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areuinclimber
Jun 29, 2005, 8:00 PM
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hey all,
i was thinking about a permanent way to mark my gear that doesnt create any snags (like all tapes do) and i remember that there is a stamp type thing you can buy for marking gear. a few of the used ovals i bought awhile ago had the previous owners initials stamped into the spine. where can i get a stamp with my initials?
does this compromise strength of the piece being stamped?
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tattooed_climber
Jun 30, 2005, 12:11 AM
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please say youre refering to INK...and not with a "stamp and hammer" stamp :x :roll: :shock:
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blawless
Jun 30, 2005, 12:28 AM
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10323&item=5008296044&rd=1
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clovissprout
Jun 30, 2005, 1:59 AM
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a little paranoid of people taking your gear? wow.
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socalbolter
Jun 30, 2005, 2:11 AM
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the ebay post above has the kind of stamps you're looking for.
used to be this was a common thing to do. i guess people are overly paranoid about stress fractures or the like nowdays.
aluminum is a soft enough metal that i can't see you doing any significant damage this way. back in my big wall and desert crack days (when mixing gear with folks in the parking lot was more common) i used to mark all my gear this way (cams, nuts, hexes, biners, etc.).
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areuinclimber
Jun 30, 2005, 2:30 AM
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thanks to the 2 people that actually responded with useful info (i really couldnt have expected more i guess, it is rc.com).
paranoid about my gear? no
one of the countless climbing drones with the camalot and alien combo? yes
i dont see how stamping my gear translates to paranoia. ive used tape, this (in situations i have encountered) makes flipping the carabiner around while clipped to a bolt, pair of shoes, or cam sling quite a hassle sometimes. this is not what i want when placing pro on a particularly hard climb or something. ive tried spray paint, and that litters the rock more than i care to admit with your choice color for the first week or so of climbing. but i believe if one actually read my original post carefully these things woulld become evident, oh well.
so, socalbolter, do you still do this or do you now think that it would create a safety issue?
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socalbolter
Jun 30, 2005, 2:35 AM
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i don't still do it, but not because i have second thoughts about doing it.
my gear is already stamped or otherwise marked and i'm not often in situations where i'm borrowing or loaning gear outside my normal circle of partners.
i would not think twice about doing it again. all it takes is a fairly firm blow with the hammer on the end of the stamp and the mark is made. you don't need to go overboard with repeated or brutal hammer blows.
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areuinclimber
Jun 30, 2005, 2:54 AM
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alright, thanks for the info, i need to do it because im forced to fish for partners in camp 4 usually, no steady partners as of yet for me.
although i have email a slew of manufacturers and when they reply i will post it up here for all to see.
i emailed black diamond, omega pacific, trango, dmm and wildcountry so im interested in if their views are opposed.
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socalbolter
Jun 30, 2005, 3:09 AM
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I would guess that none of the bigger manufacturers will come right out and say that it's OK to do, because in doing so they might open themselves up for liability in today's "sue-happy" world.
I'll be curious to see what replies you do get though so please post them when you get them.
thanks!
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tattooed_climber
Jun 30, 2005, 3:10 AM
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DON"T BE FUCKING STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.....always avoid putting your gear through that kind of stress....use ink/paint/tape/markers......if your gonna stamp them or take a dremel to it like a fucking retard you might as well just mail me your gear....
use some common sense!!!!!!!!!! :x
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poedoe
Jun 30, 2005, 3:23 AM
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Metal fatigue happens when you apply repeated force above a metals fatigue limit. What this means in a nutshell is that if you consistently put a large amount of force on something that can't handle that force, it is going to break (this is refered to as the metals "fatigue limit"). Alluminum is an interesting metal in that is does NOT have a fatigue limit. So repeated cycles of stress (force per unit area) of any magnitude on alluminum can eventully cause fatigue cracks.
Well that's the only objection I can think of as to why you shouldn't stamp a carabiner. With that said I might still climb on gear thats been stamped, but why put undue stress on the gear that is keeping you alive?
