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suilenroc
Nov 24, 2008, 5:05 PM
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It disappoints me to bring forth such blatant evidence that there are moron rappeller's in my area. Sure, they are everywhere - well these dudes caught it on tape, even had the nerve to post it on youtube. I present this video not to suggest a good roast(please, burn away), but to show beginner's that just because your friend owns some gear, DOES NOT mean he/she knows what he/she is doing!
This all went down at the Hocking Hills State Forest Climbing and Rappelling Area in Hocking county Ohio. One of the few actual designated climbing area's in all of Ohio. There are no bolts in this area, all rigs are Top Rope, utilizing trees(which there are many to choose from and are not all over the edge of a lip). I have a good friend that works for the parks system in that area, throughout peak tourist season it is not uncommon for people to fall in this area. It isn't always due to climbing and rappelling but I am certain that shit like this cannot be good for our future access.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JikIrPklDyA
ADD: This one is sideways, but another example of these people's lack of experience...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruRsBMxXsqk
(This post was edited by suilenroc on Nov 24, 2008, 5:15 PM)
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sgreer
Nov 24, 2008, 5:16 PM
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They won't last too long.
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dingus
Nov 24, 2008, 5:30 PM
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Hmmm, that dude what backed off like that?
He may be an idiot but he's also made of stern stuff. Takes guts to do something like that.
With a little instruction that dude would be climbing all over the likes of us.
In our haste to belittle the dangerous actions of the 'typical male teenager' let us not forget this one simple fact - the sport of climbing as we know it woulde NOT EXIST without dumbass dudes like this.
I guess I can't jump on the superiority bandwagon here, sorry.
DMT
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full1346
Nov 24, 2008, 5:33 PM
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i agree with what you said, but you cant deny that they dont seem to be exhibiting much logic and common sense. a stupid stunt like that is permissible but left unchecked these guys arent going to be with us on this earth for long
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dingus
Nov 24, 2008, 5:45 PM
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full1346 wrote: i agree with what you said, but you cant deny that they dont seem to be exhibiting much logic and common sense. a stupid stunt like that is permissible but left unchecked these guys arent going to be with us on this earth for long
Oh yah mon, those two are in a 'dead heat' between common sense and the grim reaper.
Same as it is for most normal male teenagers, lol.
If the climbing don't getchya, the driving surely will!
DMT
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suilenroc
Nov 24, 2008, 5:52 PM
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In reply to: clearly climbers, as well.
...and what exactly are you trying to get at with that statement?
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Gmburns2000
Nov 24, 2008, 5:54 PM
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All that and no backup! 
That takes some serious cajones, not to mention how hard the fall looked.
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Bats
Nov 24, 2008, 5:57 PM
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The second guy was trying for the comando style. First guy was scared, but I would be too, first time and all. I did not like the anchor system...I am going to watch it again.
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Bats
Nov 24, 2008, 6:04 PM
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Its not the best...
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jeepnphreak
Nov 24, 2008, 6:17 PM
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Bats wrote: Its not the best...
Bats wrote: Its not the best...
Not by a long shot. Looks like a few rapps like that would rost through the webbing. Its hard to tell what they are using to secure the webbing in the middle + run the rope through, it looks like a single biner. I would have tried to set the webbing up so it equalized better, and added a few back ups. by the time the guy ended the drop, the forces on the rigging seem to be well over 90*.
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Carnage
Nov 24, 2008, 6:30 PM
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rappellilng is such a hardcore sport. i wish i could have the physical strength and mental determination required to be a pro like that guy.
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Goo
Nov 24, 2008, 6:36 PM
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its hard to see what sort of system they're using. but the biggest issue is that they are needlessly shockloading the anchors, right? the would probably be fine if they just eased onto the system, or anchored off a tree further back so they could just rapp of the edge of the cliff instead of falling.
and like dingus said, it would take balls to take a fall like that onto the rope your first time ever.
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suilenroc
Nov 24, 2008, 6:55 PM
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My concerns...
1. His first time rappelling, no fireman's belay, the camera man laughs in anticipation of his fall.
2. Their Rap 2 Pull 1 is poorly setup.
3. Looks like there are some bad angles involved.
4. He basically fell 6 ft. on maybe 3 ft. of slack, all of which is probably static (webbing obviously, maybe the rope too).
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justroberto
Nov 24, 2008, 7:06 PM
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suilenroc wrote: In reply to: suilenroc wrote: ...there are moron rappeller's in my area... clearly climbers, as well. ...and what exactly are you trying to get at with that statement?
Meh, just being a dick.
But seriously, English is your first language, right?
