The forum on the gri gri has lead me to a question who is to blame for the influx of noobs not being taught basics? Should we blame trainers or noobs? Are the trainers half-assing or are the cocky 5'7 scocer short muscle shirt climbers ignoreing?
This could be a potential problem with the new influx towards climbing.
I often trust my belay to people I just met and Its worked fine but now I must say it worries me to know that people are being taught wrong!

A common problem around my area is gyms are not willing to pay top dollar (relatively) for qualified belay instructors and you end up with teachers who many consider noobs themselves.

cocky 5'7 scocer short muscle shirt climbers ignoreing?
!

Personally I would rather have an inconvenience than a broke leg or arm or worse beacuse they didnt want to take the time to teach them properly you know?

Are the trainers half-assing or are the cocky 5'7 scocer short muscle shirt climbers ignoreing?

If climbing gyms don't collectively self-regulate, then they will eventually be subject to the same kind of regulation as amusement parks, and will probably become more amusement-park-like (gri-gris with floor anchors,etc.). Would be. . .interesting. . . for a forum like RC.com to play a role in industry self-regulation.

Is this English?

Add on to this: WTF is a Neb?

first that was taken from the gri gri forum and second I just cant sopell worth a damn typing with one hand and picture crop with other lol
new b - w = NEB

... this guy had 3ft+ of slack played out, and the roof was only 10 or so feet off the ground.

...
i make it to the ground alive...

I'm sorry, but I don't get the numbers here at all - was this a lead belay or a toprope? If it was a toprope it couldn't have been much of a roof. And seriously, a 10 foot high roof? Most boulder caves are that high, if not higher, and there's no rope to be seen. Hell the boulder cave in my dining room is 8 feet off the ground.

I would certainly hope you made it to the ground alive with your whopping ten foot fall.

first part was a roof sequence

Climbing indoors versus climbing outdoors is like sex with a condom versus sex without: they're both better than nothing, but when it comes down to it, there's no comparison!

I would like to propose an alternative simile...

Climbing indoors versus climbing outdoors is like sex without a partner versus sex with a partner.

Then what is free soloing? High-risk sex without a partner?

Jay

Nah, soloing is more akin to a three way BDSM free for all with no condoms, where the third party is the family dog.




Edited to add: It occurs to me, that I very well may be killfiled so I could have just wasted a beastiality reference. Do you still allow me audience Jay?

Yeah, but I never noticed that you use phrases like "allow me audience," so I might have to reconsider.

Jay

i gotta think that the gyms are regulated by there insurance compaines. how could an underwritter issue a policy for a dangerous business and let them do whatever they want. gotta be regulated by at least the insurance co. so, if they're doin it it's been given the ok IMHO

I don't think you can blame new people for being improperly taught. The burden is with the (hopefully) experienced instructor. Unlike the OP in the other thread, I stress that climbing is dangerous. I also stress that as the belayer you're entrusted with someone else's wellbeing. If you drive that home and someone is still ignoring instruction, he needs to go home.

Then what is free soloing? High-risk sex without a partner?

Jay

i think what ya gotta do is watch your potential belayer belay others first. if you like what she is doing then climb away but i would even then do an easy (no fall) route - watching her the whole time even give a surprise "fall" (close to the ground) at that point ya gotta feel fairly safe.

[ Just kinda reads along the lines of "women aren't good drivers, etc."

I gotta love how you automatically assign gender with a bad belayer as female. Your advice might have been a little more sound had you not implied gender one way or another. You know kinda like his/her or he/she. Just kinda reads along the lines of "women aren't good drivers, etc."

However, I do agree with the OP in that a lot of times newer climbers aren't being taught diligently in many cases therefore endangering themselves, the people they are climbing with and others around them.

One of the last times I was out, I watched the party next to me give a brief explanation of how to clean an anchor and then send this guy up who clearly hadn't digested what they were telling him to do. Having guided in the past, I chose to stay at the top of the route I was on (right next to him) and guide him through the process. He clearly had no idea what he was doing and had no business untying at the top of a route.

The forum on the gri gri has lead me to a question who is to blame for the influx of noobs not being taught basics? Should we blame trainers or noobs? Are the trainers half-assing climbers ignoreing their lead?
This could be a potential problem with the new influx towards climbing.
I often trust my belay to people I just met and Its worked fine but now I must say it worries me to know that people are being taught wrong!

most of the people i teach to clean do end up doing it this way. it seems like its really hard to explain it to someone less you got 2 bolts sitting in front of you.

when i learned i just went up. figured out what my goal was, made sure i was clipped into 2 bolts and started to untie. i had a course about anchor building before that though so i had a decent concept of knots, what will get me killed and what will let me live.

if he was learning to clean a trad route or something w/out bolts on the top... good luck on that one. prolly a good thing you were there =P