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socalbolter
Jun 30, 2005, 3:31 AM
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So, who wants to be the second person (I'll be the first) to point out to Mr. Tattoo (who claims in his profile to work in a machine shop) that most all of the gear on his rack and used in our sport (from bolt hangers to hooks, to nuts and hexes to cam lobes to biners to ...) are all stamped with identification numbers, strengths, etc. during their manufacture.
I'm sure the hydraulic presses used to do that stamping hit far harder than my mighty Yo Hammer.
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blawless
Jun 30, 2005, 4:39 AM
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I am fucking stupid.
I am a fucking retard.
I have no common sense.
But I am still alive.
And so are all of the many other climbers who stamp their gear.
Darn. At least I get my gear back, even if it is 6 months or a year later...
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slobmonster
Jun 30, 2005, 5:10 AM
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A pragmatic/valid reason to NOT stamp one's gear is that on most modern carabiners, you'll be hard-pressed to find a smooth uninterrupted surface large enough to stamp. And the lightest carabiners have any excess shaved away already, and thus you may not want to remove any more.
But on your ovals? Sure, heck yeah. A light tap should do it. Take a leaver biner, give it a few practice whacks.
I've used a Dremel-type tool to *lightly* engrave much of my gear. 'Biners with solid gates: on the inside of the gate. Wiregates: somewhere on the spine. Cams: on the part of the lobe that never touches rock (the squared edge).
Did I mention *lightly*? I'm talking just removing any anodization.
TC, no disrespect, but take it easy, man.
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areuinclimber
Jun 30, 2005, 5:15 AM
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tattooed_climber,
your one of those overly paranoid climbers huh? watch who your calling a fucking retard (alot of people in this case). would a fucking retard consult the masses before stamping gear (o wait, isnt that what this thread is about?) im not gonna belittle you in any way becuase im better than that but dont cry in this post any longer please. what does it matter to you if i die any how? i believe socalbolter has probably taken a whipper or 2 on his stamped gear same as blawless. the 6 USED (im dead already huh) BD neutrino's that i have are stamped and have been fallen on. the stamp doesnt go through half the spine or anything just a slight marking, light tapping stuff you know?
but i assume that shortly i will receive replies to the email's i sent out to various big names in the climbing industry (bd,trango,op,dmm,wc) concerning this issue. but it wont do any good as i am a fucking retard huh.
only on RC
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blawless
Jun 30, 2005, 5:21 AM
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Slobmonster, is that Mt. Tam in the background of your sig?
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crgwhe
Jun 30, 2005, 5:47 AM
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In reply to: DON"T BE f---ing STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.....always avoid putting your gear through that kind of stress....use ink/paint/tape/markers......if your gonna stamp them or take a dremel to it like a f---ing retard you might as well just mail me your gear.... use some common sense!!!!!!!!!! :x
If I had any inclination this type of marking would degrade the structural integrity leading to premature failure of ones gear, I wouldn’t have suggested it. I’m not a metallurgist nor have I been climbing near as long as you. So I might be wrong in the assumption that 3 initials carved into some biners would not lead to failure and the eventual climbers death. But I doubt it.
As a matter of fact, none of my gear is marked. But after reading your reply, I have decided to take care of that. Maybe I’ll dress up my initials with some rock patterns covering the entire surface of a few biners. Or maybe a few wilderness pictures with a squirrel hear and there using antiquing of multiple colors. I’m going to be a Dremel engraving retard tomorrow!
And if you didn’t observe the width of a nickel at the beginning of this reply, I’m betting you will soon.
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tattooed_climber
Jun 30, 2005, 5:54 AM
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In reply to: tattooed_climber, your one of those overly paranoid climbers huh? watch who your calling a f---ing retard (alot of people in this case). would a f---ing retard consult the masses before stamping gear (o wait, isnt that what this thread is about?) im not gonna belittle you in any way becuase im better than that but dont cry in this post any longer please. what does it matter to you if i die any how? i believe socalbolter has probably taken a whipper or 2 on his stamped gear same as blawless. the 6 USED (im dead already huh) BD neutrino's that i have are stamped and have been fallen on. the stamp doesnt go through half the spine or anything just a slight marking, light tapping stuff you know? but i assume that shortly i will receive replies to the email's i sent out to various big names in the climbing industry (bd,trango,op,dmm,wc) concerning this issue. but it wont do any good as i am a f---ing retard huh. only on RC
blah blah blah blah blah...