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dingus
Nov 24, 2008, 7:08 PM
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suilenroc wrote: 1. His first time rappelling, no fireman's belay, the camera man laughs in anticipation of his fall.
Hehe yes it reminded me of the time I 'taught' Ronnie to rappel and the home made harness I have him fell apart mid-rap!
That laughter? Just so you know... its not mean spirited.
Its a 'nervous laughter,' a sympathetic response. See the laugher had been in and knows well the feelings the laughee is experiencing. He knows is dangerous and scary as hell.
The laughter is a nervous release, so don't hold it against him. I bet you may have experienced something similar yourself - that nervous 'climber's laugh.'
(we laugh at death, we do!)
DMT
(This post was edited by dingus on Nov 24, 2008, 7:09 PM)
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suilenroc
Nov 24, 2008, 7:17 PM
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justroberto wrote: suilenroc wrote: In reply to: suilenroc wrote: ...there are moron rappeller's in my area... clearly climbers, as well. ...and what exactly are you trying to get at with that statement? Meh, just being a dick. But seriously, English is your first language, right?
Dick!
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suilenroc
Nov 24, 2008, 7:25 PM
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dingus wrote: suilenroc wrote: 1. His first time rappelling, no fireman's belay, the camera man laughs in anticipation of his fall. Hehe yes it reminded me of the time I 'taught' Ronnie to rappel and the home made harness I have him fell apart mid-rap! That laughter? Just so you know... its not mean spirited. Its a 'nervous laughter,' a sympathetic response. See the laugher had been in and knows well the feelings the laughee is experiencing. He knows is dangerous and scary as hell. The laughter is a nervous release, so don't hold it against him. I bet you may have experienced something similar yourself - that nervous 'climber's laugh.' (we laugh at death, we do!) DMT
I know exactly what you are talking about and have definitely experienced it... I hold it against him because he put his friend in that position. To put a n00b in such a situation is extremely stupid, that kid had no idea what he was getting himself into. Ahh, just irritates the hell out of me that people do this shit to people that have no experience. Its one thing to laugh death in the face when its your own life, its another to laugh at death when it is staring at your friends...
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dingus
Nov 24, 2008, 7:28 PM
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suilenroc wrote: dingus wrote: suilenroc wrote: 1. His first time rappelling, no fireman's belay, the camera man laughs in anticipation of his fall. Hehe yes it reminded me of the time I 'taught' Ronnie to rappel and the home made harness I have him fell apart mid-rap! That laughter? Just so you know... its not mean spirited. Its a 'nervous laughter,' a sympathetic response. See the laugher had been in and knows well the feelings the laughee is experiencing. He knows is dangerous and scary as hell. The laughter is a nervous release, so don't hold it against him. I bet you may have experienced something similar yourself - that nervous 'climber's laugh.' (we laugh at death, we do!) DMT I know exactly what you are talking about and have definitely experienced it... I hold it against him because he put his friend in that position. To put a n00b in such a situation is extremely stupid, that kid had no idea what he was getting himself into. Ahh, just irritates the hell out of me that people do this shit to people that have no experience. Its one thing to laugh death in the face when its your own life, its another to laugh at death when it is staring at your friends...
Tell the truth... YOU'RE THE RAPPELLER IN THE VID, aren't you hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
(I'd hold a grudge too!)
Cheers
DMT
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suilenroc
Nov 24, 2008, 7:33 PM
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In reply to: Tell the truth... YOU'RE THE RAPPELLER IN THE VID, aren't you hahahahahahahahahahahahaha! (I'd hold a grudge too!)
No way mango, that rap is way to easy for it to be me... I rap 5.14s as a warm up...
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crimpandgo
Nov 24, 2008, 7:48 PM
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Its times like this that I wish I could view youtube at work 
You all have all the fun 
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markc
Nov 24, 2008, 8:20 PM
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suilenroc wrote: dingus wrote: suilenroc wrote: 1. His first time rappelling, no fireman's belay, the camera man laughs in anticipation of his fall. Hehe yes it reminded me of the time I 'taught' Ronnie to rappel and the home made harness I have him fell apart mid-rap! That laughter? Just so you know... its not mean spirited. Its a 'nervous laughter,' a sympathetic response. See the laugher had been in and knows well the feelings the laughee is experiencing. He knows is dangerous and scary as hell. The laughter is a nervous release, so don't hold it against him. I bet you may have experienced something similar yourself - that nervous 'climber's laugh.' (we laugh at death, we do!) DMT I know exactly what you are talking about and have definitely experienced it... I hold it against him because he put his friend in that position. To put a n00b in such a situation is extremely stupid, that kid had no idea what he was getting himself into. Ahh, just irritates the hell out of me that people do this shit to people that have no experience. Its one thing to laugh death in the face when its your own life, its another to laugh at death when it is staring at your friends...
