|
ubotch
Jun 24, 2005, 2:24 AM
Post #1 of 39
(6729 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 19, 2002
Posts: 191
|
I am currently working towards learning to aid climb and eventually doing a big wall. My dream however is to do a big wall solo.
My question is to those of you who have soloed a wall. How many walls did you do with a partner before you were comfortable enough to do one on your own? I know this would depend on a lot of things but I am just wanting to get an idea. Thanks for the tips.
|
|
|
|
|
climbinginchico
Jun 24, 2005, 3:35 AM
Post #2 of 39
(6729 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 24, 2004
Posts: 3032
|
tomorrow.
|
|
|
|
|
gunksgoer
Jun 24, 2005, 3:37 AM
Post #3 of 39
(6729 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 27, 2004
Posts: 1290
|
No. Dont wait. Go now.
|
|
|
|
|
noshoesnoshirt
Jun 24, 2005, 3:41 AM
Post #4 of 39
(6729 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 24, 2002
Posts: 440
|
As soon as you don't have to ask.
|
|
|
|
|
zozo
Jun 24, 2005, 3:46 AM
Post #5 of 39
(6729 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 3, 2004
Posts: 3431
|
Seems to me like a simple answer to this question could be given. Person says "Im working towards a goal and want to know from people who have been there". Im guessing the above three hav'nt even sniffed it yet.
|
|
|
|
|
petsfed
Jun 24, 2005, 4:17 AM
Post #6 of 39
(6729 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 25, 2002
Posts: 8599
|
Actually, the number of people who climb their first big wall solo is startling. Essentially, if you have the skills to climb a big wall, you probably have almost all of the necessary skills to solo one. That is, virtually all of the skills pertinent to big wall soloing are also pertinent to big wall climbing in general (eg self belay, solo hauling systems, etc). The axiom that I was raised on, at least as it pertains to big wall climbing, was to find a partner convenient but not vital. In other words, if you can't do all of it yourself, you have no place on the big stone.
|
|
|
|
|
phillipmikerevis
Jun 24, 2005, 4:27 AM
Post #7 of 39
(6729 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 11, 2004
Posts: 23
|
two things i have always been told come to mind
one is that
experience is something you don't get until just after you need it
the other is
the only way to learn how to swim is to jump in the deep end feet first
|
|
|
|
|
dangle
Jun 24, 2005, 5:04 AM
Post #8 of 39
(6729 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 2, 2004
Posts: 814
|
I'd done 5 big walls before I soloed one (and a winter FA too) but the whole truth is that I had also done more than 50 roped solo ascents of shorter aid routes working out the bugs and feeling comfortable with the differences between soloing and climbing with a partner.
I would strongly advise such practices for anyone who aspires to walls so that once on one they only have to deal with the added exposure and payload.
|
|
|
|
|
outsideguyzak
Jun 24, 2005, 5:08 AM
Post #9 of 39
(6729 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 24, 2005
Posts: 169
|
bigwall it saweeeeet!!!!!!!!!!!! do it asap!
|
|
|
|
|
onelung
Jun 24, 2005, 5:30 AM
Post #10 of 39
(6729 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 8, 2002
Posts: 436
|
Dood my 5th mutipitch climb of my life was a solo of the WFLT. Only other wall I had been on was a year earlier on Zodiac half climb half party, great fun...we bailed on the 9th pitch.
So my 1st wall was solo.
You do it Bro!
ALOHA,
bill
|
|
|
|
|
ricardol
Jun 24, 2005, 7:22 AM
Post #11 of 39
(6729 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 11, 2002
Posts: 1050
|
get out there .. practice -- learn to solo belay ..
and then pick a wall..
Soloing a big wall is easier in a few respects .. and alot harder in orders
Harder: YOU DO ALL THE WORK! -- nobody else hauls the pig, or cleans the route, or leads the scary pitch.
Easier: Management of gear is easier, since there is nobody else to work with. Management of the belay is easier, since its just you moving around.
|
|
|
|
|
glockaroo
Jun 24, 2005, 2:14 PM
Post #12 of 39
(6729 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 28, 2001
Posts: 149
|
In reply to: I'd done 5 big walls before I soloed one (and a winter FA too) but the whole truth is that I had also done more than 50 roped solo ascents of shorter aid routes working out the bugs and feeling comfortable with the differences between soloing and climbing with a partner. I would strongly advise such practices for anyone who aspires to walls so that once on one they only have to deal with the added exposure and payload.