ok bud.....course, you think i'm over reactin ....blah blah....ok
i work with steel and metals for a living...i know what stampin is....and the consideration of this totally blows my mind....i think i'll tell this to my partner to give him a good laugh.....in fact, talkin to my engineers at work, stampin and bendin our metals can seriously fuck up shit if done wrong.(we deal with structural shit)..and i can't see any 'right" way with doing it to climbing gear...i thought this would be common sense....if how you file an ice axe pick effects its strength, sure as hell stamping a biner will fuck it up
you know what....i don't care....i freaked out cus i was trying to press the seriousness of the matter to you but. NOPE...i don't care.....i don;t care if you die now...my karma will be clean...in fact i encourage you to....(not to mention the possiblity that some of these replys are pob trolls)...so go out and stamp all your gear..your biners, nuts, axles of the cams, tents , everything.....like 6 times each just to be sure...and fall alot and fall often
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tattooed_climber
Jun 30, 2005, 6:07 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: DON"T BE f---ing STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.....always avoid putting your gear through that kind of stress....use ink/paint/tape/markers......if your gonna stamp them or take a dremel to it like a f---ing retard you might as well just mail me your gear.... use some common sense!!!!!!!!!! :x Got a nickel? Pick it up and look at it’s spine. About an hour ago, using my dremel at 35,000 rpm, I carved my full name into the spine of a nickel the same width as the one you are holding. Lets see a retard do that. If I had any inclinationblabh lbah blah blah blah, i don't know what i'm talking about, blah blah blah with a squirrel hear and there using antiquing of multiple colors. I’m going to65773737.. jibber jabber.....jibber jabber....the width of a nickel at the beginning of this reply, I’m betting you will soon.
.......and another thing.....that edge your creating form the dremal is a small nurl...and that'll snag fibers of your ropes and runners
secondly...it'll wear off or be rubbed/scatched off (the engraving that is if its that small)
how many rpm???....that'll translate pretty good into frequency of vibrations..........
you know what....you be a smartie....dremal on.....dremal your sport draws and atc and your tents for all i care now......
NATURAL SELECTION IS IN EFFECT!!!!!!!!!!!
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blawless
Jun 30, 2005, 6:13 AM
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You sure seem to post a lot for someone who doesn't care.
And what happened to the part that said "GO FUCK YOURSELF" at the end of your earlier post? I guess you must have calmed down.
I stamp bolt hangers with messages sometimes too! "CERTAIN DEATH!"
Every biner in this picture is stamped.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p.cgi?Detailed=21931
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tattooed_climber
Jun 30, 2005, 6:18 AM
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In reply to: You sure seem to post a lot for someone who doesn't care. And what happened to the part that said "GO f--- YOURSELF" at the end of your earlier post? I guess you must have calmed down. I stamp bolt hangers with messages sometimes too! "CERTAIN DEATH!" Every biner in this picture is stamped. http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p.cgi?Detailed=21931
stamp!....i don't care.....good for you.....i'm going to go to bed knowing that none of my gear has been stamped and the next climb i'm on i wouldn't have to worry about it......in my profession opinion, this is very stupid...as a fellow climber, i think its retarded........
and this flame war is boring because none of you have valid points....
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blawless
Jun 30, 2005, 6:22 AM
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I told you earlier that I am retarded. What seems to be the problem?
