Wow, intense...A little sad though too.

This is one weird movie
http://www.youtube.com/...ode=user&search=

They win.

They win for sure.... Speechless.

I don't think it is a competition. Kind of like feeling the wind on your face isn't a competition...

I don't think it is a competition. Kind of like feeling the wind on your face isn't a competition...

Gee no shit. No need to read into everything so much eh.

Typical American... Everything has to be optimized, competed for, and won...

Sad by who's standards? They all seemed pretty fucking stoked to me.

These are photos of Vladimir Teplyh's last climb in 1989. He was a well-known soloist in the Stolby Reserve in Siberia.
Before his last climb:

Climb begins:

Half-way up


Right before the fall:

Last moment of life:

Body carried away:

Apparently, it was a route he had done solo many times before. This time a flake of rock got stuck to his shoes and caused him to slip at the top of the route.

He belonged to a community of soloists, called 'stolbists'. There are perhaps 500 or so stolbists now. Climbing for sport started in that area in 1851. People die or get injured on Stolby on a regular basis. The oldest stolbist to die was a 74 year old woman with 50 or so year experience.

There is a story about Vladimir Teplyh (pictured above). A girl named Duska said that she would sleep with whoever sends a particularly difficult bouldering problem. Vladimir was in his 20-ties at that time. He was the only one to climb it. Duska kept her promise. This problem is since called 'Duska's cleft'.

Well, you may want to visit Stolby some time. They also solo, engage each other in drinking matches, sing with a guitar and enjoy other human pleasures. They'll probably challenge you to solo some easy route in the first time, since their huts are usually placed high in the middle of the cliffs, not unlike Anasazi dwellings.

Here are videos of a 13 year old kid soloing some of Vlad Teplyh's routes:

Teplyh's Rib (20 Mb each part):
http://www.stolby.ru/...eenko/bRebro1.00.avi
http://www.stolby.ru/...eenko/bRebro2.00.avi
http://www.stolby.ru/...eenko/bRebro3.00.avi
http://www.stolby.ru/...eenko/bRebro4.00.avi

Teplyh's Loop (each part is about 20 Mb):
http://www.stolby.ru/...enko/bPetlya1.00.avi
http://www.stolby.ru/...enko/bPetlya2.00.avi
http://www.stolby.ru/...enko/bPetlya3.00.avi
http://www.stolby.ru/...enko/bPetlya4.00.avi

Woman's Prizes
http://www.stolby.ru/...veenko/bPrizy.00.avi

Crazy route on Mitra:
http://www.stolby.ru/...nko/bMitraMad.00.avi

Some watercolors of Stolbists by Yuri Subborin:

http://www.stolby.ru/...06_Stolby_odejda.jpg
http://www.stolby.ru/...09_Stolby_odejda.jpg
http://www.stolby.ru/...13_Stolby_odejda.jpg
http://www.stolby.ru/...15_Stolby_odejda.jpg

Her friends husband is a manager of a park where thousands of people climb and many people die every year. I explained to her that a park here with that kind of record would be closed almost immediately.

explained to her that a park here with that kind of record would be closed almost immediately. She didn't understand this...she said that if a person want's to go out and do something dangerous that is their choice

Wow. Well that definitely proves they didn't loose the Cold War from lack of cajones!

what do boxes have to do with it?

I don't know, I think preaching safety until someone is old enough to make an informed decision about risking their life, is not in anyway shape or form intolerant.

You guys are praising a group of people that honor children that die on a regular basis as well as the parents that push them to the point of death. Hell why don't we encourage our kids to run across railway bridges cause I know I used to enjoy doing that as a child???

Someone posts a series of shots of a free soloer dying and the next post is "Excellent radical shit!!!" What the fuck??? Am I the only one that sees something wrong here? In the 2nd shot you can see 3 kids probably no more than 4 years old sitting about 10' from where that guy smashed his brains out. Stolby disgusts me, it turns me off of all free soloing, I felt sick seeing those photos, why not go to Iraq if death is so exciting for you. They're like fucking lemmings running off of cliffs cause everyone else is doing it.

I for one am thankfull I was raised in a society where safety is praised and my parents didn't encourage me to play russian roulette, hell I didn't need any encouragement. I can only imagine what would've happend if I grew up in Stolby. I'd probably be just another wasted life dead at 13 with a disgracefull "honorable" funeral and proud parents.

I guess I'm missing the whole "culture" or "tradition" here but I really don't see much difference between this community and the ones that drink the funny cool-aid to meet the space ship that's coming to pick them up after they leave this earthly body. How are these deaths "honorable" or "Excellent, radical shit"???

I don't know, I think preaching safety until someone is old enough to make an informed decision about risking their life, is not in anyway shape or form intolerant.