Sage advice. Aid small stuff w/ a partner, then big stuff w/ a partner. Next solo small stuff, then big stuff. You certainly could solo big stuff right out of the gate, but the odds of you running into problems are a lot higher that way.
If you are shaky on the basics, you could make it just because nothing bad happened. If you are solid on the basics, you have a better chance of success (or survival) if things don't go as planned.
|
|
|
|
|
ubotch
Jun 24, 2005, 2:15 PM
Post #13 of 39
(6729 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 19, 2002
Posts: 191
|
Thanks for the tips. I am surprised/encouraged that some people actually do it for their first wall. Even though I don't plan on that, it is nice to know that if I have my systems down it wouldn't be completely crazy.
|
|
|
|
|
mikeehartley
Jun 24, 2005, 2:48 PM
Post #14 of 39
(6729 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 25, 2003
Posts: 118
|
The answer is always "it depends"...
What kind of a safety margin do you want to have?
How much "fun" do you want to have?
How much "dealing" are you willing to put up with?
And occasionally - how much damage are you willing to inflict upon the rock because you don't have the skills and confidence to climb cleanly?
Soloing a wall in theory may not involve many new skills over doing a wall with a partner but in practice it is way more involved. Unless you are exceptional, you are going to get MUCH more tired. More tired means "more dumber". If you don't have your systems really dialed somewhere you are going to start making dumb mistakes. Dumb mistakes don't necessarily mean you'll kill yourself (though its a possibility) but the "dealing" factor goes way up. Your ropes may snag 3/4 the way up a pitch because you weren't careful in stacking them, you may pull all of the slack out of the haul line so now you don't have enough rope for the 40' lower out, and on and on. The ways you can have a brain fart are limitless. Usually all of these things are surmountable, and some will say they build character, but I find they require lots of extra energy and cut into my fun. Fun is hard to come by on a solo but for me it lives mostly in the feeling that things are going smoothly, efficiently, and my ego is being stroked 'cause I ain't looking like a gumbie.
So I repeat, what kind of safety margin do you want on your side? How much idiotic dealing are you willing to put up with?
|
|
|
|
|
ricardol
Jun 24, 2005, 3:17 PM
Post #15 of 39
(6729 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 11, 2002
Posts: 1050
|
In reply to: Thanks for the tips. I am surprised/encouraged that some people actually do it for their first wall. Even though I don't plan on that, it is nice to know that if I have my systems down it wouldn't be completely crazy.
.. it is crazy to solo something for your first big wall.. specially somehting big --
.. .but it just so happens that some of us are crazy
|
|
|
|
|
dangle
Jun 24, 2005, 3:42 PM
Post #16 of 39
(6729 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 2, 2004
Posts: 814
|
Speaking of practicing being crazy;
when I lived in Boulder I used to repeatedly solo the Practice Roof on Castle Rock without shoes. My theory was that if it hurt to stand in aiders I would learn to go through the moves more smoothly and efficiently (?? come again) and somehow I think that some improvement in skill did come about. Whether or not the foot pain actually helped is open to conjecture.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
lambone
Jun 24, 2005, 4:06 PM
Post #18 of 39
(6729 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 1, 2003
Posts: 1399
|
In reply to: My question is to those of you who have soloed a wall. How many walls did you do with a partner before you were comfortable enough to do one on your own? I know this would depend on a lot of things but I am just wanting to get an idea. Thanks for the tips.
5 El Cap Routes first- then a solo of Zodiac.
Also some small walls and alot of soloing one day multi-pitch aid routes.
And stepping up to El Cap aloe was still scary as hell.
Work your way up man and be patient, it is an awesome goal to have and reach. The wall will be more fun with some experience under your belt.
|
|
|
|
|
t-dog
Deleted
Jun 24, 2005, 4:43 PM
Post #19 of 39
(6729 views)
Shortcut
Registered:
Posts:
|
first wall I did was WFLT solo.