His friend's a dick for not walking him through the process and backing him up, but that first-timer has a shit-ton of nerve. Hopefully he and his buddy learn from their mistakes before they catch up to them. That said, my own first experience rappelling may be more traumatic than his.
When I was in my late teens/early 20s (in other words, firmly in the dumb-ass phase), my friends took me urban rappelling. They threw a harness, figure-8, and a pair of gloves on me, and sent my ass off a bridge. They almost made me the first guy down, then one of them offered to go first and provide a fireman's belay. My introduction/lesson (about 30 seconds) took a lot less time than talking me over the rail and off into the void. It was scary as all hell hanging free like that, beneath a bridge in full darkness, but I made it down okay.
Next we climbed and rappelled a nearby smoke stack. I was just getting comfortable, pushing off a bit and looking down. My long hair fed into my figure-8, and before I knew it I was somewhere around 15-20' up, totally stuck. The guy on top couldn't figure out what was taking so long, and kept tugging to see if the rope was slack yet. Thankfully, friends scurried up iron girders supporting the stack and supported me while someone told the guy on top to drop the rope. Had that shit happened on the free-hanging rappel, I doubt if my friends would have known what to do. I sure as hell didn't.
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justroberto
Nov 24, 2008, 8:25 PM
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suilenroc wrote: dingus wrote: suilenroc wrote: 1. His first time rappelling, no fireman's belay, the camera man laughs in anticipation of his fall. Hehe yes it reminded me of the time I 'taught' Ronnie to rappel and the home made harness I have him fell apart mid-rap! That laughter? Just so you know... its not mean spirited. Its a 'nervous laughter,' a sympathetic response. See the laugher had been in and knows well the feelings the laughee is experiencing. He knows is dangerous and scary as hell. The laughter is a nervous release, so don't hold it against him. I bet you may have experienced something similar yourself - that nervous 'climber's laugh.' (we laugh at death, we do!) DMT I know exactly what you are talking about and have definitely experienced it... I hold it against him because he put his friend in that position. To put a n00b in such a situation is extremely stupid, that kid had no idea what he was getting himself into. Ahh, just irritates the hell out of me that people do this shit to people that have no experience. Its one thing to laugh death in the face when its your own life, its another to laugh at death when it is staring at your friends...
Dammit Dingus, stop being so understanding and reasonable!
I see what you're saying suilen, but chances are the friend in question doesn't really know what he's doing either, but thinks he does...I've experienced the following situation far too many times:
18-25 year old dude(s) doing something dumbfounding in some well-traveled climbing area.
Me: "Hey, you doing alright there? Need any help/advice/etc?"
Him: "Nah, by buddy in the [insert branch of the armed forces here] showed me how to do this; I'm fine."
More than likely, he'll be fine in the end, and since he had such a grand ol' time he'll go show heis newfound fun to someone else...
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limeydave
Nov 24, 2008, 8:37 PM
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Bah, we've all done worse than that in our time.
How do you know there isn't another competent chappie at the bottom holding the brake as a backup?
Regardless, these guys probably won't die, hopefully they'll be inspired to learn more and improve their safety, then they can look at youtube and talk about how they can't believe they did that.
Hell, I rapped off a toilet once at a party from the 3rd floor
The thing was anchored by 2 wood screws into the floor and I chucked the rope out the window and rapped down. Don't remember if I backed it up to the radiator, but the toilet held. 
Good times.
edited to add: don't try this at home!
(This post was edited by limeydave on Nov 24, 2008, 8:38 PM)
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Hennessey
Nov 24, 2008, 10:37 PM
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It won't be long before the idiot in the video gets seriously hurt
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coolcat83
Nov 24, 2008, 11:17 PM
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first off i wouldn't want them to get hurt or die, second, every time there is an accident with "climbers" we all suffer from the bad pr
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brownie710
Nov 24, 2008, 11:18 PM
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natural selection narrowly averted, thank goodness!!! luck only lasts so long, instruction and experience can last a lifetime, or at least ensure you get to live a lifetime!
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dingus
Nov 24, 2008, 11:31 PM
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coolcat83 wrote: first off i wouldn't want them to get hurt or die, second, every time there is an accident with "climbers" we all suffer from the bad pr
No offense, but no 'we' don't.
DMT
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coolcat83
Nov 24, 2008, 11:56 PM
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you may not, but in places like my state of NJ with access issues where we are fighting and scratching for ever bit of rock we get, public perception is very important.