You guys are praising a group of people that honor children that die on a regular basis as well as the parents that push them to the point of death. Hell why don't we encourage our kids to run across railway bridges cause I know I used to enjoy doing that as a child???

Someone posts a series of shots of a free soloer dying and the next post is "Excellent radical shit!!!" What the fuck??? Am I the only one that sees something wrong here? In the 2nd shot you can see 3 kids probably no more than 4 years old sitting about 10' from where that guy smashed his brains out. Stolby disgusts me, it turns me off of all free soloing, I felt sick seeing those photos, why not go to Iraq if death is so exciting for you. They're like fucking lemmings running off of cliffs cause everyone else is doing it.

I for one am thankfull I was raised in a society where safety is praised and my parents didn't encourage me to play russian roulette, hell I didn't need any encouragement. I can only imagine what would've happend if I grew up in Stolby. I'd probably be just another wasted life dead at 13 with a disgracefull "honorable" funeral and proud parents.

I guess I'm missing the whole "culture" or "tradition" here but I really don't see much difference between this community and the ones that drink the funny cool-aid to meet the space ship that's coming to pick them up after they leave this earthly body. How are these deaths "honorable" or "Excellent, radical shit"???

Judging these people, their culture, tradition, history negatively when you know little about them is intolerant.

Their perception of reality may be different to yours in a radical way (haha) - but your closests friends perception of reality is different from yours too, just more subtle.

You think you're right because of your experience - which is fine, but judging those people in this way is arrogant. Thanks for the example.

If it's intolerant to be against having a group of 4 year olds get splattered by brain matter from a free soloist and have women and children die on a regular basis, then yes, yes I am

Cannibalism is steeped in history and culture too. Am I intolerant and arrogant to judge them? How is this any different than the psychos drinking cool-aid or eating each other?

Don't disagree with your point about the kids.
I happen to think the parents are arseholes too.
It's still arrogant to impose your values on other people - being right is irrelevant.

If it's intolerant to be against having a group of 4 year olds get splattered by brain matter from a free soloist and have women and children die on a regular basis, then yes, yes I am

If it's intolerant to be against having a group of 4 year olds get splattered by brain matter from a free soloist and have women and children die on a regular basis, then yes, yes I am

Cannibalism is steeped in history and culture too. Am I intolerant and arrogant to judge them? How is this any different than the psychos drinking cool-aid or eating each other?

Are you guys for real???

Are you guys for real???
...

Yes some people have life hard and live in conditions far more dangerous than a stolby soloist. The main difference there is that they don't have a choice!!! Stolby has a choice!!!

And is an 8 year old kid really mature enough to make a proper choice??? Are you against age limits for recruiting in the army? How is that different?

My point is, young kids do not understand consequences. How many times have you seen kids seriously burned playing with fire, or hands blown apart from playing with fireworks, hands shredded from sticking them in the blender, or skulls broken from climbing on things.

It was their choice but it is a parents responsibility to protect CHILDREN until they are old enough and wise enough to make an informed decision on their own. It is not up to the parent to decide whether or not they want to protect them, it is something that is human and required.

So you don't have any problem with an 8 year old being encouraged to free solo? What about a 4 year old? Do you have a line when it becomes wrong or anybody that wants to do anything has that right?? Do any of you have children of your own??? Do any of you stop them from doing anything extremely dangerous??? How many appendages do they have left???

GET IT????

My point is, young kids do not understand consequences. How many times have you seen kids seriously burned playing with fire, or hands blown apart from playing with fireworks, hands shredded from sticking them in the blender, or skulls broken from climbing on things.

It was their choice but it is a parents responsibility to protect CHILDREN until they are old enough and wise enough to make an informed decision on their own. It is not up to the parent to decide whether or not they want to protect them, it is something that is human and required.

So you don't have any problem with an 8 year old being encouraged to free solo? What about a 4 year old? Do you have a line when it becomes wrong or anybody that wants to do anything has that right?? Do any of you have children of your own??? Do any of you stop them from doing anything extremely dangerous??? How many appendages do they have left???

GET IT????

Isn't it great that we live in a world where an indvidual like yourself can voice his opinion. And whether that opinion is right or wrong, it is still yours to voice. However do not confuse the right to choose with the belief that everyone should belive and live like yourself. You obviously don't understand when it comes to difference in cultures. Until a certain culture decides what it is doing, is right, wrong or dangerous, it is not for you to judge. You were not raised with their beliefs.

You're actually defending suicide as an acceptable action???

We are all going to die so the argument that it is rude or unethical to impose your death on the loved ones in your life doesnt hold any water with me. The same goes for suicide, how could I expect my emotional feelings to weigh on someone's decision to end there life. I can't count the times I have heard people say that suicide is "the most selfish thing a person can do". Thats total B.S.

