|
caddbitch
Oct 29, 2002, 5:09 PM
Post #1 of 32
(3764 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 25, 2002
Posts: 10
|
How much more can a climber weigh then the belayer weighs? Could my 105lb wife belay me who is near 220?
|
|
|
|
|
jorgle
Oct 29, 2002, 5:18 PM
Post #2 of 32
(3764 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 19, 2002
Posts: 236
|
Yes she can...but you would need to anchor her in, so that if you fell she would not be pulled up the wall.
|
|
|
|
|
tradguy
Oct 29, 2002, 5:19 PM
Post #3 of 32
(3764 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 22, 2002
Posts: 526
|
If you're top-roping and can anchor the belay to the ground or a tree or a boulder, then sure. You can also wrap the climbing line around the belay line a few times, putting some twists in the ropes up near the top anchor, and this will add friction and help keep your wife on the ground if you fall.
|
|
|
|
|
nbrown
Oct 29, 2002, 5:35 PM
Post #4 of 32
(3764 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2002
Posts: 328
|
I weigh around 145-155 and I have belayed people around 250. It shouldn't make a big difference as long as she is used to belaying.
|
|
|
|
|
boz84
Oct 29, 2002, 5:41 PM
Post #5 of 32
(3764 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 7, 2002
Posts: 473
|
Anchor her in and you'll have no problem.
Even in a perfect system, there is friction, and that's a good thing, cause friction is what stops you from decking out. This same friction greatly reduces the difference of weight between a climber and belayer. Even when the difference of weight is not substantial, if the belayer is not paying 100% attention, they may get pulled up a little in a fall.
|
|
|
|
|
paulc
Oct 29, 2002, 6:00 PM
Post #6 of 32
(3764 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 25, 2001
Posts: 464
|
I don't personally like the idea of the twists in the rope at the top anchor. But I guess that since the rope would rub on different spots as the climber climbed it might be ok. I still wouldn't do it though.
A bottom anchor set to take an upwards pull is a better idea.
Also note that the assumption in this thread is that you are talking about a TR belay.
Paul
|
|
|
|
|
grandwall
Oct 29, 2002, 6:18 PM
Post #7 of 32
(3764 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 28, 2002
Posts: 152
|
I (climber) weight 160 lbs and my belayer (experienced) weights around 110 lbs. I took a 30 foot fall (on lead) this summer and she was pulled 10 feet off the ground. She was pretty scared.
[ This Message was edited by: grandwall on 2002-10-29 10:20 ]
|
|
|
|
|
caddbitch
Oct 29, 2002, 6:29 PM
Post #8 of 32
(3764 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 25, 2002
Posts: 10
|
so in anchoring her should slack be left in the anchor line? I would imagine also youd want to keep the anchor line at or near the angle of the climb, as so not to more or less sling shot her into the air, not that that couldnt be funny but I'd think not very safe. Also with anchoring a belayer wouldn't that cause a potential for zippering (maybe not the right term)your line in the event of a big fall? And would you want the anchor line attached to the rear of her harnass so she doesnt spin a quick 90 degrees and cause the line to slip or would the line still hold so long as its being held at a break position?
|
|
|
|
|
grandwall
Oct 29, 2002, 6:40 PM
Post #9 of 32
(3764 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 28, 2002
Posts: 152
|
I would anchor with minimal slack.
Yes, if the belayer is anchored too far from the base of the climb it will cause zippering if the climber is leading. This is very bad. If you're talking about TRing, the anchor should be fine. I'm not sure if it's okay to anchor to the back loop of the harness. I only use the front. If you are not 100% sure about this it would be a good idea to get someone to show you how to properly set anchors.
|
|
|
|
|
monkeyarm
Oct 29, 2002, 6:45 PM
Post #10 of 32
(3764 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 11, 2002
Posts: 323
|
You would not want slack in the anchor line because it would shockload the system in event of a fall and increase the chance that the anchor would fail. Also you want to have both the anchor and the belay device clipped into the front of your harness, because if it is not when the climber falls it creates a twisting motion on the belayer as teh harness tries to align in a straight line from the anchor through the harness to the rope. This can cause the belayers feet to swing our from under him/her.
|
|
|
|
|
paulc
Oct 29, 2002, 6:46 PM
Post #11 of 32
(3764 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 25, 2001
Posts: 464
|
Don't use the back loop unless you know that is rated for it. It should say in the doco that came with it. Most back loops are not full strength and should only be used for non life essential items, like a trail line, chalkbag, etc.
Sounds like you should take a TR anchors course.
Paul
|
|
|
|
|
caddbitch
Oct 29, 2002, 7:10 PM
Post #12 of 32
(3764 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 25, 2002
Posts: 10
|
I need to take a few classes I'll admit to that I am just trying to start climbing and mostly easy worries of the wife being able to do it with me she has a fear of not being able to control my fall so before we ever try I just want to get as much info as I can to easy her worry, and get me on the rocks sooner. All you have been a big help this message board rocks and RC.com kicks ass. Thanks guys and gals.
|
|
|
|
|
sauron
Oct 29, 2002, 7:16 PM
Post #13 of 32
(3764 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 1859
|
We were going to have Juliana try to belay me in Rumney... But there was concern voiced that my 2.5 times her body weight, might cause her to be pulled off the ground, just by lowering me...
