Do you seriously have a rope log? Do you also write logs for your quickdraws and cams?

Maybe this is just a carry over from my job in the fire service...

So here it is on it's own thread... Do you keep a rope log? I do.

I can't come up with enough cons not to versus the pro's of having one.

Yeah well call me coo-koo but I do have a rope log for both my ropes. Maybe this is just a carry over from my job in the fire service but it makes sense to me.

I mark down what kind of service the rope was doing (TR, Lead, Rappels) location, dates and any significant event to the rope. (washing, lead falls, ect.) I also have on record the purchase dates as well. This is a folded piece of paper kept in my rope bag and takes ten seconds or less to fill out after a day of climbing. This is probably considered overkill by many but it's what I do.

I've kept a rope log since I bought my first rope. It's just a small composition book that fits nicely in the rope bag pocket. After each trip I record the date(s), location/crag, # of pitches, and # of lead falls. I'll also record other info such as wash dates/detergent used or any other incidents worth noting. This book is really more of a generally estimation of the wear and tear my rope has seen because there are many subjective factors to consider. I do not simply retire a rope based on numbers and dates. I must agree with the majority of the discussion in that feeling for imperfections and visual inspection is a far better way to determine the condition of a rope than a simple rope log. However combing the information found in a rope log with visual inspection would be beneficial. Also, it's often interesting to look back through the rope log after a year or two and realize how many amazing places you've been and recount how many pitches/lead falls your rope has seen.

I've kept a rope log since I bought my first rope. It's just a small composition book that fits nicely in the rope bag pocket. After each trip I record the date(s), location/crag, # of pitches, and # of lead falls. I'll also record other info such as wash dates/detergent used or any other incidents worth noting. This book is really more of a generally estimation of the wear and tear my rope has seen because there are many subjective factors to consider. I do not simply retire a rope based on numbers and dates. I must agree with the majority of the discussion in that feeling for imperfections and visual inspection is a far better way to determine the condition of a rope than a simple rope log. However combing the information found in a rope log with visual inspection would be beneficial. Also, it's often interesting to look back through the rope log after a year or two and realize how many amazing places you've been and recount how many pitches/lead falls your rope has seen.

I've never retired a rope based solely on information found in my rope log. In addition, I've never kept a rope which failed a visual inspection based on information found in my rope log. If a rope fails visual inspection I can open my rope log and take a look at the details... If the rope is relatively new (or even brand new), seen few lead falls, and experienced (to my knowledge) no unusual wear and tear, I'm still going to retire the rope. However, I can then contemplate that the damage came from either an extreme circumstance (sharp edge, ect.) or possibly a manufacturing problem. Alternatively, if the rope has been in service for 2.5 years, caught 85 lead falls, and been subject to much rope drag and hang-dogging, I can then determine that I’ve probably got my money’s worth and it is due time to retire the rope. After climbing for decades through the lifetime of numerous ropes, one might be able to look back over the information and ascertain a pattern of some sort. For example, he might notice that all the ropes which faced no unusual wear and tear were ready to be retired around 3 years, 1000 pitches, and 80 lead falls. It’s also possible that this person would find no pattern of any sort and the data would be completely sporadic providing no realistic speculation on the typical lifetime of a rope.

I wish I had enough figures to give you some specific results, but I simply haven’t been climbing long enough. I do intend to accumulate this data as I, God willingly, climb through the next few decades. Maybe someone here has done this and can offer some insight? The problem with forming a “typical lifetime” for a rope is that people will presume to expect that from their rope and not yield caution while the rope is still young often neglecting to inspect the rope visually. I’m the kind of person that inspects my rope before every trip because I understand that it only takes one bad fall, or chemical spill, which may even go unnoticed at the time, to render the rope useless. So, we must take great caution when presenting this kind of data to the public.

As I mentioned before, there are so many subjective factors that contribute to wear and tear on a rope and as a result, it is difficult to conclude on any definitive information provided on the typical lifetime of a rope. My rope log is not going to influence my decision on when to retire my rope until I know more about the durability of dynamic ropes. At the moment it is more or less just an accumulation of data and something I enjoy filling out as I reflect back on my climbing trips. Most people probably don’t need a rope log to remember what kind of wear and tear their rope has been subject to. And most people probably don’t care exactly how many pitches their rope has been service to, but this is information my rope log provides for me and my own benefit.

Out of curiosity, how many ropes have you even ever retired?

Here is what your rope log should look like.
DATE PURCHASED _____

If more than 5 or so years have passed start thinking about getting a new one even if the rope still looks and feels ok.

Here is what your rope log should look like.
DATE PURCHASED _____

I've retired 0 ropes, so that should tell you something about my experience on subject of retiring a rope and the integrity of what I have to say on the topic. I wouldn't go so far as to assume I know nothing, but time and experience speaks for itself.