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areuinclimber
Jun 30, 2005, 2:04 PM
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blah blah blah blah blah...
ok bud.....course, you think i'm over reactin ....blah blah....ok
i work with steel and metals for a living...i know what stampin is....and the consideration of this totally blows my mind....i think i'll tell this to my partner to give him a good laugh.....in fact, talkin to my engineers at work, stampin and bendin our metals can seriously f--- up s--- if done wrong.(we deal with structural s---)..and i can't see any 'right" way with doing it to climbing gear...i thought this would be common sense....if how you file an ice axe pick effects its strength, sure as hell stamping a biner will f--- it up
you know what....i don't care....i freaked out cus i was trying to press the seriousness of the matter to you but. NOPE...i don't care.....i don;t care if you die now...my karma will be clean...in fact i encourage you to....(not to mention the possiblity that some of these replys are pob trolls)...so go out and stamp all your gear..your biners, nuts, axles of the cams, tents , everything.....like 6 times each just to be sure...and fall alot and fall often
so, please explain to me more about this "karma" thing and how it relates to the subject of my stamping gear? are you even buddhist? wait, are half the internet climbers on this site that use the word so freely even buddhist? do they even know the actual law of karma?
anyways back to the original post. i am one completely capable of swallowing my pride, these are the replies (as i recieve them, i will edit this post and post them):
DMM:
Hi Matt,
We don't recommend that you modify your carabiners in any way and this would
include stamping or marking the spine of the carabiner, tape is really the only
safe method, I know there's a label company that prints your name and number on
little stickers I don't have the contact details but a little bit of internet
research should find them,
Regards,
Nick
-----Original Message-----
From: matt watford [mailto]
Sent: 30 June 2005 03:51
To: Lisa George
Subject: metal stamps and your gear.
hello, i am considering using a hammer and metal stamp to engrave my
initials into the spine (or other area?) of my biners. the reason is that
tape gets in the way too often and spray paint is messy and litters the rock
(sadly, i know from experience). i own a few used carabiners with the
previous owners initials stamped into the inner spine of the carabiner.
does this in any way effect the load bearing strengh of the carabiner
rendering it unsafe for use?
thank you
just got an email from BD:
Matt-
Probably not a good idea...
2 things here:
1- You'll void any warranty that exists.
2- Different depths of engraving could produce hairline cracks and/or compromise the biner's strength.
Plenty of people do it, and get by just fine. But that is a decision you'll have to make on your own.
-j
Jason Horne
Black Diamond Equip. Ltd
Direct: 801-993-1301
Main: 801-278-5533
jason@bdel.com
DISCLAIMER: This message is personal opinion and may or may not reflect the opinion of Black Diamond Equipment Ltd.
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bill413
Jun 30, 2005, 3:19 PM
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So, it seems that the manufacturers agree with slobmonster & tatto'd.
It's not a good idea.
People do do it & get away with it.
You may be the one that doesn't.
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dirtineye
Jun 30, 2005, 3:26 PM
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I guess if two manufacturers are agin it, maybe Rabid Tattooed Climber of Canada ( they don't have nickles there BTW), hereafter referred to as RTCC, or, Captain Insaneo, Swinger of the Holy Unstamped Hexes, is right.
I'd love to have a nice way to mark gear, especially biners. I hate the tape mess/snaggin/retaping and all that other crap that goes with tape.
SOme peopel have spray painted, some have used nail polish, one guy uses a file.
Maybe the answer is niche marketing, where manufacturers personbalize biners for the discriminating (and rich) climber, AHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Don't laugh, it COULD happen.
Oh yeah, it's hereafter... Captain Insaneo, Keeper of the Holy Unstamped Hexes, I like that. Adam Sandler was good for something!
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scrappydoo
Jun 30, 2005, 4:13 PM
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Whoa-- kids, settle down.
Let me interject some reality and emprical evidence into this-- an by the looks of it, some maturity as well.
All of these posts have been based on personal opinions, or knee-jerk theories.
Lightly stamping a biner has NO negative effect on the strength of biners. I have personally pull-tested stamped and unstamped oval biners to failure, with no difference between breaking strengths. Nearly 100 biners have been pull-tested like this.
Several rescue groups do this on group gear to keep it from walking away.
Some of the super-light biners (like heliums) might lose strength if stamped for the reason posted previously (that there isn't a spot on the new I-beam style biners for a stamp)-- but this part is just conjecture, like every one of the other posts to this thread.
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greenketch
Jun 30, 2005, 4:23 PM
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I like to use Auto body touch-up paint. It seems a little more durable than nail polish and the little brush lets me put marks where they won't get scrubed off too quickly.