So there is no right and wrong except what that specific community believes? What if I told you I grew up in Stolby, would I then have a right to speak out against my own culture?? What about the Islamic extremists whose culture involves raping and killing a girl who was sex outside of marriage in order to restore honor to the family?? Do I have a right to speak out against that??? Stolby's culture kills innocent children before they are mature enough to realise what they are risking and I am against that. No, I don't believe that is either arrogant or ignorant. Not preaching just pissed at those who think it's cool after watching a video where a child dies.

The analogy with Africa was exactly that, an extreme example of a culture that no-one should respect. Sure it's extreme but if you don't respect that one, why should I respect this one? It's no different, they both involve needless death and suffering except this one involves climbing.

Who said it's cool? Did anyone on this post say it was cool to watch a child die.

Wow Basta that's a great story about your Grandpa,

No, Rape anywhere, regardless of culture, is wrong. It infringes upon a basic human freedom, that of choice in one's sexual partners. The example you cited, with the rapists contracting AIDS due to their own violation of another's basic human right, would be perhaps a harsh sort of justice, but it is (IMO) a justice in and of itself.

One's freedom to choose their own free association is one I would not infringe upon, until the aforementioned free-association infringes upon the rights of others.

The remainder of your arguments are weak, I think you are both very closed-minded and short sighted. Were you to be flailing in a river appearing to be drowning, knowing it was you, I would think twice before throwing you a rope. Even fish deserve to eat.

I've said enough. Please take your narrow-minded view of this world and take a long walk off a short pier.

Good day, sir.

*Plonk*

If you look back, the post right after the series of photos showing a soloist die was "Excellent, radical shit." Sorry, but it set me off and if you'd lost a friend climbing in the past you might be able to comprehend why I'm upset.

the notion that one persons actions or reactions should be governed by another persons expectations is appalling

I've travelled far more places and experienced far more cultures than you have son but thanks for the lecture. Who's preaching to who here?

I've travelled far more places and experienced far more cultures than you have son but thanks for the lecture. Who's preaching to who here?

I was constantly exposed to the faithful. My grandparents (grandad is a pastor) paid for me to go to Christian camp for 5 summers in a row (ages 6-11 I think), I was taken on mission trips and immersed in that world (believe me it is a world unto itself).

Now after all of that here I sit, a devout agnostic (for lack of a better word) without a hint of the holy spirit coursing through my veins. People have a choice, just because your indoctrinated from a young age doesnt mean you have to act as your expected to or have no control over your level of involvement in or commitment to an activity.

Basta, I would have thought that someone like yourself who has travelled to slightly more countries then myself would have seen enough shit in this world to realise that some cultures are completely fucked up. Why do they do it, because that's what has always been done. Rape, stonings, cannibalism, etc are completely unacceptable. I find this cultural traight to also be unacceptable and you jump all over me as being narrowminded and ignorant, why? because you disagree with it and are too narrowminded and ignorant to consider that maybe it isn't right.

Who am I to say what's right and wrong? Well I'm the same guy that has the ability to say that rape, stonings and cannibalism is wrong, as do you. It is my opinion, you don't have to agree with it but you also are showing your own ignorance and narrowmindedness for not accepting the possiblity that this act is perfectly acceptable and in no way wrong. We are both as set in our beliefs but just on opposite sides of the fence.

I love how you've now labled me as a biblethumper. I don't believe in God, nor have I ever travelled with a Church or as a missionary. The African trip my friend did was not affiliated with the church but was simply an Aid's mission. Thanks for the stereotype though, that's very open and accepting. By the way isn't condemning their religion a little narrowminded???

Basta, I would have thought that someone like yourself who has travelled to slightly more countries then myself would have seen enough shit in this world to realise that some cultures are completely fucked up. Why do they do it, because that's what has always been done. Rape, stonings, cannibalism, etc are completely unacceptable. I find this cultural traight to also be unacceptable and you jump all over me as being narrowminded and ignorant, why? because you disagree with it and are too narrowminded and ignorant to consider that maybe it isn't right.

Who am I to say what's right and wrong? Well I'm the same guy that has the ability to say that rape, stonings and cannibalism is wrong, as do you. It is my opinion, you don't have to agree with it but you also are showing your own ignorance and narrowmindedness for not accepting the possiblity that this act is perfectly acceptable and in no way wrong. We are both as set in our beliefs but just on opposite sides of the fence.

I love how you've now labled me as a biblethumper. I don't believe in God, nor have I ever travelled with a Church or as a missionary. The African trip my friend did was not affiliated with the church but was simply an Aid's mission. Thanks for the stereotype though, that's very open and accepting. By the way isn't condemning their religion a little narrowminded???

Anyway you look at if you don't follow the group either in your case or in Stolby's you are going to be looked down upon by many people and that pressure is felt at a very young age.

