I would imagine that its the same fall that I heard about this weekend. My friends stopped to help the climber's gf, call 911, etc. If it is the same accident then the climber was amazingly lucky.

I have some details, but I'd rather wait till someone with better info about the accident chimed it (seeing as I'm not even sure which wall my friends helped this girl at). I'd hate to spread false info.

Regardless, I hope every one is recovering well. Best wishes to the injured.

Two pieces failed one being an Alien broken in two after the fall

Anyhow, the Easter weekend seems to have a an injury theme itself because on Saturday we have ran into an Ontario climber (climber_grrl, was that you?) that recently recovered from an injury and began climbing again. I can't help but to think that it must bring back a lot of painful memories.

He also mentioned a GriGri and a lack of experience with its use. It seems to fit with 'holes in the gloves' description. I'm curious because it has happened to at least two of my friends on two separate occasions where the GriGri failed. Being a user of the device myself I'm worried about the overengineered gadget...

(So then, let me get this straight... there is no broken Alien anywhere in this story, right?)

The GriGri didnt fail. The belayer who was using it incorrectly failed.

It sounds like the grigri was threaded backwards? That seems like an easy mistake to make if you're not careful...

This is NOT an easy mistake......

gri gri's and Cinch's are for experienced belayers not Noobs..........

" despite what the rock gym's insurance companies want to believe."!!!!

He also mentioned a GriGri and a lack of experience with its use. It seems to fit with 'holes in the gloves' description. I'm curious because it has happened to at least two of my friends on two separate occasions where the GriGri failed.

The one that scares me the most is mounting the rope in reverse - it is so easy to get that wrong

It sounds like the grigri was threaded backwards? That seems like an easy mistake to make if you're not careful...

It isn't really EASY at all! You should be in the routine of checking the gri-gri is threaded correctly - give it a tug and test it before you climb. Your partner should be wanting to check your knot too if you do it every time it becomes habit. One of my partners and I have a rule that the climber owes a beer if they were about to start climbing before checking the belayer's set up...

Also keep in mind that those who are experienced have a responsibility to ensure that things are safe. This poor girl was new to climbing and perhaps was in over her head. She was not a "knob". I am not placing or taking away any blame - but when we are climbing we should all be concerned about safety and that our belayers are compedent. There are a lot of climbers that take this responsibilty way too lightly.

does anybody have info on the alien that "broke"? doesnt sounds very plausable to me seeing as how there would be major discussion about it if it really did happen... a cam that breaks is a little more important that 30 guys talking about putting the rope backwards in a gri gri..

I think the important thing is to get accurate information out to the community at large in a timely manner. It would be very interesting to know the manufacture date of the Alien and if it had been pull tested or not.

Good new. The climber is resting well. He is one VERY luck man. He wasn't wearing a helmet and managed somehow by miracle not to sustain a head injury or worse. No major breaks.. a few small fractures and a lot of bruising.

Was the fall on sauders crack or rock wars?

i just think it should be known that sauders crack is listed as a tr in rrg guidebooks because of poor rock quality.

Ok...rumor has it that a gri-gri threaded backwards has about 80% of the power of a regular Tub device...meaning the grip isn't as solkid in terms of friction, but it could still work as such as long as the braking position was properly applied?

does anybody have info on the alien that "broke"? doesnt sounds very plausable to me seeing as how there would be major discussion about it if it really did happen... a cam that breaks is a little more important that 30 guys talking about putting the rope backwards in a gri gri..

You're aware of the recall on certain Aliens, right?


if you read the post, it says beware of "post recall aliens" so i'm assuming his was a post recall alien.

Jay

Lets hope it wasn't a MFR defect.

There was indeed a BROKEN Alien involved in the Easter weekend accident on Souder's Crack. I would have posted earlier, but just recently received surgery to pin my wrist back together. Aside from being laid up for six months, I am very fortunate to have come away from the fall with only the injuries I have sustained. Many thanks go out to all that have helped me with this ordeal. As for the cam, it broke off right at the end if the stem, leaving the head and trigger assembly still set in the rock. It appears to me that the malfunction was due to a manuf. defect. This is being discussed with CCH. I would strongly advise all who are climbing on post recall aliens to be very careful.

I wonder what happens when you *overcrimp* a swage on an Alien stem?

Since then I gear up with a certain amount of paranoia which I nurture because, ironically, it keeps me safe.

As far as using a Gri Gri to belay i think climbers need to be more aware of who is belaying them and their experience.

There was indeed a BROKEN Alien involved in the Easter weekend accident on Souder's Crack...

I would strongly advise all who are climbing on post recall aliens to be very careful.

IHowever, it's important to note that cable-stemmed cams are vulnerable to some extent to sharp edges

Really? I don't recall ever having heard of the cable stem of a cam breaking because of a sharp edge (or any cause, for that matter).