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dingus
Nov 25, 2008, 12:08 AM
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coolcat83 wrote: you may not, but in places like my state of NJ with access issues where we are fighting and scratching for ever bit of rock we get, public perception is very important.
WIth all due respect I think you're kidding yourself. But that is your right.
I don't think public perception makes any difference whatsoever to the state of NJ.
But really, what I'm mostly talking about is Climbing, as an Individual Pursuit, as opposed to Climbing as a Group Think.
I have more in common with that kid then I do the overly careful, thrice-trained, 12-times read carefulniks that are pretty much the opposite of that kid.
What he did was stupid. What he did was bold. They are not mutually exclusive and some amazing climbs have been done once started out of. um, stupidity.
Revel in that bloke's madness, for you are staring at the heart and souil of climbing. Madness.
Climbing IS NOT SAFE.
DMT
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suilenroc
Nov 25, 2008, 8:58 PM
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In reply to: What he did was stupid. What he did was bold. They are not mutually exclusive and some amazing climbs have been done once started out of. um, stupidity.
I agree, what he did was stupid. In this situation, the terms stupid and bold are mutually exclusive. Sure, some amazing climbs have been done out of stupidity and acts of boldness... Not this situation!
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rockie
Nov 25, 2008, 9:20 PM
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I think they need to learn how to climb. Courses might be good!
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dingus
Nov 25, 2008, 9:31 PM
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suilenroc wrote: In reply to: What he did was stupid. What he did was bold. They are not mutually exclusive and some amazing climbs have been done once started out of. um, stupidity. I agree, what he did was stupid. In this situation, the terms stupid and bold are mutually exclusive. Sure, some amazing climbs have been done out of stupidity and acts of boldness... Not this situation!
Whatever. Have a good day.
DMT
(This post was edited by dingus on Nov 25, 2008, 9:32 PM)
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olderic
Nov 25, 2008, 9:48 PM
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dingus wrote: I have more in common with that kid then I do the overly careful, thrice-trained, 12-times read carefulniks that are pretty much the opposite of that kid. What he did was stupid. What he did was bold. They are not mutually exclusive and some amazing climbs have been done once started out of. um, stupidity. Revel in that bloke's madness, for you are staring at the heart and souil of climbing. Madness. Climbing IS NOT SAFE. DMT
Any one who doesn't agree with that statement (which is one of Dingus's better ones - although it basically the same thing he has said hundreds of times on dozens of forums)
is not a climber and will never get it.
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lagwagonpcp
Nov 25, 2008, 9:55 PM
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people dont do shit like that without 'thinking' they know what they are doing.
how do we stop it? this is what i suggest.
to buy rope people should have to have a permit and there should be a five week waiting period. finger prints should be taken. also we should impose a limet on rope, say a individual with a permit should only be able to buy five feet of rope a month( although this could be problematic as dynamic rope stretches and it would be difficult to know exactly how many feet of rope are on our streets at a given time) thread should be banned to prevent poeple from making rope.
but ideally all rope use would be restricted to the military and cowboys
this is an epidemic people we need to get rope out of the hands of our youth and off our streets
posting that shit on youtube was funny cuz they dont know that they are stupid heheh
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suilenroc
Nov 25, 2008, 10:12 PM
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olderic wrote: dingus wrote: I have more in common with that kid then I do the overly careful, thrice-trained, 12-times read carefulniks that are pretty much the opposite of that kid. What he did was stupid. What he did was bold. They are not mutually exclusive and some amazing climbs have been done once started out of. um, stupidity. Revel in that bloke's madness, for you are staring at the heart and souil of climbing. Madness. Climbing IS NOT SAFE. DMT Any one who doesn't agree with that statement (which is one of Dingus's better ones - although it basically the same thing he has said hundreds of times on dozens of forums) is not a climber and will never get it.
Wow, I applaud your bravery to admit that you are not a climber...
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dingus
Nov 25, 2008, 10:25 PM
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lagwagonpcp wrote: to buy rope people should have to have a permit and there should be a five week waiting period. finger prints should be taken. also we should impose a limet on rope, say a individual with a permit should only be able to buy five feet of rope a month( although this could be problematic as dynamic rope stretches and it would be difficult to know exactly how many feet of rope are on our streets at a given time) thread should be banned to prevent poeple from making rope. but ideally all rope use would be restricted to the military and cowboys this is an epidemic people we need to get rope out of the hands of our youth and off our streets posting that shit on youtube was funny cuz they dont know that they are stupid heheh
Excellent post!
