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8flood8
Jul 26, 2006, 5:31 AM
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i don't care about your damn searches!! i want some new opinions, if you don't want to give it, go away, sucka
ever see anyone pre-empt a troll like that? i'm the GeeDUBYA of this darndamndarn-here website, ya dig!?
I read jung's rereview....
so -- if you are still following me...thanks! hehe
If you look at another way of holding the gri-gri, it makes dishing slack just as easy as any trango in my opinion. (if you don't know what i'm talking about look over at 8a.nu, that is where i found this method)
and as sorry as you cinch lovers may feel, it doesn't die in that drop test.
Now then, i have* used the gri gri for roped soloing, and i still may do it again, i'd rather pay the 20 bucks for a gri-gri and have the added security and deal with the weight.
Now then, i have an old only been used 5 times cinch. if anyone wants to buy it or trade it for a new-like gri gri let me know!
otherwise Mr Maldaly.... this is a public plea, please upgrade my old cinch for free because honestly i never ever ever liked the old one and i bought it because i felt it was a true innovation. (in my opinion, nice try, but i just didn't like the hard catch or the rocket release -- so i basically wasted my money because i thought your idea was cool!) If you would hookabrothaup i would more than happily test it and see if i like the new one better (there by recommending to my friends)
anyway.. just a shot in the dark.
so what do you say... or naysay ??? is the new trango that good or what?
**edit**
added a poll and fixed some commas
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fracture
Jul 26, 2006, 3:52 PM
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Carlos: my brain hurts now. :P
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j_ung
Jul 26, 2006, 4:06 PM
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I can't speak for Mal and Trango, but if I could I might say something like, "Nice try." :P
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slacklinejoe
Jul 26, 2006, 9:54 PM
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Oooh, oooh if that works then how about I make a public plea that you send me your cinch for free?
Seriously though, if you don't dig the gear that's what eBay was made for. I haven't heard any comments on the new cinch that differ from Jung's write up. If you really want a new cinch drop the cash down for it, but don't post up the same thing when the titanium cinch comes out (that's what I'm waiting for myself).
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tisakson
Jul 26, 2006, 10:14 PM
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I heard through the climbing grapevine that a gal fell about 40 feet at a local crag here while leading on a Trango Cinch. She fell at the top and the cinch failed to stop her and she fell to the ground, open-wound fracture on her leg, but was concious and didn't break her neck. Anyway, don't know what happened but heard it was the Cinch.
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8flood8
Jul 26, 2006, 10:32 PM
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well... i'd like to hear more than hearsay..
yah i know...
honestly i was relieving a little ADD by posting on rc.com as a study break...
it was a sad public plea... but hey man... ... uh... you wanna buy my old cinch?! eheheheh
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shortys
Jul 26, 2006, 10:38 PM
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tisakson
Make sure you have all the facts before you lay blame.
Shes a close friend.
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waltersiebert
Jun 2, 2008, 11:08 PM
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Does anybody know here how to contact trango? We had some failures of the cinch (while used according to the manual) and we sent a question to trango (custserv@trango.com) but they dont answer.
Thank you very much
Walter
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reno
Jun 2, 2008, 11:44 PM
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waltersiebert wrote: Does anybody know here how to contact trango? We had some failures of the cinch (while used according to the manual) and we sent a question to trango (custserv@trango.com) but they dont answer. Thank you very much Walter
Send a PM to Malcolm Daly here on RC.com. His user name is maldaly, and his profile is here:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...gi?username=maldaly;
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dudemanbu
Jun 3, 2008, 12:45 AM
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waltersiebert wrote: Does anybody know here how to contact trango? We had some failures of the cinch (while used according to the manual) and we sent a question to trango (custserv@trango.com) but they dont answer. Thank you very much Walter
Did you have your hand on the brake line? If not, it was you that failed, not the cinch.
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maldaly
Jun 3, 2008, 1:06 AM
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Walter,
I want to hear about your Cinch "failures". Please PM me here, email me at mdaly@trango.com or call me at 303/909-6067.
Malcolm Daly, Founder
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crackers
Jun 3, 2008, 12:32 PM
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maldaly wrote: Please PM me here, email me at mdaly@trango.com or call me at 303/909-6067. Malcolm Daly, Founder
Customer service exemplar anybody?
I used a cinch for the first time about two weeks ago, and I have to say I thought it was great. It fed on my nano rope really well, locked up very nicely, and fed slack easily. After years of avoiding trying it, I've found a new piece of gear I really want. Good work Mal!