As to stamping most of the manufactures will not like it. Metalurgists will talk about stress risers. This is where a sharp edged impression causes a stress build up in continuously loaded parts. The key elements are sharp edges and continuous fluxuating stress. The worst case was several years ago when GM busted a bunch of drive shafts on cars. The cause was a tiny sharp dimple left from their hardness test (ironically part of their QA program). The Manufactures will likely que on the words sharp and loaded and say bad idea. In the real world stamps are probably not sharp edged enough and gear is probably not loaded in the right fashion to cause failure. As you can see I emphasized the parts that you need to decide on that the reps will decide against.
I climb on some stamped gear and some not. My own thoughts are that that there is many parts of climbing more dangerous than the stamps.
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areuinclimber
Jun 30, 2005, 4:26 PM
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here is a further clarification from DMM:
Hello Matt,
Thanks for your email.
Unfortunately we are not able to condone marking of the product. This is because
marking as described would cause stress raisers in the metal which could weaken
it. In addition the European Directive (Directive 89/686/EEC) for fall arrest
equipment states that the end user must not mark or alter the product.
In addition please don't use spray paint in the vicinity of textile products as
the solvent will definitely weaken the product.
We do not recommend the use of second hand equipment at all, especially if it
has been marked or altered.
We do not accept any liability for products that have been marked or altered in
any way.
Sorry about that,
regards,
Bill Cannock
Group Quality Assurance Manager
DMM Engineering/International Ltd.
(t)0044 1286 873 561
(f)0044 1286 871 228
bill@dmmwales.com
0120
so far it seems that the only thing coming through in these emails is the dodging of lawsuites. the only informative email is this last dmm one that i recieved, im still waiting on Omega pacific and trango....
so it turns out it is up to the climber and your just adding another variable to the whole danger equation if you will.
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csgambill
Jun 30, 2005, 4:51 PM
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I engrave all my gear, including slings and draws with a hacksaw, then by dipping all my slings and draws in a bucket of bleach. It gives them a real unique look. I can always tell my gear apart from everyone elses.
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areuinclimber
Jun 30, 2005, 5:38 PM
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i do believe the unoriginal shit talking stopped a while ago.....
dont post if you have nothing to contribute. the point of the thread is to discover if there is in fact damage to be done. i'll sum it up for you... its the climbers decision and this subject is an unsolvable debate. i've decided its not for me, the thread served its intended purpose. i will continue to post the replies from trango and OP as i get them (although the response is pretty much predictable).
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csgambill
Jun 30, 2005, 5:59 PM
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Seriously though, I do engrave all my gear with a special tool designed for the job. So far none of my partners who have used my gear, or I, have died in the process. I engrave my cams in non-load-bearing places and the nuts in places where the raised dimples will not snag my rope or runners. I'm a whole lot more worried about my gear pulling than failing because I engraved it. None of my partners who have used my gear worry because I have engraved it. Personally I don't care what you -TC in particular- think of my engraving habits. I'd probably never climb with you anyway. The fact that your vocabulary seems limited to profanity gets old pretty quickly, plus I'm allergic to Canadians.
Edited for spelling & grammar
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kubi
Jun 30, 2005, 6:19 PM
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In reply to: DON"T BE f---ing STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.....always avoid putting your gear through that kind of stress....use ink/paint/tape/markers......if your gonna stamp them or take a dremel to it like a f---ing retard you might as well just mail me your gear.... use some common sense!!!!!!!!!! :x
I assume you were joking, but in case you weren't: most (all?) of my older gear is stamped by the manufacturer. If the manufacturers felt it was safe to stamp gear, then it should be fine for this guy to stamp his gear, especially stuff like cams that have plenty of low load-bearing surfaces. Personally, I wouldn't do it, but to call the guy "f--ing STUPID!!!one!!!!" is over the line.
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montafoner
Jun 30, 2005, 6:58 PM
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I think it has been established (at least via opinions) that stamping carabiners may not be the best. Since modern light-weight carabiners have removed any excess material, there isn't enough material that could absorb deformation while stamping without altering it's original shape/design.