DMT
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crimpandgo
Nov 25, 2008, 10:30 PM
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So, whats the big deal??
I didn't have the sound turned on.. but I certainly have seen videos that display far greater stupidity than these folks did.
anchored to a try reundently. hands never left the belay device. repelled slowly if not tentatively. It ain't textbook, but who is when they first start. but this was far easier than watching the video of the guy at camelback that faceplanted attempting to impress friends while doing an aussie style rapal. NOw that was a moron rappeller.
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gunkiemike
Nov 25, 2008, 10:35 PM
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dingus wrote: What he did was stupid. Climbing IS NOT SAFE. DMT
True dat.
But c'mon...factor 2ing onto a goofy anchor with a double strand of rope? That's taking steps to make it riskier than it needs to be.
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suilenroc
Nov 25, 2008, 10:49 PM
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In reply to: I didn't have the sound turned on.. but I certainly have seen videos that display far greater stupidity than these folks did.
Audio - "So this is your first time rappelling, right?"
I am certain that there are video's out there that display much greater acts of stupidity.
I brought this one to light because it hits close to home.
Its not a "big deal", just wanted to point out (from my o.p.)"to show beginner's that just because your friend owns some gear, DOES NOT mean he/she knows what he/she is doing!"....
...and if you don't see much wrong with the rig they setup, i suggest you get some instruction soon!
edut: spelwing
(This post was edited by suilenroc on Nov 25, 2008, 10:51 PM)
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crimpandgo
Nov 26, 2008, 4:17 AM
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suilenroc wrote: In reply to: I didn't have the sound turned on.. but I certainly have seen videos that display far greater stupidity than these folks did. Audio - "So this is your first time rappelling, right?" I am certain that there are video's out there that display much greater acts of stupidity. I brought this one to light because it hits close to home. Its not a "big deal", just wanted to point out (from my o.p.)"to show beginner's that just because your friend owns some gear, DOES NOT mean he/she knows what he/she is doing!".... ...and if you don't see much wrong with the rig they setup, i suggest you get some instruction soon! edut: spelwing
based on the fact that you think this will teach people what not to do.. I am not too worried about your opinion.. but thanks for sharing.
the setup is not text book. but I don't see anyone dying instantly either. I, however have seen first hand people do things that were far worse than this. I could share a few if you like? my guess is you dont like.
So, instead of just gettin puffy. point out some of the errors in their setup. that would help the beginner much better.
(This post was edited by crimpandgo on Nov 26, 2008, 4:25 AM)
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dingus
Nov 26, 2008, 4:34 AM
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suilenroc wrote: Its not a "big deal", just wanted to point out (from my o.p.)"to show beginner's that just because your friend owns some gear, DOES NOT mean he/she knows what he/she is doing!"....
This is a very good point.
Cheers
DMT
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suilenroc
Nov 26, 2008, 6:18 AM
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I already did... I feel sorry for them as much as I do for your ability to read a thread...
In reply to: My concerns... 1. His first time rappelling, no fireman's belay, the camera man laughs in anticipation of his fall. 2. Their Rap 2 Pull 1 is poorly setup. 3. Looks like there are some bad angles involved. 4. He basically fell 6 ft. on maybe 3 ft. of slack, all of which is probably static (webbing obviously, maybe the rope too).
The only thing "puffy" is your lack of reeeding....
ADD:
In reply to: based on the fact that you think this will teach people what not to do.. I am not too worried about your opinion.. but thanks for sharing. 
In reply to: to show beginner's that just because your friend owns some gear, DOES NOT mean he/she knows what he/she is doing!
(This post was edited by suilenroc on Nov 26, 2008, 6:28 AM)
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majid_sabet
Nov 26, 2008, 6:30 AM
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The guy who is rapping is not moron. The true moron is the one who set the anchor too low on the tree. When rapping from the edge, if you have a choice to set your anchor high then leave it high.
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curtis_g
Nov 26, 2008, 6:37 AM
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majid_sabet wrote: The guy who is rapping is not moron. The true moron is the one who set the anchor too low on the tree. When rapping from the edge, if you have a choice to set your anchor high then leave it high.
Thanks for the spot-on advice majid!
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suilenroc
Nov 26, 2008, 6:41 AM
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I totally agree and have rappelled from the same spot...Only safely!
