential poser in your book, and still feel good about myself. I always like what you have to say, and the style with which you say it.
That's why you're happiegirl I reckon.
I have a couple of old kitchen cabinets out in my garage I bought at a sale for 5 bucks. I smear all decals I get on their doors. Don't know why, never show em to anybody. Guess they serve my latent posing needs or something.
Maybe its art?
DMT
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happiegrrrl
Feb 17, 2005, 10:51 PM
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Definitely. Somewhere you got the idea to do it(a concept), and you've followed through, bringing thought into the 3 dimensional world. That's art.
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dirtineye
Feb 18, 2005, 12:53 AM
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In reply to: Definitely. Somewhere you got the idea to do it(a concept), and you've followed through, bringing thought into the 3 dimensional world. That's art.
By that definition, taking a shyte is art.
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dingus
Feb 18, 2005, 12:56 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Definitely. Somewhere you got the idea to do it(a concept), and you've followed through, bringing thought into the 3 dimensional world. That's art. By that definition, taking a shyte is art.
Hell, put it in a mason jar with some elephant piss and a nativity scene and get a grant from the national endowment!
DMT
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happiegrrrl
Feb 18, 2005, 2:41 AM
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:roll:
Obviously....you fall into the Charlie the Tuna category of connoisseur of good taste. And yes, I suppose that would be considered art, if you had the cojones to do the act and put it out there. Others have, as dingus plainly stated.
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dirtineye
Feb 18, 2005, 2:46 AM
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Luckily my 'career' as a starving artist ended before that sort of thing got popular.
Nice thread hijack though, huh?
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happiegrrrl
Feb 18, 2005, 2:52 AM
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yes, that does seem to have ocurred.....
Perhaps being a poseur (definitely have to use that spelling) could be considered performance art...hmmm?
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dirtineye
Feb 18, 2005, 2:55 AM
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In reply to: yes, that does seem to have ocurred..... Perhaps being a poseur (definitely have to use that spelling) could be considered performance art...hmmm?
Kindasorta.
I think you are demeaning one or the other by the association of the two, but I am not sure which one is being demeaned, LOL.
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happiegrrrl
Feb 18, 2005, 3:15 AM
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Well, I can tell you this much...It might be really very funny if someone *like* a drkodos(and I know you consider him a scourge) was able to affect a popular personality at this site that was just enough poseur to be pissing people off, yet able to *substantiate* enough credibilty(by use of other users, all completely fabricated, of course) in order to seem real. Someone with style, elan, adamant ethics of questionable authenticy, and a viscerally irritating sense of anti-charisma.
Personally, I don't know why anyone would bother...but I suppose for some, it is their calling to create a false sense of self.
(This portion of the post deleted, because...well, it was mean. Sorry to anyone who might have been hurt by it.
"Now that was just outright mean, happiegrrl," says my conscience.
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alderak
Feb 18, 2005, 3:24 AM
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we are all "posers".... where I come from your not a real climber until you have at least 7000 posts... bout 300 more to go, bumblie...
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dirtineye
Feb 18, 2005, 3:26 AM
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I don't think Kodos is a scourge, I just think he has a few stale fruit loops in his box. Kodos had only the power people gave him.
Same with Bumblie or any other troll.
They just want a reaction, and or attention. Don't give it to em.
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dingus
Feb 18, 2005, 4:08 AM
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Bumblie eats stale fruit loops?
I don't get it.
DMT
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happiegrrrl
Feb 18, 2005, 4:13 AM
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But I thought it was me who was the attention-seeker?
Fruit loops, now there was a breakfast cereal. I don't think it's possible for solid sugar to get stale, though.
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dirtineye
Feb 18, 2005, 4:18 AM
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In reply to: Bumblie eats stale fruit loops? I don't get it. DMT
now that you mention it, THAT may be his big problem!
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dirtineye
Feb 18, 2005, 4:19 AM
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In reply to: But I thought it was me who was the attention-seeker?
Nah, if oyu wanted attention you'd post semi nude pics of yourself all the time hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
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happiegrrrl
Feb 18, 2005, 4:22 AM
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I think it's only got to be a one-time offer to go down in the annals of history on this site.
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justen
Feb 18, 2005, 5:05 AM
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I get irritated at the glorification of the dirtbag climber.
It seems thats the ultimate characterization- climbers who sacrifice everything to the rock gods.
I have a wife, I'm in school, I have hobbies, and I have limited free time.
Rockclimbing is a HOBBY
a great hobby, that I love, but still a hobby.
(At least for me)
I didn't actually see this sentiment in this thread, but you see it alot in others- people calling others posers b/c they have gear but dont use it much, or heaven forbid- have less worn gear!
It is all a matter of priorities I guess.