Depending on how you want to look at it, I chose studying and learning about all the systems you use on the wall over trying to make sure a partner does the same and knows exactly when to do things so that both people don't die.
But then again, I hadn't hauled anything before I got there, yet that wasn't a problem cause I had a great mental picture of how things should look like to work. Some people however seem to still have issues setting up hauling systems after even a couple practice sessions.
So in my opinion, if you feel comfortable rigging things, and you don't have the SIU mentality (Suck It Up) then soloing a wall is no harder than doing one with a partner. Plus, by the time you're done, you've learned how to do absolutely everything you could from that wall. No "I led everything and never had to clean stuff".
Enjoy, and don't back off!
|
|
|
|
|
noshoesnoshirt
Jun 24, 2005, 5:10 PM
Post #20 of 39
(6729 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 24, 2002
Posts: 440
|
In reply to: Seems to me like a simple answer to this question could be given. Person says "Im working towards a goal and want to know from people who have been there". Im guessing the above three hav'nt even sniffed it yet.
Why would you guess that?
Seems like my answer was pretty dang simple; when you don't feel the need to ask whether you should be doing something, you probably feel ready.
|
|
|
|
|
maculated
Jun 24, 2005, 5:16 PM
Post #21 of 39
(6729 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 23, 2001
Posts: 6179
|
Noshoes,
Not neccessarily. Your philosophy can be likened to a pre-adolescent. They figure it all out by 13 and don't want to hear anything. It's not until after the big mistakes in life and age sets in, do they realize they didn't know everything nor the questions to ask to find out.
I'm "training" for a wall right now. I've got quite a few varied aid pitches under my belt now, but I'm not dialed, and every pitch teaches me to wait longer until I am . .. roofs, traverses, over hanging, slab, transition to free, organization, hauling . . . all of it.
If you want to bail, you can go when you think you know it all, but if you want to succeed, you can go when you know you don't.
ooooh, that was so deep. Ohm.
|
|
|
|
|
noshoesnoshirt
Jun 24, 2005, 5:31 PM
Post #22 of 39
(6729 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 24, 2002
Posts: 440
|
In reply to: Noshoes, Not neccessarily. Your philosophy can be likened to a pre-adolescent. They figure it all out by 13 and don't want to hear anything. It's not until after the big mistakes in life and age sets in, do they realize they didn't know everything nor the questions to ask to find out. I'm "training" for a wall right now. I've got quite a few varied aid pitches under my belt now, but I'm not dialed, and every pitch teaches me to wait longer until I am . .. roofs, traverses, over hanging, slab, transition to free, organization, hauling . . . all of it. If you want to bail, you can go when you think you know it all, but if you want to succeed, you can go when you know you don't. ooooh, that was so deep. Ohm.
Yes, but we learn from our mistakes.
If you feel ready, go for it. If you don't, practice more.
edited to add;
OK, a bit more.
Maculated, when are you going to try your solo? I'm guessing it's going to be when you feel ready. If you feel like you need to keep to keep asking others if you are ready, you know you're not.
Perhaps there should be a review board? Your comparison to pre-adolescent is especially apt. We have an agency that tests potential automobile drivers. Should we implement the same for soloing big walls?
|
|
|
|
|
t-dog
Deleted
Jun 24, 2005, 5:33 PM
Post #23 of 39
(6729 views)
Shortcut
Registered:
Posts:
|
In reply to: If you want to bail, you can go when you think you know it all, but if you want to succeed, you can go when you know you don't. ooooh, that was so deep. Ohm.
Waaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy deep!!!!!! Why can't I rate posts today???
Can you feel the zen-ness in the air?
|
|
|
|
|
asandh
Jun 24, 2005, 5:39 PM
Post #24 of 39
(6729 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 13, 2002
Posts: 788
|
:)
|
|
|
|
|
diesel___smoke
Jun 24, 2005, 6:16 PM
Post #25 of 39
(6729 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 9, 2003
Posts: 507
|
My third wall was solo - SFWC.
|
|
|
|
|
sick_climba
Jun 24, 2005, 6:20 PM
Post #26 of 39
(5316 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 1, 2005
Posts: 508
|
In reply to: I am currently working towards learning to aid climb and eventually doing a big wall. My dream however is to do a big wall on solo.