Edut Spelwing
(This post was edited by suilenroc on Nov 26, 2008, 5:15 PM)
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crimpandgo
Nov 26, 2008, 7:23 PM
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suilenroc wrote: I already did... I feel sorry for them as much as I do for your ability to read a thread... In reply to: My concerns... 1. His first time rappelling, no fireman's belay, the camera man laughs in anticipation of his fall. 2. Their Rap 2 Pull 1 is poorly setup. 3. Looks like there are some bad angles involved. 4. He basically fell 6 ft. on maybe 3 ft. of slack, all of which is probably static (webbing obviously, maybe the rope too). The only thing "puffy" is your lack of reeeding.... ADD: In reply to: based on the fact that you think this will teach people what not to do.. I am not too worried about your opinion.. but thanks for sharing. I am sure you are not worried... This is probably a video of you and your pals! The example is valid, "don't be a MORON RAPPELLER", get it? The thread title isn't "MORON RAPPELLER DIES!", duh, ummm, you should tread elsewhere! In reply to: to show beginner's that just because your friend owns some gear, DOES NOT mean he/she knows what he/she is doing!
You are funny,
so I will continue to play this game. I really don't care either way but it cracks me up when folks like you get on your mightier than though kicks.
I agree with all your comments. critiques. it is poorly set up. there are some bad angles.
Majid's comment about setting up higher is a good one too.
but what I have heard is bunch of comments about a setup that could be better. that hardly qualifies in my book as a moron.
If this truely is there first time, they have done a lot better than many folks I have seen out on the rock.
The anchor is setup up redundant which is a lot better than other setups I have seen. the rapeller is cautious when rapping but kind of slips and jumps off. Heck, i have slipped off a bad ledged before. that doesn't take lack of experience.
that fact is with the setup I see, I see no reason to be concerned that they were in any immediate danger.
The only thing I would be concerned with is an inexperienced person letting go of the rope but its pretty obvious by his death grip he was not going to do that.
So, again, I ask.. what is Wrong with the setup? Not what could be done better. what truely would classify this person as a moron??
Majid has the first point I have ssen so far..
GO
P.S. sui, this really isn't meant to be a personal attack on you.. just presenting another point of view. the questions are meant for a wider audience. sorry
(This post was edited by crimpandgo on Nov 26, 2008, 7:27 PM)
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suilenroc
Nov 27, 2008, 6:28 AM
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Its all good...
I wish you would have been able to listen to the video. It seems as though the person that set the rig has done this before (i am still waiting to hear back from him). The person on the rappel was in fact doing it for their first time. That being said, i consider these kids MORON's because of their actions.
Their setup was indeed not the worst... But taking possibly a factor 2 fall on it didn't help.
To put a "friend" in that kind of situation is just plain stupid.
Ever picked up someone's dead body at the bottom of a cliff (i have not)? A good friend of mine has to respond to the many incidents that occur in this area, i have heard the stories.
Like i said, this hit close to home.. Anyways, maybe the word MORON may seem a bit strong for you. I find it to be quite fitting.
I do not behave in this manor and never have when it comes to my buddies lives as well as my own.
Cheers and safe climbing to you...
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looserock
Nov 27, 2008, 8:16 AM
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I've seen ropes anchored at the edge before, and I've seen people swing from the side to rap down thier doubled climbing rope. What is the best way to rap over the edge if the rope is tied at or near the edge?
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skiclimb
Nov 27, 2008, 12:32 PM
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Not gonna flip out on these guys quite as much as most.
The anchor is fine for the purpose. The technique was actually pretty slick and well executed.
Brake hand was the real issue here and the fact that the guy seems a bit to new for what he was doing.
If it had been an experienced guy doing it i'd have had nothing negative to say at all.
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suilenroc
Nov 27, 2008, 4:56 PM
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looserock wrote: I've seen ropes anchored at the edge before, and I've seen people swing from the side to rap down thier doubled climbing rope. What is the best way to rap over the edge if the rope is tied at or near the edge?
You would want to rig the anchor much higher on the trees. That way when you approach the edge you are able to keep your rap line taut and are able to avoid shock loading the anchor.
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Goo
Nov 28, 2008, 4:23 AM
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suilenroc wrote: looserock wrote: I've seen ropes anchored at the edge before, and I've seen people swing from the side to rap down thier doubled climbing rope. What is the best way to rap over the edge if the rope is tied at or near the edge? You would want to rig the anchor much higher on the trees. That way when you approach the edge you are able to keep your rap line taut and are able to avoid shock loading the anchor.
or, if that's not possible (ex fixed chaintop anchors or bolts) you can reverse mantle and ease onto the rope, and so avoid shock loading the anchors or flipping upside down... just do it slowly and safely.