My current (and first) rope has been in service for just over 15 months. It's seen 40 days of climbing, ~307 pitches, 29 lead falls, and been washed once. With this information I can produce numerous figures... I climb, on average, 7.6 pitches/day. I (or someone climbing on my rope) takes a lead fall about every 10.5 pitches. The rope is showing some wear in the sheath, but no damage to the core and no change in elongation. Now, you might ask what does this information tell me about my rope? Well, it's in relatively good condition and probably still safe to climb with. A simple visual inspection could have determined that, but it couldn't have provided the specific information within in my rope log.

Maybe you don't care about the specifics of your rope? But, at the moment, I do and I find it interesting. And unless it, in some way, is a hazard to my health, why does it matter that I keep one? Keeping up-to-date with a rope log is not a bothersome task for me and I prefer/enjoy doing it. If anyone can determine how a rope log could produce negative effects (other than those I mentioned previously), I expect you to speak up for the benefit of us all.

I've retired 0 ropes, so that should tell you something about my experience on subject of retiring a rope and the integrity of what I have to say on the topic.

My current (and first) rope has been in service for just over 15 months. It's seen 40 days of climbing, ~307 pitches, 29 lead falls, and been washed once. With this information I can produce numerous figures... I climb, on average, 7.6 pitches/day. I (or someone climbing on my rope) takes a lead fall about every 10.5 pitches. The rope is showing some wear in the sheath, but no damage to the core and no change in elongation. Now, you might ask what does this information tell me about my rope? Well, it's in relatively good condition and probably still safe to climb with. A simple visual inspection could have determined that, but it couldn't have provided the specific information within in my rope log.

Maybe you don't care about the specifics of your rope?

I've retired 0 ropes, so that should tell you something about my experience on subject of retiring a rope and the integrity of what I have to say on the topic. I wouldn't go so far as to assume I know nothing, but time and experience speaks for itself.

My current (and first) rope has been in service for just over 15 months. It's seen 40 days of climbing, ~307 pitches, 29 lead falls, and been washed once. With this information I can produce numerous figures... I climb, on average, 7.6 pitches/day. I (or someone climbing on my rope) takes a lead fall about every 10.5 pitches. The rope is showing some wear in the sheath, but no damage to the core and no change in elongation. Now, you might ask what does this information tell me about my rope? Well, it's in relatively good condition and probably still safe to climb with. A simple visual inspection could have determined that, but it couldn't have provided the specific information within in my rope log.

Maybe you don't care about the specifics of your rope? But, at the moment, I do and I find it interesting. And unless it, in some way, is a hazard to my health, why does it matter that I keep one? Keeping up-to-date with a rope log is not a bothersome task for me and I prefer/enjoy doing it. If anyone can determine how a rope log could produce negative effects (other than those I mentioned previously), I expect you to speak up for the benefit of us all.

Please enlighten me on how I can improve my rope log to better provide useful information with respect to the integrity of my rope, Mr. Thompson.

Please enlighten me on how I can improve my rope log to better provide useful information with respect to the integrity of my rope, Mr. Thompson.

I've kept a rope log since I bought my first rope. It's just a small composition book that fits nicely in the rope bag pocket. After each trip I record the date(s), location/crag, # of pitches, and # of lead falls. I'll also record other info such as wash dates/detergent used or any other incidents worth noting. This book is really more of a generally estimation of the wear and tear my rope has seen because there are many subjective factors to consider. I do not simply retire a rope based on numbers and dates. I must agree with the majority of the discussion in that feeling for imperfections and visual inspection is a far better way to determine the condition of a rope than a simple rope log. However combing the information found in a rope log with visual inspection would be beneficial. Also, it's often interesting to look back through the rope log after a year or two and realize how many amazing places you've been and recount how many pitches/lead falls your rope has seen.

No more, not less.

Here is what your rope log should look like.
DATE PURCHASED _____

If more than 5 or so years have passed start thinking about getting a new one even if the rope still looks and feels ok.

That is max extent that I have ever done. then I figured that I were through a rope long before it gets too old to climb on.

Look and feel of the rope is the most important. If you feel safe to use it then do, if not make a rope rug. step two get a new rope.

That's clearly unsound advice.

Jay

Isn't that pretty much what we all do?

Curt

I try to be more objective about it.

Jay

Is there a certain amount of abuse that will cause you to retire the rope or do you just like to log?

Most of us retire a rope for chemical reasons, if it gets cut or core shot, if it's too fuzzy, has sheath slippage, or holds a factor two fall.

Does the rope log tell you something different?

Do any of you rope logging types record how many times you brutalize it working your project on TR or how many times your buddy yarded his girlfriend through some ledgy 5.5? Hell, get a whole crew together for an afternoon of casual TR cragging and it's like gang rape to a rope. And yet, some people seem to be logging things like "lead falls." What, exactly, can I expect one "lead fall" to do to my rope?