I think Vanessa did end up belaying me at one point, though. (Don't know her weight)
- d.
|
|
|
|
|
grandwall
Oct 29, 2002, 7:25 PM
Post #14 of 32
(3764 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 28, 2002
Posts: 152
|
caddbitch:
I'm not sure if this is new information for you or not but indoor climbing gyms that I have been to have some sort of anchor at the base of most climbs. Your belayer would be anchored securely to the ground.
|
|
|
|
|
geezergecko
Oct 29, 2002, 7:34 PM
Post #15 of 32
(3764 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 26, 2002
Posts: 729
|
As a general rule of thumb if the climber is more than 150% the weight of the belayer then a bottom anchor should be used. A bottom anchor is also useful if the belayer has to escape the belay to call an ambulance, etc. Also it is a good idea to anchor beginning belayers. Those used to getting a lift to the first anchor or overweight slobs like me can do without.
|
|
|
|
|
freudian
Oct 31, 2002, 10:01 PM
Post #16 of 32
(3764 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 23, 2002
Posts: 236
|
This is what I've been told by the local climbers:
If you are leading and your belayer is significantly heavier than you, this is what steps to take to (hopfully) ensure a higher degree of safety for both parties envovled:
1. Belayer: Belay from a tree, or some other anchored point (dont even have the belay device hooked to you, have it just on the tree)
2. Leader: Your first peice of gear should be an UP-PULL (nut, cam, etc.), and every peice of PRO after being a down-pull.
These things will reduce the chance of "Zippering" due to the anchored belayer or belay device's orientation. It will also allow for the belayer to "Escape" the system, or for that matter, not be tied into the system... this way they can go for help if need be.
FREUDIAN
PS: Feel free to point out any errors in this idea.
[ This Message was edited by: freudian on 2002-10-31 14:02 ]
[ This Message was edited by: freudian on 2002-10-31 14:04 ]
|
|
|
|
|
mtnsprts
Oct 31, 2002, 10:22 PM
Post #17 of 32
(3764 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 14, 2002
Posts: 125
|
This has cleared up some of my questions as well...thanks everyone.
|
|
|
|
|
boogirl
Oct 31, 2002, 11:14 PM
Post #18 of 32
(3764 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 20, 2002
Posts: 135
|
The guys always out weigh me but I've got one thing to my advantage - females typically have a lower center of gravity. I always anchor when indicated (but don't let your mom anchor you into a gear loop ). Anytime I can anticipate the fall, I'll "sit" myself into the rope to counter their weight which reduces their fall and my corresponding lift. When there's just a few pounds difference (20-30), I position myself right under the anchors on a top rope belay or after a couple clips up - I stand right under the first bolt on a lead climb.
[ This Message was edited by: boogirl on 2002-10-31 15:15 ]
|
|
|
|
|
boltakrak
Nov 1, 2002, 1:20 AM
Post #19 of 32
(3764 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 1, 2002
Posts: 40
|
fat people can't climb, and shouldn't either
|
|
|
|
|
geezergecko
Nov 1, 2002, 2:20 AM
Post #20 of 32
(3764 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 26, 2002
Posts: 729
|
That hurt. May you be cursed with a love of donuts.
|
|
|
|
|
danielb
Nov 1, 2002, 10:06 AM
Post #21 of 32
(3764 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 30, 2002
Posts: 232
|
Remember when we say anchor the belayer that we mean the anchor you use should be good against an upward force not a downward one.
As if your like me and weigh 95kg with a belay who weighs 50-60kg then you need to anchor to the deck to stop them joining you half-way up the climb if you fall off.
Also helmets can be a good idea for the belay if there are overhangs above them they could get lifted into.
Daniel
|
|
|
|
|
jafarr
Nov 1, 2002, 9:51 PM
Post #22 of 32
(3764 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 17, 2002
Posts: 291
|
at 135lbs, I'm the lightest person in our climbing group. Two of our good climbers (~185ish), I usually don't anchor for, cause they trust me to catch them. BUT I always ask them if they plan doing something tricky, so that I can anchor in. A couple of times in order for me to stay on the ground, I've had to do a dynamic belay. But those were extreme cases, and I don't recommend it.