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shockabuku
Nov 28, 2008, 4:59 AM
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suilenroc wrote: Its all good... I wish you would have been able to listen to the video. It seems as though the person that set the rig has done this before (i am still waiting to hear back from him). The person on the rappel was in fact doing it for their first time. That being said, i consider these kids MORON's because of their actions. Their setup was indeed not the worst... But taking possibly a factor 2 fall on it didn't help. To put a "friend" in that kind of situation is just plain stupid. Ever picked up someone's dead body at the bottom of a cliff (i have not)? A good friend of mine has to respond to the many incidents that occur in this area, i have heard the stories. Like i said, this hit close to home.. Anyways, maybe the word MORON may seem a bit strong for you. I find it to be quite fitting. I do not behave in this manor and never have when it comes to my buddies lives as well as my own. Cheers and safe climbing to you...
You know, there's a difference between being stupid and being ignorant. People don't know what they don't know.
By the way, the word "MORON's" above should not have an apostrophe. Now what should we call you?
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patmay81
Nov 28, 2008, 5:05 AM
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Goo wrote: suilenroc wrote: looserock wrote: I've seen ropes anchored at the edge before, and I've seen people swing from the side to rap down thier doubled climbing rope. What is the best way to rap over the edge if the rope is tied at or near the edge? You would want to rig the anchor much higher on the trees. That way when you approach the edge you are able to keep your rap line taut and are able to avoid shock loading the anchor. or, if that's not possible (ex fixed chaintop anchors or bolts) you can reverse mantle and ease onto the rope, and so avoid shock loading the anchors or flipping upside down... just do it slowly and safely.
you probably dont want the anchor "higher in the trees", as it will slip, damage the trees, be to far from the edge, etc. I've done raps very similar to this over steep overhangs (but on better anchors).
I'm going to reference one of dingus' post in this thread "where would climbing be without the idiots like this" (or something to that effect).
Heck, if webbing, biners and ropes couldn't handle the abuse of a 6' fall, i think i'd give up climbing!
Sumary: imo nbd
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jollymon
Nov 28, 2008, 6:41 AM
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That is IT! I am giving up climbing to become a full time grammar nazi and rappelling BADASS! I could OWN this thread then.
Okay...seriously I do not see anything wrong with this...but then again I am the kinda guy who likes to google accidents rappelling whippers ect ect and JUST GO AHEAD AND TELL ME YOU DO NOT ALSO. That's what I thought. No one is an  . Unsafe? sure. Worst thing ever? nope. SOMEONE has to keep my google searches entertaining.
In a separate note, I move we all write our usernames on our shirts and bring video cameras whenever we are about to do something stupid. It would be much more entertaining that way to say "hey did ya see dingus pendulum into that slab" or "wow, jollymon really owned that rappel. To bad hes such a grammar nazi dick"
-Jolly
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ski.ninja
Nov 28, 2008, 10:26 AM
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Guran wrote: No no no. Remember "Speed is safety" 
According to the theory of relativity, you're absolutely correct. If this setup were traveling at close to the speed of light then there's no way it could fail!
P.S.
Check out this moron.
http://www.youtube.com/...&feature=related
(This post was edited by ski.ninja on Nov 28, 2008, 10:27 AM)
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jmvc
Nov 28, 2008, 12:45 PM
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Having said that I agree with Dingus's point of view. I taught myself how to abseil, and I don't doubt that it would have made amusing footage.
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dingus
Nov 28, 2008, 1:05 PM
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Apparently a lot of folks 'get' what I was after.
Even olderic gets it but his bitterness torwards me prevents him from acknowledging it.
DMT
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king_rat
Nov 28, 2008, 1:10 PM
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Just read through this thread, the abseil was stupid yes, badly set up yes. but fuck I’ve done some pretty stupid things in my time to.
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apeman_e
Nov 28, 2008, 1:24 PM
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Seriously, I have both done and seen way dumber shit that that. I give props to the kid, though, he certainly sacked up for his first rappel.
First time I climbed, we used 1 sling tied in the american triangle of death on the bolted anchor. Stupid- yes. But it sparked my desire to climb and learn- thank god I survived.
Good post topic- dumbest thing you've ever done rock climbing.
jmvc video links are hysterical, especially the second one. I wish I was dumb enough to recreated it...
e
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olderic
Nov 28, 2008, 3:07 PM
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dingus wrote: Apparently a lot of folks 'get' what I was after. Even olderic gets it but his bitterness torwards me prevents him from acknowledging it. DMT
Not bitter at all. I don't know you at all outside of your Internet persona. How accurate is that? It would appear that we have somewhat similar backgrounds and experiences. I am in awe of the shear volume of verbage you are able to post. I guess if I have any criticism that come across as caustic its that I find a lot of your postings to be a bit cliche-ed. All the profound insights, the anecdotes where you are a lovable buffoon or justice prevails, or the heartwarming scenarios seem more like a Disney movie. Of course a Disney movie would typically represent a higher literary effort then 99% of the postings on these sites and you certainly have many fans - myself among them.