Jay

Really? I don't recall ever having heard of the cable stem of a cam breaking because of a sharp edge (or any cause, for that matter).

Holy shit!

Does that mean that this is a known hazard?

Jay

Does that mean that this is a known hazard?

It makes sense that it could be. Just need to track down an actual incident, but the idea doesn't seem too far out; I've seen worn stems, isn't too hard to imagine them wearing more then getting whipped on over a harsh enough angle and being done.

I can't imagine it being a one time deal on an undamaged stem, however. Previous wear would have to have already been established.

Why? Please enlighten me. I put up an idea and would like to hear what you think.

Until you personally take an alien, put it over a sharp edge, tie into it with 10' of cord, and drop 180 lbs until it fails, I don't think you have anything to offer me. So spare me the sideline speculation.

Until you personally take an alien, put it over a sharp edge, tie into it with 10' of cord, and drop 180 lbs until it fails, I don't think you have anything to offer me. So spare me the sideline speculation.

I don't know why I'm bothering with this, since I don't own any Aliens and I don't intend to ever buy any under any circumstances, but I called CCH and asked what's up. Understand, I'm not acting as a journalist in this case, like I was during the original recall episode. I'm just curious to hear what's going on.

CCH was indeed contacted by, I assume, pinsandbones, in regard to the failure of his Alien. Said contact included pictures of the failed unit, which, apparently showed a broken cable stem, not a failed braze. So this failure is not the same as the recall failures. That MIGHT actually be bad news, since it may -- MAY -- point to an entirely different problem. However, it's important to note that cable-stemmed cams are vulnerable to some extent to sharp edges, of which it appears Souder's Crack has plenty. Without any additional information, I'll allow this failure might be due to that. To me, it's beginning to appear that this is not the result of any shortcoming on CCH's part.

Dave Waggoner also told me that he requested additional contact from the pinsandbones several days ago, but has not gotten it. Not sure where pinsandbones is, but he's not here either. Hey, pinandbones! Post up your pics, mate!

Lastly, I suggested to Waggoner that he post up with an update on this. I told him that, even if he has no additional information, a lot of people would appreciate some kind of proof that they care about what people think. It kinda seemed like that hadn't occurred to him. Waggoner's exact words were, "Yeah, I should probably go ahead and do that today."

Though the limited information available appears to vindicate CCH, at least in this particular incident, I'm not seeing a whole lot to make me change my mind about them and Aliens. Quality assurance aside, they still seem to be unaware of or indifferent to the legitimate fears of their customers. Instead of responding to worst-case scenarios, as I believe they should, they still seem to act (or not act as the case may be) based on what they hope is true.

Aliens remain the only cam on the market today above which I refuse to climb.

"First off, thanks to all for the positive thoughts. Second, sorry for the delay in getting back to the forum, I am not a regular, and have been very busy catching up with life (i.e. finishing a 16 credit semester without the use of my dominant hand/arm). Now, about the alien. I will attempt to answer many of the questions posted. It was not a broken stem due to an edge or any other strange action on the cam. It was a vertical placement and broke at the head. Where it broke, was well into the crack. It was NOT A RECALLED ALIEN. I was seventy feet up or so when I fell from just a few feet above the piece. i will be posting pictures of the alien, but not yet. Just know that it did not fail because of an edge or any other contortion. It was a good clean placement.

Thanks again for the concerns and I will post more when I have all of my facts together.
P&B "

Aliens remain the only cam on the market today above which I refuse to climb.

Jay, occasionally it really is ok to end a sentence with a preposition.

Jay

______________________________________________--

Hmmmm, at odds somewhat with the op's post:

I read through Injuries and Accidents once in a while cause often there are good breakdowns of accidents, and I prefer to learn about potential problems and solutions without bleeding too much...and I always hope that since there's no way to undo an accident, at least we can use the information to prevent repeated pain!

I'm reading this late (limited internet access) but hope there is still a chance for some useful breakdown and answers.

So far there's been tons of replies, discussion of gri-gris, aliens, novice belays etc...but no clear details about anything.

Early on, someone posted that they witnessed the scene--met the female belayer, quoted her, helped. They basically said the climber was cleaning the route after both had climbed. This would suggest the climber was being lowered while cleaning, meaning it is really unlikely the grigri was threaded backwards etc, and if a piece broke, it must've been a top anchoring piece (which creates an unlikely situation itself--I don't know any climber who would, after repeated climbs, lower off a single (and so sacrificed) alien to clean and move on.

If it was a leader fall (I guess from the eyewitness it would have been his second climb on the route) how did he deck?? At 70 feet up, surely he'd placed more pro than just the top alien which broke??!

Now we come to the question if the top placement (the alien) broke, so he fell a little further and harder than usual, how did the belayer fail to catch him with a grigri??

Maby I missed something, but I think it'd be helpful to know what happened, so those reading about the accident can perhaps save themselves from a similar fate!

thanks,
-p