mreardon, I'll have you know I've climbed with Mike Freeman, Mike Freeman is a friend of mine and, mreardon--you're no Mike Freeman. (no offense meant to Lloyd Benson here, hahahahaha)

Curt

Hey I'm italian, and I am part of a minority. I'm always the only italian when I go climb :)

Does that means I get to climb before you?
:lol:

What a pointless, incoherent, rambling, contradictory article. An Italian climbing in the US is not a minority climber, likewise an American climbing in Italy is not a minority climber. I can't tell whether the author is homophobic or not; he makes statements to both effects. Where is this nonsense coming from anyway? What is the basis for making the claim that these are "the three most common fallacies stated by climbers"? Who said there are NO minority climbers?

I know plenty of Democrats who climb. I don't get why that's important.

In fact, I know a liberal who took a 20' minority whipper the other day. 8)

What a pointless, incoherent, rambling, contradictory article. An Italian climbing in the US is not a minority climber, likewise an American climbing in Italy is not a minority climber. I can't tell whether the author is homophobic or not; he makes statements to both effects. Where is this nonsense coming from anyway? What is the basis for making the claim that these are "the three most common fallacies stated by climbers"? Who said there are NO minority climbers?

Absolutely. Gotta' have some privileges for being one of the few :D

Thank you. It does my ego proud to know I was one of your first eight posts. I look forward to further contributions by you to this site and the rock climbing community.

Just two things: an American in Italy is a minority to the local Italians, especially if he doesn't know the language. And I never claim to be homophobic, but obviously I touched a nerve.... :D

An Italian climbing in the US is not a minority climber, likewise an American climbing in Italy is not a minority climber.

I can't tell whether the author is homophobic or not; he makes statements to both effects.

What is the basis for making the claim that these are "the three most common fallacies stated by climbers"?

Who said there are NO minority climbers?

Here is my ninth post. Is my opinion more legitimate with nine posts rather than eight? Or do I need one thousand more?

what is your point?

And hey, since you're here give me a belay.
Dynamic please.
Oh, do you have a smoke too?

How am I going? :lol:

What a pointless, incoherent, rambling, contradictory article. An Italian climbing in the US is not a minority climber, likewise an American climbing in Italy is not a minority climber. I can't tell whether the author is homophobic or not; he makes statements to both effects. Where is this nonsense coming from anyway? What is the basis for making the claim that these are "the three most common fallacies stated by climbers"? Who said there are NO minority climbers?

Mike,

Who was in charge of watching the n00bs tonight? Things are getting out of hand here. :lol:

Curt

I couldnt of said it better myself...freaking nonsense...

Mike,

Who was in charge of watching the n00bs tonight? Things are getting out of hand here. :lol:

Curt

Hey Curt,

I am a noob to this site, sure, but why would one assume that that makes me a total noob? I've been climbing for 8 years, I would think that would move me out of the noob category, no? And why is it considered out of hand to give an honest opinion on an article? The author asked for feedback.

mi·nor·i·ty:

1. The smaller in number of two groups forming a whole.
2. A group or party having fewer than a controlling number of votes.
3. An ethnic, racial, religious, or other group having a distinctive presence within a society.
4. A group having little power or representation relative to other groups within a society.
5. A member of one of these groups.

Webster's says: "you're a putz."

I can remember an argument prior about minorities where Bumblie and others were claiming that there were no blacks climbing because of socioeconomic status. That's what prompted this satire and he's angry because I called him on it and proved he was wrong.

His response was to troll and trail me in every one of my posts and constantly lying and hating. I think he actually wants to havbe sex with me, but that catholic upbringing makes me too old for the younger boys he prefers.

I can take the slander, but it only shows you for what you are, incompetent to debate.

I think you see the world the wrong way if it even occurs to you that you see minorities, or anything other than people climbing.

What I do know is , I am happy to climb with anyone who can give me a safe belay .

I should also point out, the reason you don't see many blacks climbing is because climbing is considered "stupid daredevil white man stuff" in a great part of the community.

For me, I never really noticed until one day someone pointed out to me that non-Caucasian climbers are (I should say were, as this was a long time ago) a rarity. I thought about it and said, "Wow! I think you're right. I wonder why that is." And, having had it pointed out to me, I kept my eyes open for a while, and whatta you know, it was true! Not good, not bad, just an observation someone made that happened to be correct, at least at that time and place.

Sooo....that's all I get out of it. Seems to be true at least where I climb. Why? No idea. No one's advanced any ideas I find particularly plausible, either, so it just remains a bit of puzzling but ultimately irrelevant trivia.

Rob

Fascinating- an article that was published with a comment box at the end, and which generated a grand total of two comments; one negative, one positive. Having generated no more interest than this with the standard commentary invitation (and from a "Featured Article", no less!), forward-thinking strategists apparently decided to start a thread about it in Forums, ostensibly to fish for responses to a rather poorly-written and rambling discourse on not much of anything....

