Wire gates. Across the board. They are safer

Not across the board there not. Wiregates are far more likely to open from the gate getting caught on the rock then solid gates are. But solid gates are far from immune to such. I use mostly Petzl Spirits and I have fallen on a draw with the gate open four times so far in the past few years. In two cases the hanger side biner gate got hung up on a piece of rock and opened slightly, in one case the bottom biner gate got hung up on the rock and opened slightly and in the last case the bottom biner opened due to striking the rock well I fell. In only one of those cases would have wiregates helped.

Thus at the end of the day the safest draw is the one that is the correct length, the one that has the gates facing the right direction, and the one with the highest open gate strength.

Don't go for those stupid thin dogbones. The thicker ones are easier to grab. This is not advocating to grab your draws all the time, but is a very useful tool when you start working really hard routes for you. Those who argue that you should never grab a draw don't work routes that are hard for them.

Notchless nose solid gate on the top to make it easier to clean from blots when you're done with the route.

Wire gates for bottom biner for easy clipping (wire makes a nice flat spot that your finger won't roll off).

that or they are just willing to take the fall

This is correct. End of discussion; and it will be until the notchless wiregate is invented.

This coming from the 5.9 sport climber? Yeah, you obviously have a good handle on these things.

DMM Shield and WC Heliums. I don't use them for sport draws, but all my trad racking biners are notchless wiregates.

Edited to add:
My draws do have notchless solid gates on the hanger side, but standard wires on the rope side. Easier to remove from the gear loop, easier for the 2nd to remove from the hanger. Rope side is standard wiregates, haven't felt the need to upgrade them to notchless.

DMM Shield and WC Heliums. I don't use them for sport draws, but all my trad racking biners are notchless wiregates.

Edited to add:
My draws do have notchless solid gates on the hanger side, but standard wires on the rope side. Easier to remove from the gear loop, easier for the 2nd to remove from the hanger. Rope side is standard wiregates, haven't felt the need to upgrade them to notchless.

the new petzl ange are notchless, too.

take it easy princess, Does it look like i update that log frequently?
Also that log does not list what i fall off. I'll have you know i've fallen off some serious 5.13s

In all seriousness i wasn't trying to flame you i was just saying some people prefer to take the fall over grabbing a draw. When in the past i've grabbed draws its been scarier than a clean fall.

Hope you have fun falling off your 5.13s, I think I'll actually work things out and send some hard routes instead.

Maybe someday you'll understand what "working a route" really means.

God damn you! Now I have to go out and spend money that I don't have...

all this from someone who if i judge her by her logbook, as she has judged me, has her proudest ascent as hangdogging an 11.
Well yes clearly you are a vastly superior climber to me in every respect. So ignore my points about grabbing dogbones and have fun "working a route" (aka french freeing and hangdogging the crap out of moderates.

And in case you have the capacity to look past the flame throwing i will repeat

In all seriousness i wasn't trying to flame you i was just saying some people prefer to take the fall over grabbing a draw. When in the past i've grabbed draws its been scarier than a clean fall.

Yup, three seasons ago I could top rope 5.11b clean. You sure showed me! I probably haven't improved at all since 2006.

For the love of pete, update your log. Last update was fall 2008, less than a year and a half ago. You've only had one season to improve since then! What else am I supposed to think?

It was an honest mistake, so please get your panties out of that bunch.

Understand that there's a lot more to working a route than falling over and over again till you finally hit the sequence right. You keep talking about grabbing draws when you're scared, THIS IS NOT WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. I'm talking about efficiently working out moves on a route you want to redpoint. I don't care if I'm a better climber than you or not. I just know how to work routes, and you are obviously very inefficient at it.

...I own and use the Petzl Heliums...

GO

WTF izzat?

D'oh! Brain fart! Of course I meant DMM Heliums! Sorry if I confused anyone!

hilarious



GO

D'oh! Brain fart! Of course I meant DMM Heliums! Sorry if I confused anyone!

GO

that or they are just willing to take the fall

Strike two!

Jay

Buy whatever is cheapest. If money is no object, a bunch of keylocks are nice. If you're carrying a poop load of them, wires sure are nice too.

I completely disagree. Get something you like straight away, or you will just end up replacing it down the road, spending money twice is never cheap.

"I'm not rich, I can't afford to buy cheap stuff."-- forgot who said that, and probalby butchered it in double-translation, but it is often true, isn't it?

I like it, it's russian I presume? What's the original I'd like to be able to use it.

No, I think it actually was first said in English, but I first heard it in Russian-- my grandfather was fond of saying it-- and just now I translated it back to English.

I googled it-- and came up with "I am not rich enough to buy cheaply" attributed to anonimous...

Strike two!

Jay

Oh hell. Thanks for the catch. Heliums are made by Wild Country.

G

This is correct. End of discussion; and it will be until the notchless wiregate is invented.

Man, everybody's stealing the design!

What about the Mad Rock Ultralights?

Yup, three seasons ago I could top rope 5.11b clean. You sure showed me! I probably haven't improved at all since 2006.

For the love of pete, update your log. Last update was fall 2008, less than a year and a half ago. You've only had one season to improve since then! What else am I supposed to think?

It was an honest mistake, so please get your panties out of that bunch.

Understand that there's a lot more to working a route than falling over and over again till you finally hit the sequence right. You keep talking about grabbing draws when you're scared, THIS IS NOT WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. I'm talking about efficiently working out moves on a route you want to redpoint. I don't care if I'm a better climber than you or not. I just know how to work routes, and you are obviously very inefficient at it.

What about the Mad Rock Ultralights?

I wish! Maybe then they wouldn't be so damned expensive.

Sadly my repeated misstatements do nothing to break the monopoly WC has on the design, so expensive they remain.

GO

Why not TR it then until you've dialed in the moves? Why bother with falling or grabbing draws on lead if all your doing is sussing out the moves?

I use them, and like the way they clip, but the superlights would probably be better for dedicated sport climbers so that you have the keynose bolt end. I use them for both sport and trad and am appreciative of the low weight. They are way cheaper than other draws, but still work fine. Its not the quickdraw that gets you to the top, it just catches you when you fall.