Oh well, my 2 cents...
j
|
|
|
|
|
geoteck
Nov 6, 2002, 4:41 PM
Post #23 of 32
(3764 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 6, 2002
Posts: 145
|
freudian,
"1. Belayer: Belay from a tree, or some other anchored point (dont even have the belay device hooked to you, have it just on the tree)"
While I will not even to pretend to be an authority on the subject of leading, I am currently taking a class that would dissagree. The idea of lead climbing is that the falls are dymanic to absorb the force. The belayer must supply some 'give' which most often means leaving the ground if neccesary. (The exception being if the climber will hit the deck. - or if leaving the ground would be dangerous due to the surroundings)
If the belayer is anchored in (or the belay device is on something static like a tree) the fall will be a lot harder on the climber due to the sudden and unforgiving stop.
I myself am heavier and asked the question of unbalanced lead falls in class. I was told there are anchors with some 'give' to them (I cant remeber the name or the exact workings)
Would some experienced leaders please comment on this post - or am I mistaken.
[ This Message was edited by: geoteck on 2002-11-06 08:43 ]
|
|
|
|
|
geoteck
Nov 6, 2002, 4:47 PM
Post #24 of 32
(3764 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 6, 2002
Posts: 145
|
That said - In TOP-ROPE, I often have a 90-100 pound friend of mine belay me and I'm 250. I insist she anchors in and I've never had problems. She has told me several times that she has no problems belaying me, even when I take sharp sudden falls.
That being said, I trust her more than larger and stronger people and probably wouldn't let anyone else that light belay me if I could help it.
|
|
|
|
|
bwnco
Nov 6, 2002, 5:02 PM
Post #25 of 32
(3764 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 19, 2002
Posts: 59
|
My 55 pound daughter belays me. I way 155. Shes 11. It adds a new dimension to the sport...ha ha ha. But she is anchored and I make her use a gri gri but not take it for granted and use it like it was a regular belay device. Its rather, ahhhhh exciting I guess you could say...... BW p.s Yes I have fallen......Alot!!!
|
|
|
|
|
tradguy
Nov 6, 2002, 5:12 PM
Post #26 of 32
(2533 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 22, 2002
Posts: 526
|
Even if the rear loop on the belayer's harness is rated full strength, they still would not want to clip an anchor into it, because when the climber falls, or when they want to be lowered, the pull on the front and fixed anchor on the back will cause the harness to taco (ie pinch in half) which is quite painful on sides the belayer's (waist strap digs in hard), especially if the climber wants to hang for a bit to rest.
|
|
|
|
|
fitch
Nov 11, 2002, 7:28 PM
Post #27 of 32
(2533 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 11, 2002
Posts: 38
|
I have heard the counsel of clipping the anchor into the biner that the belay device is on (not just tying it independantly onto your harness). If the belayer is lifted, this transfers the force directly into the anchor instead of stretching out the harness. Seems like good practice to me.
|
|
|
|
|
timpanogos
Nov 11, 2002, 7:49 PM
Post #28 of 32
(2533 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 17, 2002
Posts: 935
|
The danger of the belayer being violently dragged into the rock and being injured (possibly dropping the break hand) should be one of your major considerations when/why setting a belay anchor.
|
|
|
|
|
dimeedge
Nov 11, 2002, 8:09 PM
Post #29 of 32
(2533 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 17, 2002
Posts: 50
|
geoteck wrote: The idea of lead climbing is that the falls are dymanic to absorb the force. The belayer must supply some 'give' which most often means leaving the ground if neccesary.
I do like the idea of 'some give' I would rather make sure that my belayer is in control and let the dynamic rope do its job of providing 'some give'.
My suggestion would be to attach the anchor to the same biner as the belay device, AND the belayers harness. This takes care of all the problems: The belayer is anchored so the climber wont pull him or her too far. The belayer wont be squished in half because the anchor is clipped to the back of his harness. The belay device cant be whipped out of the belayers hands because the belay device is still clipped to his harness. The belay can still be a bit 'dynamic' because the rope will have to pull on the belayer first, before the anchor (and you should be using a dynamic rope).
Just my thoughts.
|
|
|
|
|
geezergecko
Nov 11, 2002, 9:33 PM
Post #30 of 32
(2533 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 26, 2002
Posts: 729
|
Please consider that the belayer may have to escape the belay for some emergency reason. Your belay/anchor setup should allow for this.
|
|
|
|
|
cerikpete
Nov 22, 2002, 9:22 PM
Post #31 of 32
(2533 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 22, 2002
Posts: 4043
|
Best bet: try a small fall first. Climb up a few feet and fall. Climb a little higher and fall. Get your wife used to the feel of catching you, this will make her more comfortable. Also, it will test the anchor.
- Erik
|
|
|
|
|
katydid
Nov 23, 2002, 1:26 PM
Post #32 of 32
(2533 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 13, 2002
Posts: 3212
|
I don't like being anchored to the ground and will do anything in the world to avoid it. The other night I belayed my husband, who weighs 115 pounds more than I do, and didn't "go up" once when he fell on TR. He's just started, so I give him a fairly taut belay, and sit back in my harness almost like I'm sitting in a chair.
I wouldn't think of belaying him standing straight up, though. I'd go flying. Wheeee!
Kate
|
|
|
|
|
|