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crag_shwagger
Feb 18, 2005, 5:11 AM
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Climbing isnt about proving anything to anyone...if a guy climbs for 5 years and still just TRs thats his call and not ours to ridicule.
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jcshaggy
Feb 18, 2005, 7:15 AM
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Do posers have specific ways of posing while they are at crags? -maybe something similar to yoga?
Anyway I'm off to a local crag this weekend where i intend to pose as much as possible.After that I'll have a nice cold beer because posing works up a thirst. Cheers.
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maybeone
Feb 18, 2005, 12:50 PM
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When it comes to gear, it's not about how often it's used or worn down. It's about the attitude that the accumulation of gear will make you seem like a better climber in the eyes of others.
A noob asks people what piece of gear they should buy after their shoes and harness. A poser doesn't, he goes out and buys a full rack, 2 ascenders, 4 ropes, an entire climbing "wardrobe", and a helmet. And this all before he gets a chalkbag or belay device!
It's just a silly attitude and maybe someone should pull him aside and talk to him before he goes back to the gym.
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bumblie
Feb 18, 2005, 12:58 PM
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In reply to: When it comes to gear, it's not about how often it's used or worn down. It's about the attitude that the accumulation of gear will make you seem like a better climber in the eyes of others. A noob asks people what piece of gear they should buy after their shoes and harness. A poser doesn't, he goes out and buys a full rack, 2 ascenders, 4 ropes, an entire climbing "wardrobe", and a helmet. And this all before he gets a chalkbag or belay device! It's just a silly attitude and maybe someone should pull him aside and talk to him before he goes back to the gym.
Welcome to the darkside! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
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cracklover
Feb 18, 2005, 1:00 PM
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Thanks BLK, for that link, you're my hero of the day.
I'd entitle it "Why webcams are a dangerous thing."
Bumblie, I bet you didn't anticipate that!
Anyway, thanks again BLK.
GO
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bumblie
Feb 18, 2005, 1:06 PM
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I'm so embarassed. :oops:
When I learned my private video had made its way onto the net, the webcam was history.
I'm not like that in real life!!! :x :evil: :? :oops: :cry: :cry:
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maybeone
Feb 18, 2005, 1:16 PM
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Bumblie I knew you'd say something like that! Dark Side, Hahahaha!!!!
I felt it come over me like a wave of warm GU (do they still make that stuff?)!!!
I tried to keep it true to my previous posts, though. Remember, back on page 2, I agreed that there were posers. I just want us to try to rehabilitate posers to keep the recidivism rates down.
Thanks for the PM.
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bumblie
Feb 18, 2005, 1:48 PM
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As I walked out the door this morning, my wife said:
"Thanks for the PMS"
Like I had anything to do with her foul mood. :roll:
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bad_lil_kitty
Feb 18, 2005, 4:41 PM
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In reply to: As I walked out the door this morning, my wife said: "Thanks for the PMS" Like I had anything to do with her foul mood. :roll:
Hehehehh, Bumbum, that's kinda funny! May I use that one next time I find myself in a relationship and in a foul mood?! :) Just think, when your cuties grow up - they too can learn this tactic... ;) Sometimes, ya' just can't win!!!
Yay, I am the hero of the day; thanks, Cracklover!!!! Yayyyyy, me!
Now, I have a question I am just dying to have answered. My nalgene bottle has stickers on it - specifically, a Hello Kitty, San Francisco; an In-n-Out Burger; and a Pochaco (one of HK's friends)... I don't have any climbing stickers on it.... Hm, maybe I am a Japanese cutesie school girl wanna be ;)
Hugs to all and keep the thread going; it's entertaining me --- your tax dollars at work :twisted:
love, blk
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jamescuth
Jun 8, 2005, 7:06 PM
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In reply to: Now, I have a question I am just dying to have answered. My nalgene bottle has stickers on it - specifically, a Hello Kitty, San Francisco; an In-n-Out Burger; and a Pochaco (one of HK's friends)... I don't have any climbing stickers on it.... Hm, maybe I am a Japanese cutesie school girl wanna be
sufferers of bearded trad warrior syndrome would assume that you were indeed a cutsie school girl wannabe (or worse, a "climbs for fun" sissy), tho they wouldnt mind if you wore your cutsie schoolgirl dress while giggling and asking them if you could "look at their nuts". even bearded trad warrior cant get everything they need from granite and blood alone...
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lifesstooshort
Jun 8, 2005, 9:22 PM
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What if you are in my situation, were you have been climbing for almost 2 years, and want to move on to "The riskier side of climbing," but you are too young for a job and can't afford gear, and too young to drive to the real rock even if you had the gear, and also didn't have anyone that lives in the same area code to climb with? After those 2 years should you be considered a poseur?
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