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knieveltech
Nov 28, 2008, 3:32 PM
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olderic wrote: dingus wrote: I have more in common with that kid then I do the overly careful, thrice-trained, 12-times read carefulniks that are pretty much the opposite of that kid. What he did was stupid. What he did was bold. They are not mutually exclusive and some amazing climbs have been done once started out of. um, stupidity. Revel in that bloke's madness, for you are staring at the heart and souil of climbing. Madness. Climbing IS NOT SAFE. DMT Any one who doesn't agree with that statement (which is one of Dingus's better ones - although it basically the same thing he has said hundreds of times on dozens of forums) is not a climber and will never get it.
Thankfully your definition of "climber" bears no more relevance than anyone else's.
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vize
Apr 18, 2009, 6:46 AM
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It was me featured in both of those youtube videos. It's taken me a long time to respond because I really just haven't read any of my messages on youtube in response to the video until the random night of tonight. I've read through the entire thread and I'd have to confirm a couple of things. Yes, it was obviously my first time rappelling off of a cliff. The first video was my very, very first time. The second video that looks sideways, was my second time ever during that same day, and was also when I injured my hand. If you see in that video, when i hit the rock was when I created a pretty significant lifelong scar on the back part of my hand. You'd also see in that video, at that point, I couldn't really continue rappelling cuz my hand was stuck to the rock and the rope was caught! I remember thinking, at the time when I hit the rock, that pain would be felt eventually but I just had too much adrenaline pumping to feel it then. I was just happy to know that I had not fallen to my death. Later in the day my friend told me I went into a mild shock because he was asking me questions when I landed and I was not responding. I don't even remember him asking me questions. Both times that I rappelled I was under the impression that my friend knew exactly what he was doing. It's only after I read these posts tonight that I realize I could be dead right now? Well, yeah, it took guts to jump off the cliff like I did but I thought it was normal! I'd also like to add in, after I received the nice little scar on my hand I have not rock climbed again. It's a shame too, because I loved it my first time climbing outdoors. Too bad it was the first time that I had to use my whole t-shirt as a tourniquet to stop the bleeding. As weird as it may sound, I'd still like to climb again. Any help/ideas/comments would be appreciated.
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Lazlo
Apr 18, 2009, 2:18 PM
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sbaclimber wrote: vize wrote: As weird as it may sound, I'd still like to climb again. Any help/ideas/comments would be appreciated. Find a more competent partner, and get to it! It sounds like you are anything but a moron, and a lifelong scar is hardly a reason to stop doing something you enjoy
I couldn't say it better.
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shockabuku
Apr 18, 2009, 3:19 PM
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Don't take it too hard. Find someone qualified to help you learn. Go to a guide service or climbing gym. It'll cost you more but most likely you'll get a reasonably qualified instructor. Good luck, have fun. Also, get yourself a book on climbing and read it. Have some idea of what is reasonable and what isn't and ask questions. In this game you gotta take responsibility for your own safety.
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jamincan
Apr 18, 2009, 6:11 PM
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I agree, it takes a lot of guts to do what the guy did; however, I think that you aren't really taking into account the fact that this was the very first time the guy rappelled. Sure, the unknown is scary, but he also trusted his friend and probably figured that what he did was a lot safer than it felt and then it actually was. Was it guts that made him jump down that first time, or misplaced trust? If it is the former, than good for him; if it's the latter, as I suspect it is, than shame on his friend.
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MikeSaint
Apr 18, 2009, 10:37 PM
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Ah they seemed to have fun. I'm sure the drive home was filled with excitement and beers when they got home.
Is it wrong for me not to care about what they did in the video?
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shockabuku
Apr 18, 2009, 11:35 PM
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MikeSaint wrote: Ah they seemed to have fun. I'm sure the drive home was filled with excitement and beers when they got home. Is it wrong for me not to care about what they did in the video?
Yes! You are such a bad person!
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bill413
Apr 18, 2009, 11:59 PM
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vize, as has been said - look around for a competent mentor/teacher. Outdoor clubs are a good source.
I have a scar from not really understanding what I was doing when I started climbing....I'm sure it's happened to others. When I recovered, I went back to climbing. It's years later, and I still love it.
Rappelling can be fun in its own right, but usually doesn't need the jump starts 
Hope you & your friend learn more about it - and hopefully we'll see you at the cliffs.
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