I think standard rope logs border on useless, unless you're an institutional user, and even then, IMO, their value may be limited to what you need to maintain your organizational certifications. Glad some folks here are talking up regular inspections, instead.

I was going to go climbing with this friend from the gym, she had rope, I had draws. She called and cancelled, because the question of her rope safety. It was 3 years old and only climb 10 times with 2 falls. Without inspection, I said it should be fine, but she cancelled anyway. On the other spectrum, I have climbed with friends and have questioned them about their rope age and uses. These guys climb hard and almost every week. One of the ropes was showing so much ware, when flaking the core was in huge pieces every 5 ft. No body wanted to use it, even the guy whos rope it was. That rope was used the previous weekend. The rope we did use had snags in the sheath, but the core was solid. I think it is about your personal safety.
And Dude, don't you guys in Rescue use a less stretch rope and have a use number? I asked because work for Houston Fire and that is what one of the Captains told me. In fact, I might get to go to the tower and try resuce rapelling.

I've seen rope rugs, but never seen a rope log.

Wouldn't a rope log release all kinds of toxic fumes?

I do like to log but it's more than that. I seriouly consider the ropes retirement when it starts racking up falls above factor one. This ensures a safety margin that I like. I know the rope is tested for consecutive factor two falls but thats also on a brand new rope. In the end the decision for retirement is mostly based on physical inspection. I won't pretend that I'm not a little OCD about my gear. It's a luxury I can afford.

Out of curiosity, how many of those ">than factor 1" falls do you have on your log? How do you determine that your fall was more than factor 1? And how often do you take those falls?

^^^ This isn't out of curiosity. This is out of desire to ridicule.

Here is what your rope log should look like.
DATE PURCHASED _____

If more than 5 or so years have passed start thinking about getting a new one even if the rope still looks and feels ok.

No, it's out of a desire to call "bullshit" on bullshitters.

Jay

Yes. That is why you keep the log and the rope in different rooms.
Also, make sure you use a special Rope Log Pen. PM me if you need one and I won't charge you much (S&H not included).

No, it's out of a desire to call "bullshit" on bullshitters.

Jay

I have no falls on either rope greater than or equal to factor one.

A fall factor of one or larger is when the distance you fall is equal to or greater than the amount of rope between you and your belayer. Not too hard to figure out. You'd know if you fell a factor one or greater. I don't use a tape measure though but go ahead and ridicule away. I don't mind... Or call BS. A good example of a factor one would be twenty feet up you place a second piece. While placing lets say you step in batshit and slip and fall before you have clipped. The piece below holds your fall and you fall to the same elevation of your belayer. Hopefully this was the second pitch and not the first. You fell 20 feet with 20 feet of rope. That is a factor of one. To get a factor two you must fall past your belayer having ripped out all pro but the belay anchor. Or before your first pro is set you fall on ten feet of rope from ten feet above the belay to ten feet below that belay station totaling 20 foot fall on ten feet of rope.

I have no falls on either rope greater than or equal to factor one. The largest I've had would less than half of a factor. 16 foot fall on 40 feet of rope. If you haven't figured out by now, I am a conservative climber. I rarely lead something that I have doubts about being able to do. If I'm skectched about a climb I back off or toprope it, or have my partner lead it.

We all have our own reasons for climbing. One of my reasons for climbing isn't falling though. Some people enjoy falling. I'm not one of those people.

To add fuel to the fire I'll volunteer this tidbit. I don't boulder much at all because there is no rope to catch me. I don't think my spotter can do much more than keep me from landing on my head. I have an intense fear of breaking my ankle. Plus I'm not that good. I just like to have fun. I push myself only to the limit at which I feel safe. I am almost always thinking what would happen if I fell. Even on really easy stuff. On average I climb only once a week or less. I think that answers most of the Q's and exposes me for the climber that I am. CuckaccuCourage!

P.S. I like the idea about the log for the rug. I never really thought of that.

I told Lena how I calculate a fall factor because Lena asked. Retire your rope whenever you like. I never said to retire a rope after two floor sweepers. Read the post and don't take it so seriously. No hard feelings, okay?

To be fair, you told Lena how to theoretically calculate a fall factor. But she asked you how YOU calculate a fall factor after taking a real world fall. Cause you CERTAINLY don't fall and say "boy, that was a 12 foot fall on 134 feet of rope". Thats for sure!

Sweetness, I've been looking for those. Do you also have logbooks for the pens themselves? Kinda like to keep track of what that pen has been doing... My only Q is what should I use to log the ropelog pen log? Another rope log pen? If so I'll need more pens and more logs.