On the other hand, I see no reason to not stamp your nuts or cams. Cams could be stamped on the flat sides and nuts could be stamped on thier tops. In neither instance will the stamping get rubbed out through use nor compromise their integrity.
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arete
Jun 30, 2005, 7:00 PM
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Here's a little more actual empirical evidence (rather than EXTREMELY RUDE juvenile ranting) for those who may be considering stamping. I have stamped my gear for over 30 years. Not just biners, but cams, nuts, etc. In that time I have seen 2 pieces of my gear break -- both biners, and both in situation where tension from the rope rotated the biner so that the load fell on the gate, blowing the gate out -- something that will happen to almost any brand new unstamped biner with a high load.
One time I took a long fall onto an old original style #2 Wild Country friend with my name stamped on it. It was placed in a horizontal crack. The stem of the friend bent into about a 70 degree angle in the portion with my stamp in it without breaking and without any evidence of cracks.
I just put it right back on my lead rack (just kidding).
I use a steel stamp and one moderate blow from the hammer which does the trick without digging deep. Perhaps if someone could point out even one well documented instance of stamping contributing to gear failure (no rumor's or urban legends please), I would take comments from rude boys seriously.
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villageidiot
Jun 30, 2005, 7:14 PM
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How big of deal is biner breakage? Is this something that occurs often? I really can't see surviving the deceleration of a fall that would pull a biner apart?
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dirtineye
Jun 30, 2005, 7:59 PM
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The auto touchup paint sounds like a good idea, except for the drying time.
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poedoe
Jun 30, 2005, 11:48 PM
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Seriously I think a lot of peoples complaining and the "I'm right you're not", "No you're and idiot I do *something or other* for a job so I should know" conversations would stop if we would all take a simple physics course at our local community college.
If you really want to know how damaging stamping your gear/ falling on gear can be, you'll be able to figure it out. There's even equations for the fatigue of metals, alluminum included. Enroll today!
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mikewong
Jul 1, 2005, 1:11 AM
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I vaguely remember a thread like this on tradgirl.com (rec.climbing) with a reply from someone at BD. I couldn't relocate this thread for you but there are still some opinions under 'safety' and 'gear maintenance' at that website.
From what I remember, the gist was that aluminum is a ductile metal and cannot stress fracture which was confirmed by pull tests at BD. Furthermore the traceability stamps, engraving on BD biners are put on post production (similar to engraving).
That said, I do not engrave my biners as a personal preference since it is hard to see. Tape is easier to see when sorting gear from my partner's gear.
Just trying to be helpful, no flames please.
Mike
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kurplunk
Jul 1, 2005, 5:27 AM
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I've have not seen data on engraving strength loss for carabiners, but it's safer to just use another labeling method. It's not hard to believe that Aluminum crack propagation could possibly start at engraved or stamping locations at high stress areas.
I use a small dab of acrylic paint in an already engraved location. $3. The small paint dabs have lasted, and are reportedly safe for Nylon marking as well. As previously mentioned, it's useful on multiday climbs with large groups who all seem to shop at the same store. You know who you are.
Tape is just messy.
In reply to: ... aluminum is a ductile metal and cannot stress fracture which was confirmed by pull tests at BD. |
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poedoe
Jul 1, 2005, 5:05 PM
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There are equations that you can use to model metal fatigue. However they are complicated. I found something that you might find interesting (http://www.sarinfo.bc.ca/Library/Equipment/binerlif.eqp).
In the above link there is a mention of "Region 1." For more information about models of fatigue cracks, this might help (http://www.engineerstoolbox.com/doc/etb/mod/fm1/paris/paris_help.html)
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brianinslc
Jul 1, 2005, 6:41 PM
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I use a dremel tool to mark my gear. Usually just a skosh deeper than removing the anodize. Since I climb with a variety of partners, its helped sort gear at the end of the day.
Considering a small impression stamp (having a short last name, or, just going with 2 or 3 initials would make for an impression stamp at least as small as most julian date codes that are stamped into climbing gear).
One thing I've seen which looks kinda snappy, is to fill either the stamped impression or etched/ground part with fingernail polish, perhaps passion pink or the like. If the surface has been degreased well (super clean), fingernail polish holds on like nobodies bidness. Commonly used in some industries as torque striping, for instance...and, never seems to come off.