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snowboardercolo
Jun 3, 2008, 1:52 PM
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I have one and I really like it. I think if you watch the video that Mal stars in you will understand it a lot easier.
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billcoe_
Jun 3, 2008, 4:41 PM
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maldaly wrote: Walter, I want to hear about your Cinch "failures". ...... Malcolm Daly, Founder
Sorry - no failures, or even seen or heard of any outside of the fella above. Although I own the Edelrid Eddy, the Faders Sum and use my buddies Gri Gri all the time, the Cinch is my prefered device. I was cranked the other day when I couldn't find it (found it later in the bottom of a pile of gear), as it meant I would be forced to use one of the others.
I just want to say that if you are giving out free Cinches for any reason, (the new version, not the old which doesn't function as well) then consider me at the head of that line:-)
BTW, on a couple of occasions, while rapping a single line, it will refuse to budge till I take the weight off and slide it down a bit. I have noted that it has only happened on the same ancient, little fluffed, very dirty/caked with mud full sized old school 11mil Piece of crap rope. This rope was retired and given to a buddy like 6-7 years ago and he still uses it anyway for cleaning projects.
The Sum does the same thing on the same rope.
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no_email_entered
Jun 3, 2008, 5:16 PM
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yeh, i say BS or bad belayer or threaded wrong---
i was just jugging and single-line rapping with my cinch yesterday and its still da bomb. the redirect through a biner on ur leg loop makes the release like butter. butter i tell ya!!!
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WVUCLMBR
Jun 3, 2008, 5:20 PM
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I think I should warn all of you that my wife checks her rc.com account about once a month, and that she searches for Cinch threads. Then she hunts down anyone who says bad things about her Cinch and ninja's them. It's not pretty.
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waltersiebert
Jun 4, 2008, 8:54 PM
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Thank you all, I contacted Malcolm directly and I sent him the information.
Best regards,
Walter
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reno
Jun 4, 2008, 11:49 PM
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crackers wrote: maldaly wrote: Please PM me here, email me at mdaly@trango.com or call me at 303/909-6067. Malcolm Daly, Founder Customer service exemplar anybody?
Exemplar for most companies.... standard operating procedure for Malcolm and the gang at Trango.
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Alpine07
Jun 8, 2008, 3:18 AM
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WVUCLMBR wrote: I think I should warn all of you that my wife checks her rc.com account about once a month, and that she searches for Cinch threads. Then she hunts down anyone who says bad things about her Cinch and ninja's them. It's not pretty.
I can't say that I have ever seen anyone "Ninja'd." Demonstration anyone?
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GeneralBenson
Jun 10, 2008, 2:21 PM
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slacklinejoe wrote: Alpine07 wrote: I can't say that I have ever seen anyone "Ninja'd." Demonstration anyone?
I now know how I want to die.
"Tenchumaru's first arrow severed Haller's vocal cords, silencing him without hitting any of the major arteries or veins in the neck and without penetrating deeply enough to touch the spinal column," Skokie Police Department ballistics expert Ken Draper said. "An arrow was then fired into each of the seven henzoitoichi, or major nerve clusters, of Haller's body. Though the hits themselves were not fatal, the excruciating pain killed Haller within 10 seconds."
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tisakson
Jun 28, 2008, 3:51 PM
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Did I say I had "all the facts"? I think I made it clear that it was "heresay". Also, I think it would be nice to blame the device and not your climbing partner...geesh.
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billcoe_
Jun 29, 2008, 3:01 AM
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tisakson wrote: Did I say I had "all the facts"? I think I made it clear that it was "heresay". Also, I think it would be nice to blame the device and not your climbing partner...geesh.
Oh, well as long as any old bullshit heard second hand is acceptable, this one is much better. I "heard today:" that the Aliens which folks keep seeing, the lil grey ones with the big heads, is but one species of Alien on this planet. The "Other' Aliens, the big green ones, eats the first kind.
There ya go.
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reno
Jun 29, 2008, 4:40 AM
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tisakson wrote: Also, I think it would be nice to blame the device and not your climbing partner...geesh.
Actually, no, it wouldn't be nice. If the partner is to blame, it'd be nice to blame the partner than the device. Dishonesty serves no purpose.
People dropped while belayed with a Gri-Gri, Cinch, ATC, or Munter Hitch are dropped because the belayer failed to do his job. The device is not at fault (obviously, total mechanical failure, ala Alien cams, is a different issue.)