I mean, they know they will be thought less well of by family and friends if they choose NOT to climb) ... but their choice is heavily swayed by a "tradition" of reckless boldness

Woohoo!

Page-turn.

Oh, wrong thread.

Basta, I would have thought that someone like yourself who has travelled to slightly more countries then myself would have seen enough shit in this world to realise that some cultures are completely fucked up. Why do they do it, because that's what has always been done. Rape, stonings, cannibalism, etc are completely unacceptable. I find this cultural traight to also be unacceptable and you jump all over me as being narrowminded and ignorant, why? because you disagree with it and are too narrowminded and ignorant to consider that maybe it isn't right.

Who am I to say what's right and wrong? Well I'm the same guy that has the ability to say that rape, stonings and cannibalism is wrong, as do you. It is my opinion, you don't have to agree with it but you also are showing your own ignorance and narrowmindedness for not accepting the possiblity that this act is perfectly acceptable and in no way wrong. We are both as set in our beliefs but just on opposite sides of the fence.

I love how you've now labled me as a biblethumper. I don't believe in God, nor have I ever travelled with a Church or as a missionary. The African trip my friend did was not affiliated with the church but was simply an Aid's mission. Thanks for the stereotype though, that's very open and accepting. By the way isn't condemning their religion a little narrowminded???

If you look back, the post right after the series of photos showing a soloist die was "Excellent, radical shit." Sorry, but it set me off and if you'd lost a friend climbing in the past you might be able to comprehend why I'm upset.

As far as the post "Radical Excellent Shit," it was posted an hour after the series of photos showing a man die and right below that post. Whether he was refering to that post or the original one depicting a child die, really can't be determined by us but either way it doesn't matter and it made my gut turn as well.

Allow me to sum up the progress so far:

It's ok to write your opinion about the Stolbyists if you say positive things like they are "Radical", "Awesome" "Bad-Ass"

Whereas if you write opinions like "sad" or "endangering children", then you are "judging" their culture because these are negative.

So remember, positive judgments are ok, (and because they are positive it doesn't count as "judging") but negative judgments are not ok, because then that is "judging".

Just like its okay to make judgments about minorities if they're positive. Like "Their so good at sports!" or "They really are better dancers!" or, "They really know how to make money!"

Also, it's not okay for us to judge Stolby's culture, but it's ok for other countries to judge American culture, lawyers and Freedom.

And when something negative happens in another country, it's not a bad thing if it also happens in the United States. When the bad thing also happens in the US, then that negative event is no longer bad, but now "OK".

So follow these guidelines and you'll be just fine. Because you'll believe anything.

but now I wonder how you feel about cultures driving on the left side of the road

I feel very strongly about that.

DMT

This dingus man seems to have a good handle on this.

Some of the rest seem to have lost themselves in their own translation.

Like most typical Americans here who dissect everything to an anal degree but have a very shallow clue about the real world they live and function in.

Allow me to sum up the progress so far:

It's ok to write your opinion about the Stolbyists if you say positive things like they are "Radical", "Awesome" "Bad-Ass"

Whereas if you write opinions like "sad" or "endangering children", then you are "judging" their culture because these are negative.

So remember, positive judgments are ok, (and because they are positive it doesn't count as "judging") but negative judgments are not ok, because then that is "judging".

Just like its okay to make judgments about minorities if they're positive. Like "Their so good at sports!" or "They really are better dancers!" or, "They really know how to make money!"

Also, it's not okay for us to judge Stolby's culture, but it's ok for other countries to judge American culture, lawyers and Freedom.

And when something negative happens in another country, it's not a bad thing if it also happens in the United States. When the bad thing also happens in the US, then that negative event is no longer bad, but now "OK".

So follow these guidelines and you'll be just fine. Because you'll believe anything.

Climbing is great, but people that count on it to feel fulfilled and validated, have empty lives indeed.

I'm voting you off the island.

DMT

The tribe has spoken.

The whole glorifying death thing that seems to permeate climbing makes no sense to me. I try hard to stay alive when I climb. "At least he died doing something he loved" and "did you ever live?" is the height of stupidity and immaturity. Climbing is great, but people that count on it to feel fulfilled and validated, have empty lives indeed.

tahnks for putting my thoughts into words - well said

I think climbing glorifies life, but you can translate it however you will. Look at the evening news if you want to see a fine example of a culture that focuses on morbidity and and shallow values. That said, I too focus on safe climbing for the most part. I know what kind of climber I am, and I'd like to live to climb another day.

The craziest thing on the video was definitely the head first down-climbs. The rest looked like run-of-the-mill soloing.

tahnks for putting my thoughts into words - well said

You're off the island too damnit! Maybe the two of you can drink a Dew and ride a shark or something! DMT

"Yeah," replied the trad in my soul, 'we never felt so alive did we?'