Climb on
Chris
|
|
|
|
|
cire
Jun 24, 2005, 7:15 PM
Post #27 of 39
(5316 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 21, 2003
Posts: 41
|
My first big wall was a solo of Space Shot in Zion. It was a lot of work and not really a great time. Though you feel you accomplish something in the end there is know one there to F@#$ with and have a good time with. Wall climbing to me is about hanging with the bros and having a good time. Try and pick a climb you can do in a day such as in Zion. Most classic wall climbs in Zion are short, go clean and are not to difficult C1-C3. Pick a good solo technique and practice a little on a short crack before you go. But know need to wait the only difference between having a partner and not, is having a belayer, which you can fabricate. Though if you have time to do a few wall climb before hand it will diff help speed up your tech. a little.
|
|
|
|
|
karlbaba
Jun 24, 2005, 9:03 PM
Post #28 of 39
(5316 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 10, 2002
Posts: 1159
|
My third and forth walls were solo, Prow in 1981 and Zodiac in 1982. I had tons of experience practicing on single pitch though.
Still the majority of folks fail on their first walls. It's creating quite a mess on trade routes as so many folks go up there and clog things up and flail. Make sure you know how to aid pitches in less than glacial times before you do a popular route.
Peace
Karl
|
|
|
|
|
ricardol
Jun 24, 2005, 10:15 PM
Post #29 of 39
(5316 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 11, 2002
Posts: 1050
|
-- aww helll -- i removed my post because it was b.s. ..
|
|
|
|
|
ricardol
Jun 24, 2005, 10:18 PM
Post #30 of 39
(5316 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 11, 2002
Posts: 1050
|
In reply to: In reply to: I am currently working towards learning to aid climb and eventually doing a big wall. My dream however is to do a big wall on solo. K bro I have never climbed much lesss soloed a big wall . But I did use to solo all the time. largest ever probaly 150 feet of a 5.5. My 2 cents deffinatly not until you completly tust your self. Best bet at acctualy surviving. No matter how much experiance you have if you don't trust your self the solo is not good! Good luck bro Climb on Chris
umm -- i dont think we're talking about free-soloing ..
we're talking about rope-solo big walls.
|
|
|
|
|
texplorer
Jun 24, 2005, 10:21 PM
Post #31 of 39
(5316 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 24, 2002
Posts: 199
|
Lots of good input and a few useless posts.
I say start with a wall or two with a partner and then see if soloing is still what you want to do.
I had done 9 walls before I soloed the Prow a few years back. No I'm going to finally solo el cap this summer.
Everybodys different in skill level, balls, and desire. Good luck and remember your not going to be "cool" all of a sudden if you do solo a wall so do it for fun and not bragging rights.
|
|
|
|
|
ubotch
Jun 24, 2005, 10:49 PM
Post #32 of 39
(5316 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 19, 2002
Posts: 191
|
The shorter walls in Zion would be a good idea although eventually I want the muli-day experience. Who knows, maybe I will change my mind once I do a couple of walls with a partner, but for now I doubt it.
Texplorer, don't worry I'm not doing it for the bragging rights. I'm just one of those introverted people that at times can have more fun by myself than with others. I'm sure that attempting something that huge for "impure" motives would just set me up to fail and I would be back on the ground before the first night.
In case anybody is actually wondering my original post is about roped soloing.
Thanks again for the advice and encouragement.
|
|
|
|
|
sick_climba
Jun 25, 2005, 3:57 AM
Post #33 of 39
(5316 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 1, 2005
Posts: 508
|
In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: I am currently working towards learning to aid climb and eventually doing a big wall. My dream however is to do a big wall on solo. K bro I have never climbed much lesss soloed a big wall . But I did use to solo all the time. largest ever probaly 150 feet of a 5.5. My 2 cents deffinatly not until you completly tust your self. Best bet at acctualy surviving. No matter how much experiance you have if you don't trust your self the solo is not good! Good luck bro Climb on Chris umm -- i dont think we're talking about free-soloing .. we're talking about rope-solo big walls. |
|
|
|
|
lambone
Jun 25, 2005, 4:29 AM
Post #34 of 39
(5316 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 1, 2003
Posts: 1399
|
I think soloing a wall is a bit overrated...