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sungam
Jun 29, 2008, 8:06 AM
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[quote "8flood8"]i'm the GeeDUBYA of this darndamndarn-here website, ya dig!?[/quote]
I don't know what's sadder. The fact that you are a complete fucking moron with the IQ of a skullfucked wildabeast, or that you claim to be the most ridiculous, sorry ass excuse for a world leader that ever dubbed himself fucktard (because after all, actions speak louder than words).
Go play with the barbie dolls, just don't stain the carpet.
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sungam
Jun 29, 2008, 9:53 AM
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WVUCLMBR wrote: I think I should warn all of you that my wife checks her rc.com account about once a month, and that she searches for Cinch threads. Then she hunts down anyone who says bad things about her Cinch and ninja's them. It's not pretty.
Man, you IS lucky!!!!
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tisakson
Jun 29, 2008, 10:01 PM
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Wow, just adding to the "Cinch" discussion, didn't know people would freak out about repeating what I had simply heard. I thought that adding "through the grapevine" would make it clear that it might not be entirely accurate, but I guess I will not contribute to discussions in these threads any further since anything that is said could be a fabrication of the "truth".
But again, I "heard" that someone fell while the belayer was using a Cinch....I don't know if it was the belay device or the belayer...who knows...I don't.
(This post was edited by tisakson on Jun 29, 2008, 10:03 PM)
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maldaly
Jun 29, 2008, 10:56 PM
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Somebody "fell" while being belayed with a Cinch?
God help me.
Mal
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reno
Jun 29, 2008, 11:05 PM
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tisakson wrote: But again, I "heard" that someone fell while the belayer was using a Cinch....I don't know if it was the belay device or the belayer...who knows...I don't.
So, after you first place the blame on the device, you later admit that you don't know all (any?) of the details of the event?
Your first post, in case you forgot:
In reply to: I heard through the climbing grapevine that a gal fell about 40 feet at a local crag here while leading on a Trango Cinch. She fell at the top and the cinch failed to stop her and she fell to the ground, open-wound fracture on her leg, but was concious and didn't break her neck. Anyway, don't know what happened but heard it was the Cinch.
Perhaps an apology to the makers of the Cinch for wrongful accusations is in order?
(This post was edited by reno on Jun 29, 2008, 11:06 PM)
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phillygoat
Jun 29, 2008, 11:56 PM
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maldaly wrote: Somebody "fell" while being belayed with a Cinch?
Just yesterday I fell four times on the same route while being belayed with a Cinch! You'd think I'd have learned my lesson...
BTW, Mal- Recently picked this gadget up and the GriGri hasn't been out since. Feeds and lowers like a dream! Nice work.
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sungam
Jun 30, 2008, 8:38 AM
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maldaly wrote: Somebody "fell" while being belayed with a Cinch? God help me. Mal 
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WVUCLMBR
Jun 30, 2008, 12:15 PM
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I fall all the time while being belayed by a Cinch. The thing really hasn't helped my climbing ability one bit.
Now somebody getting dropped while lowered I can believe. It takes a wee bit of practice to get used to. That being said my ninja Cinch master old lady has it down thanks to practice and some youtube videos with some old guy. She uses the biner in the leg loop tricky and her lowering is smoother that I can duplicate with any device.
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robbovius
Jun 30, 2008, 12:55 PM
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why, just this past weekend I was using my cinch for an extended top rope self belay, on some fricken 8.2 twinsy shoestring, and it worked mint, better than my grigri could have ever hoped to. 'twas perfection in metal.
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billcoe_
Jun 30, 2008, 3:27 PM
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robbovius wrote: why, just this past weekend I was using my cinch for an extended top rope self belay, on some fricken 8.2 twinsy shoestring, and it worked mint, better than my grigri could have ever hoped to. 'twas perfection in metal.
Not so obvious Rob, you are using it well outside of the design parameters and its not recommended for either Self belay and those sized ropes.
You're all over having backup knots I hope?
http://www.trango.com/pdfs/CinchFAQ.pdf
Take care
Bill
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kuperkutie
Jun 30, 2008, 3:32 PM
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IDK about ninja, but I'm super limber.
I LOVE my cinch! I've been using it for two years now, and remember it's not an AUTO locking device its and AUTO ASSISTING. So, if someone was dropped it was totally the belayer's fault. Malcom's video was very helpful to show me that I was using the device correctly and gave me more helpful tips. And yes, I use a backup biner on my leg loop for lowering. It not makes me feel more secure, but I feel it's makes it even safer. I love this device and I've used it on all types of ropes and haven't had any problems. 