Call up a stamp maker in the local phonebook. I'd be curious if anyone has a price for a small metal stamp (anyone know what an optimum character size would be? I'd think 1/16" or thereabouts). Or, find out what the carabiner guys use to date code your biners (and cams too). Although, that size is pretty small.
Good luck,
Brian in SLC
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climbappalachia
Jul 1, 2005, 7:23 PM
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Gosh this thread has my head spinning!
Has anyone tried nail polish?
I find this works pretty well and actually lasts a good while.
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brianinslc
Jul 1, 2005, 7:34 PM
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In reply to: Has anyone tried nail polish?
From the Tradgirl website (back from when Chris worked at BD).
**********************
From: Chris Harmston
I have never heard of any instances with markers affecting structural aluminum. This doesn't mean it can't occur. What solvents are in these I have no idea. The potential is real I suspect.
I know that many many people have been using nail polish and paint to mark carabiners and other gear and I have never seen any indication that this leads to any type of corrosion or failure of the product.
Stamping. In general most of the lettering and numbering on product is done during the forging operations, before heat treat. These will not affect the strength of the product. It is possible that marking after heat treat by stamping numbers into the product could act as stress concentrators. I have never seen evidence of this and we have tested this out in some detail. Many products on the market have traceability stamps (look on the spine of BD carabiners for an example) and these are placed in the product in its finished state. I have seen many products that are more than 20 years old with hand stamped initials and have never seen any evidence that this weakened the product. Most of my partners us stamps in their gear.
I personally use paint (brown) and nail polish (purple). I hate tape because it does come off and once got stuck in a carabiner gate when I was using a partners biner making it stay open.
******************************************
Of course, no gear manufactorer is going to state, at least out loud, that its ok to modify their gear. They have no control over it at that point.
YMMV...but, I think a light touch and a little common sense go a long ways. If you impression stamp your hardware and its less deep than the date code, lot type, julian date that's stamped into a carabiner after its lot accepted, then, really, as long as its in a "fat" location, should be no problemo.
But again, YMMV...IMHO, yada yada...
Brian in SLC
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arete
Jul 14, 2005, 2:44 PM
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I've used red nail polish in my stamps as long as I've been stamping my gear. Usually I just slop it on. The polish outside the stamped letters quickly wears off during normal use and only the polish in the letters remains making them stand out nicely.
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kdchampion
Jul 14, 2005, 3:22 PM
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For a company to state that stamping their product will produce stress risers and possible crack initiation sites is NOT a bunch of legal crap. They a merely stating the FACTS of stamping your gear? Now will this lead to failure? obviously many people can vouch that it does not, but climbing knowing that you have made your biner weaker by stamping it.
My comment to those that use manufacturer markings as proof or reason to say stamping is ok. Stamping after heat treat is not that much different than stamping before heat treat other than the fact that your strain harden the part. However, the markings made by manufacturers are designed into the part, meaning that they take into account the stress concentrations at the root of the stamping. For this reason, you CAN'T use the manufacturer markings as proof.
Products with large liabilities are usually WAY WAY WAY over engineered which probably explains why nobody has seen a problem with biners breaking after stamping, but I wouldn't recommend it.
This post is coming from a Materials Engineering student in their senior year (already taken the tough classes and am taking specialized classes) just in case anyone is wondering.
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madrock
Aug 20, 2005, 4:35 AM
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NO
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anykineclimb
Aug 20, 2005, 4:53 AM
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Ya know its funny.
At the last Ouray Ice Festival, Conrad Anker was out there with a table letting people stamp their their gear. I asked him about it and he said ever bit of his gear is stamped. Even his ledges are stamped and he's been doing it for years with any failures.
As much as Conrad climbs and the stresses he puts on his gear made sense that he should know if its safe. So I went ahead a did a few pieces of gear with the 1/8" (I think) stamps. it turned out fine and I have ZERO worries about stress fractures. In fact it took very little effort to stamp the aluminium because its so soft. just a few very light taps. theres more force when I toss my rack down.
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