Seems to be the cool thing to do these days...and spray about it online.
Sure it is a big accomplishment and all, and it makes you feel pretty bitchen about yourself for a while...
...when your up there alone (for me at least) it tends to get a bit lonely, and it's easy to miss having good times with great partners and friends on a wall.
Never take a good partner for granted. For me soloing is something I resort to when I can't find one.
~bone
|
|
|
|
|
climbhigher
Jul 10, 2005, 8:31 PM
Post #35 of 39
(5316 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 6, 2002
Posts: 224
|
I am with Lambone. Soloing is great as while as very Humbling.
But, the partner thing is pretty bitching. Sharing such a great experience with someone is priceless.
I only soloed one short grade 5 route - Prodigal son. And got my ass handed to me trying to solo Tangerine Trip.
I am with the rule...If you gotta ask how to rope solo. You are not ready. And should climb more with a partner first.
|
|
|
|
|
lazide
Jul 10, 2005, 9:17 PM
Post #36 of 39
(5316 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 22, 2002
Posts: 225
|
First wall (first anything > 4 pitches), first route in yosemite, I did Mescalito solo (and never pulled out the pin rack). In late august/early september heat hell :P
That said, it wasn't 'fun' - it was basically all 'dealing' as a couple of posts have put it. Definitely helped build character and an appreciation for the finer points of suffering - and I was spraying for about 3 mo's afterwards ;)
I had all the big wall logistics part dialed (I had practiced hauling 450lbs of sandbags for months in the gym, cleaned overhung gym bolt ladders, etc.), and I had put up a single pitch aid climb in Canada that showed me I had what I needed from an aid leading perspective (C3+ R/X - quartzite hooking/cam hooking above a cleaver flake) . I had also been physically training for over a year and a half to be able to tolerate the sheer workage without losing it. (nothing like leading/cleaning/hauling (350lbs) 26 pitches all by yourself for over a week to get you worked).
The latest two walls I have attempted (Jesus built my hotrod on LT, and the Shield), I had to bail due to speed issues (team dynamics), so soloing doesn't give you a free 'hardman' pass. :P
|
|
|
|
|
epic_ed
Jul 10, 2005, 10:30 PM
Post #37 of 39
(5316 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 17, 2002
Posts: 4724
|
Lazide and Ricardo are good examples of what training and determination can do for your fisrt big wall solo attempt. These guys persevered despite lack of previous big wall summit experience. I'm a good example of how training and determination sometimes aren't quite enough. As for when will be a good time to give it a whirl? It's up to you, but Ricardo and Lazide are examples of two guys who have beaten the odds -- most people who attempt to solo a big wall without more experience end up bailing for a variety of reasons. You can stack the odds in your favor by working through a more gradual progression, and even then there's no guarantee you'll succeed. Or, you can go for it as soon as you feel you know just enough to keep from killing yourself.
I've been up to attempt to solo Zodiac three times now and haven't succeeded yet. I've learned a lot in those trips, though, and only have a few regrets. Over all, if I lived a lot closer to Yosemite I'd be up there as frequently as possible and going for it. For me, there has been no greater class room to learn about my systems, my skills, and my character than on the walls of granite in Yosemite. And, frankly, there's no place I'd rather be.
Get out and get some solo pitches under your belt and eventually you'll know when it's time.
Ed
|
|
|
|
|
far_east_climber
Jul 11, 2005, 3:46 AM
Post #38 of 39
(5316 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 30, 2003
Posts: 873
|
Lazide - did I happen to bump into you on my approach to the WFLT and your descent from Jesus? You were mentioning something about the route missing the pinaccle.
|
|
|
|
|
lazide
Jul 11, 2005, 5:03 PM
Post #39 of 39
(5316 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 22, 2002
Posts: 225
|
In reply to: Lazide - did I happen to bump into you on my approach to the WFLT and your descent from Jesus? You were mentioning something about the route missing the pinaccle.
Maybe? I was a little distracted by the misquotos, so I can't remember :P It was some trippy hooking on the loose flake in the empty dihedral, thats for sure.
Were you heading up to the WFLT with a group? (I remember this group of like 4 or 5 we met about 2/3 of the way down)
|
|
|
|
|
|