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WVUCLMBR
Jun 30, 2008, 3:44 PM
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STFU n00b! 
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shockabuku
Jun 30, 2008, 3:49 PM
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Damn. You're gonna be wishin' you still had a couch so you have some where to sleep after she reads that.
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kuperkutie
Jun 30, 2008, 4:56 PM
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Nah, we have a spare bedroom! J/K! But I'm proud to be a nOOb! You have to start somewhere! And I am always trying to learn more and more. So far so good! I enjoy climbing a lot!
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robbovius
Jun 30, 2008, 5:32 PM
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billcoe_ wrote: robbovius wrote: why, just this past weekend I was using my cinch for an extended top rope self belay, on some fricken 8.2 twinsy shoestring, and it worked mint, better than my grigri could have ever hoped to. 'twas perfection in metal. Not so obvious Rob, you are using it well outside of the design parameters and its not recommended for either Self belay and those sized ropes.
yeah, I know. it worked great, almost like it was designed for it, even though it wasn't. the grigri wasn't recommended for self-belay either, originally, (including the infamous "death mod") but years of user experience have made those usages accepted. perhaps the cinch will have a similar life.
In reply to: You're all over having backup knots I hope?
no, not especially. they hinder actual climbing. my cinch has caught me on TR falls before, on other ropes as thin as 9.4. I tested its grip on the 8.2 before I started up the climb (5.5 slab) it gripped automatically and tightly without a problem.
I know some people think I don't, but really, I do, though maybe not to the levels of conservatism others might.
everyone differs in their personal level of risk aversion.
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WVUCLMBR
Jun 30, 2008, 5:39 PM
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So as we have all noticed....you say Trango or Cinch and Mal appears like a genie.....you say something that is a no-no and he keeps his mouth shut to keep your lawyers out of his pocket when you crater.
That being said I have used my Cinch to solo tr and have only ever had one problem due to body position when I fell.
We are all gonna die someday, I prefer to die in a firework accident, not in a crater wondering why my system failed.
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billcoe_
Jun 30, 2008, 7:40 PM
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WVUCLMBR wrote: So as we have all noticed....you say Trango or Cinch and Mal appears like a genie.....you say something that is a no-no and he keeps his mouth shut to keep your lawyers out of his pocket when you crater..
Not true, Malcolm has posted this warning so many times that he's probably tired of saying it OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN.
The scissor mechanism, which make the unit light, could easily become impared via your body and the zip you would take would be killer.
Now that being said, for convienance only - I use mine all the time as an ascender and a toprope belay. I am all over the use of backup knots, and keep the many warnings Malcolm has issued in mind at all times.
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maldaly
Jun 30, 2008, 9:14 PM
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Thx billcoe. I couldn't have said it better myself.
Mal
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billcoe_
Jun 30, 2008, 10:12 PM
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maldaly wrote: Thx billcoe. I couldn't have said it better myself. Mal
He he, I think you have, plenty of times and plenty of ways already. It's appreciated too.
I was just trying to pick up the slack to give you a break this time:-)
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waltersiebert
Dec 23, 2008, 2:57 PM
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Here:
http://forum.climbing.de/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=13222&start=60
is again an accident reproted:
Somebody fell after finishing a route in a climbing hall about 15 m before he was cought. The pattern seems to be always the same: The climber rests in the rope, releases weight and then lets go. In such a case there is a position where the rope runs straight through the device, no friction. Of course, as always, its the the users failure, but at least its good to know that this failure occurs when used according to the instructions.
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nthusiastj
Dec 23, 2008, 3:29 PM
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WVUCLMBR wrote: So as we have all noticed....you say Trango or Cinch and Mal appears like a genie.....you say something that is a no-no and he keeps his mouth shut to keep your lawyers out of his pocket when you crater. That being said I have used my Cinch to solo tr and have only ever had one problem due to body position when I fell. We are all gonna die someday, I prefer to die in a firework accident, not in a crater wondering why my system failed.
Actually the fact that Malcom posts here at all is a testament to how much he cares. You don't see any reps from other companies like BD, Petzl, or others taking the time to give advice and check how people are liking their products. Everyone else prints off the instruction manual and leaves it up to you.
If there are times he's quiet, he does have a business obligation to consider. There are times he can lend advice and help, and times when things may get too close to a legal line. ANY rational person who owned a comany would do the same. Especially on here.