How about this. If I look over and see my belayer after a fall then it was pretty damn close to a FF1. If after a fall I look up and see my belayer then it was better than a FF1. Otherwise I can only guesstimate. You guys are acting like I peed on the virgin mary here. I answered a couple questions that people asked me. Thats it.

I told Lena how I calculate a fall factor because Lena asked. Retire your rope whenever you like. I never said to retire a rope after two floor sweepers. Read the post and don't take it so seriously. No hard feelings, okay?

Shit man, i don't know...that sounds more complicated than trying to explain why you would use a rope log on rc.com...

I keep a rope log because I keep a rope log. Posted this to see what others do and think on that topic. If my rope gets a lot of falls FF1 or better I'm not going to be happy with that rope. Hypothetically should a rope of mine accumulate ten falls of that nature I will seriously consider it's retirement.

A good example of a factor one would be twenty feet up you place a second piece. While placing lets say you step in batshit and slip and fall before you have clipped. The piece below holds your fall and you fall to the same elevation of your belayer.

Hopefully this was the second pitch and not the first.

I might just be way off here, but where exactly in the rope booklet or on any of the rope websites does it say: Do not take more than X number of >FF1 falls. ?

I'm sure if it was an issue they would have told us.

As far as I know it only says retire after a FF2 fall.

And also in a FF1 fall I'm sure the pro and the belay system absorb alot of the energy in any case.

Show me where I've been talking out my ass and I'll consider your demands. I'm pretty open to laying it out on the table for you to see. Maybe you misunderstood me...

How about this. If I look over and see my belayer after a fall then it was pretty damn close to a FF1. If after a fall I look up and see my belayer then it was better than a FF1. Otherwise I can only guesstimate.

I keep a rope log because I keep a rope log. Posted this to see what others do and think on that topic.

No worries notapplicable. From your posts it seems like your a good dude. I apologize for my poor communication skills. I can see that I could come off as a know it all or something. I guess I overdo it sometimes typing or saying too much in great detail. Trying to find the middle ground of saying enough to be understood.

I keep a rope log because I keep a rope log.

Show me where I've been talking out my ass....

I might just be way off here, but where exactly in the rope booklet or on any of the rope websites does it say: Do not take more than X number of >FF1 falls. ?

I'm sure if it was an issue they would have told us.

As far as I know it only says retire after a FF2 fall.

I've been watching this thread since I responded on the first page and Jay, you're the only person who's consistently decided to jump down this person's throat because of a comment or two that were not even directly relevant to the topic they posted about in the first place. Go pop a Vicodin or something so you can ease the tension. Seriously did you get beat up so much as a kid that you feel the need to be a loud mouth everywhere you go to prove how superior you are. STFU for once. Find a lady friend (boy friend?) to help relax you. Yeah, people say some dumb shit, you're not exempted, so don't take it so seriously when it happens. Now before you throw a shit fit why don't you go read a book or watch TV for a little while and calm down.

And don't worry about the cranky know-it-alls with thousands of posts on this site. Your best bet is to ignore them.

Years ago I went to Seneca fairly late in the season. My friend forgot his guide book, so we stopped in to the Gendarme to pick up a new one. The former owner chatted for a minute, sold us the book, and said good bye. As we hit the door, he said, "Just remember - if you get benighted at Seneca it's only an emergency for you." Just because the advice has an edge to it doesn't make it false. I personally apply that to some of the seasoned members of this site. YMMV.

Dear Jay,

I apologize for giving you the wrong impression. Should not have led you on that way. Please don't call people names. Someone will get their feelings hurt sooner or later... Can't we be friends in the meantime?

It says neither. It says to retire your rope after a single "severe" fall, or words to that effect. A factor-1 fall is pretty severe: its maximum impact force is theoretically about 80% of that of a factor-2 fall. So I'd consider retiring my rope after one factor-1 fall, depending on what other use it had seen.

Jay

It says in my brand spank me new Beal Topgun II 10.5mm rope in blue coloration standard 60m rope booklet : "the rope must be retired earlier: if it has held a major fall approaching fall factor 2."

So it says approaching fall factor 2. As far as I can see it is very difficult to reach a greater that FF1 after the first clip. The only way to even come close is to fall directly on the belay, and then it usually is a FF2.

So given that one cannot really get close to FF2 without actually doing a FF2, I would say that is what the booklet says.

As far as I can see it is very difficult to reach a greater that FF1 after the first clip.

http://www.rockclimbing.com/...post=2232368#2232368

Jay

I seriouly consider the ropes retirement when it starts racking up falls above factor one.

WAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!

What a pussy.

Thank you, Jay. You are one of the few people who consistently stands up for the cause of culling the n00bs.

Spread the attitude of discouragement wherever you go.

Keep it up.

EDIT2: So what does approaching FF2 mean???

If you free solo and take a fall you get a FF infinite which I think is pretty fycking severe.