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drfelatio
Dec 23, 2008, 3:53 PM
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waltersiebert wrote: Here: http://forum.climbing.de/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=13222&start=60 is again an accident reproted: Somebody fell after finishing a route in a climbing hall about 15 m before he was cought. The pattern seems to be always the same: The climber rests in the rope, releases weight and then lets go. In such a case there is a position where the rope runs straight through the device, no friction. Of course, as always, its the the users failure, but at least its good to know that this failure occurs when used according to the instructions.
That sounds to me like the belayer had pulled the lever to lower before the climber had fully weighted the rope and then lost control. That is not a failure of the device.
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rmsusa
Dec 23, 2008, 9:04 PM
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In reply to: ...You don't see any reps from other companies like BD, Petzl, or others taking the time to give advice and check how people are liking their products...
That's not true at all. I can think of a bunch of posts from people involved with other companies.
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adatesman
Dec 23, 2008, 9:41 PM
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asellers98
Dec 25, 2008, 11:24 AM
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I love my Trango Cinch due to its practical application for working routes. It is really a great product, thanks Mal!
I personally have seen two people dropped in gyms using a grigri, so this problem is not exclusive with the Cinch. My friend Cliff broke bones in both legs being dropped by a new climber lowering him with a Grigri at Summit Gym this year. If you do not know your gear, and do not practice with it in a safe environment before it counts, you could easily hurt someone.
The scariest experience with mine was learning how to lead climb with it. When there was tension on the rope midclimb, I really struggled to learn how to free it, even after watching the instructional video and reading the manual over and over. Getting real world practice is really the only way to learn. The climber got scared not being able to move (the cinch was locked down tight), which put more tension on the rope, and I had to use the lever to free it.
The cinch works best when you keep just enough slack to keep it from being taunt and engaged. Newer belayers start off keeping such a tight belay that you feel the pull a lot. The problem thus is not really a device issue as much as it is learning how to properly belay a climber. The fall distance between the two methods is less than a foot or two in most cases. So when you are belaying with the cinch, keep a small drop bend in the rope leading to the climber, and you will alleviate those scary instant midclimb grabs (such as on lead and moving above the bolt they just clipped - I like to remove the slack once they give the command clipped.). Put yourself in the leader's shoes, would you rather be trapped between transitions because it grabbed tight accidently by bad belay technique, or have a little more rope out and climbing without interference?
The Cinch is invaluable when WORKING a route. It holds the climber perfectly without slippage. Where in the gym, using a GRIGRI, I really struggle keeping it as tight. When you are working a route the few inches give really makes climber frustrated trying to work a section over and over. For this task, this device really makes it an extremely valuable item.
As a device to hand a new belayer so you feel safer - NOT A CHANCE unless you give them a course on how to use the device, practice catching and lowering, and to use it like you are using an ATC with the hand in the break position constantly. If you practice these, no matter how far back you open the lever, if you have the device in the break position, it is still stopped. But I wouldn't hand an untrained GRIGRI belayer a grigri either.
I say use this device as if it is an ATC, and the locking feature will be an asset you want to save arm strength.
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jakedatc
Dec 25, 2008, 2:15 PM
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on a project i'd rather have a little bit of slack than get pulled tight.
I've found that when i belay with my cinch to get the rope unstuck when either the climber has fallen and wants to go again or they climb too fast and it gets snagged up i just do a quick hop to add a little slack into the system and it loosens up enough to start feeding again. Also works when you lower someone and they don't pull enough slack down and rope stretch still keeps things taut and they are like uhh slaaaack as they are on their tip toes.
definitely need to practice and learn the subtle things before taking it to the rock. Love it though.. i use it 95% of the time now.
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asellers98
Dec 26, 2008, 5:51 AM
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When I mentioned working a route, I should have made it clearer. When you fall, keeping the climber as close to the last position really saves energy for working the troublespot, rather than having to climb further to get back to it. One inch slippage may seem like it is not that much, but when it is enough you miss that easy hold back to your project section, you start noticing why you love the cinch holding you instead.
Work it loose enough, then hold it tight with the cinch. With ATC or a grigri, it is easier to lose ground trying to hold your fall while you take a quick rest.
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jakedatc
Dec 26, 2008, 5:58 AM
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i know.. i was responding to this bit
In reply to: Put yourself in the leader's shoes, would you rather be trapped between transitions because it grabbed tight accidently by bad belay technique, or have a little more rope out and climbing without interference?
and what you just said sounds like TR project.. lead project if you fall you're going to be climbing rope to get back on so it doesn't matter if it slips really.. though when im hanging at a bolt i'd like to stay there. my gf has a Gri Gri now and even with 9.5 i haven't noticed it slipping yet.
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