Kind of like having a book-signing tour for a book that didn't really sell, isn't it?

I have to say , that I've not seen one African American since I begin climbing . I occasionaly see Spanish , and most often Asians . Granted , I have not been climbing a very long time . Obviously they are out there , but not in huge numbers . It was the same way when I played Ice Hockey .. I played for 8 years , and not just in a local league but on a travel team , and I can honestly say I encountered less than 5 African American players .. Who knows , there are probably a lot of factors . But if you start listing the most likely of them , a lot of people will get riled up . What I do know is , I am happy to climb with anyone who can give me a safe belay .

That's kind of interesting. I still wonder if that's the root cause. Climbing's considered dangerous by just about every community.

Arrogant and thin-skinned.

Incompetent to debate? Really?

my observations about minorities and climbing. I don't think climbing is a sport discriminating against gender or ethnicity. but I think climbing (especially gym memberships and trad climbing) requires above ave. income.

Arrogant? Yes. Thin-skinned? Nope. Incompetent to debate? I'm still waiting for you to step into the ring. If your next one is just another lame personal attack (from the comfort of your keyboard) then I'll pass. I'll let the community members play that game with you. I've got a cheese grater that will be more fun to masturbate with.

A while ago, there was a heady pile of words that there were minimal to none regarding minorities on the rock. The problem was that most people equated "minorities" with being "black" which was absurd. Even more absurd was the rambling reasons for it.

The real shame is that this ignorance went too far to the point that there are a handful of folks that honestly believe this is strictly a white sport. In the end, I don't believe that, but then again, I live in Southern California where most of my climbing partners are asians, mexican and/or blacks. Then again, so is Southern California.

I think you see the world the wrong way if it even occurs to you that you see minorities, or anything other than people climbing.

Obviously, you don't have a problem commenting from the comfort and safety of your keyboard. :roll:

A fine example of irony. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Or would hypocrisy be more apt? :roll:

There exists an evident financial hurdle to start climbing, and those not as economical-advantaged will require more determination and resourcefulness to surmount it.

Climbing and adventure sports don't have the same appeal to minorities as they do whites. A common perception among our melanin endowed brethren is that white people can't compete at the same level as blacks in organized sports at an elite level, so we turned to extreme sports to achieve without encountering head-to-head competition with others who have the genetic advantage of a higher percentage of fast-twitch muscle fibers. Is this true?

Possibly, but the majority of climbers I have met throughout the years tended to be athletically inclined people that did not gravitate to team sports in the first place. Climbing and other outdoor sports filled a vacuum.

Most of the colonial expansion and exploration around the world was accomplished by Europeans. Is it not possible that a cultural or genetic component exists within whites that makes us agitated enough to venture forth at great risk/gain? That may be why some people are completely satisfied getting their kicks at a neighborhood basketball court, while others of us are not happy unless we consistently sample a variety of climbing areas all over the world.

For whatever reason, extreme sports just do not appeal to minorities. They'll do their thing, and we'll do ours. If larger numbers of them see an interest outside of conventional sports, they will be welcomed.

Marc B.

Great article, I just have one question. When you say sport climbers are gay, do mean anyone who sport climbs or just those that sport climb exclusively. Because i climb sport, but i also climb other ways. Does that make me gay, or just gay when i sport climb? I would like to get married, and if I am gay pretty soon Massachusetts will say that i can't. So you see, it would really benefit me more if I was heterosexual. I am so confused.

JOsh

It has been proven by the Republicans in charge that if gays are allowed to marry, then chaos will reign and pretty much everyone and their dog will immediately revert to becoming a homosexual. I know that once I got wind of gay marriage being allowed to happen, I immediately started divorce proceedings and am currently revising my Republican status to Liberal so that Curt and I can live in mixed-marriage bliss. I just need permission from his wife, or at least the Arizona courts.

Lynn Hill - "more determiantion and resourcefulness"

I believe there's a correlation between race and social-economic status.

I don't know Mike. My wife is pretty open minded so most of this would be OK with her. She would, however, come totally unhinged if she finds out you are a blonde. :D

Curt

How did that article make the front page?

That was one of the worst articles that I have ever read. It didn't seem to have a point or even a sentence of relevent fact. This is a climbing site not a political debate. Who cares if there are minorities climbing? If you do then you (mreardon) ARE the racest. The only ones I care about at the crag are me and my partner.

Also, are you yourself gay or stupid? I ask this just out of curiosity because at first you say that all sport climbers are gay and then you say that you went out clipping bolts.

How did that article make the front page?

It's not money. Climbing just doesn't really cost that much. A few thousand for a trad rack that you can use for a few decades (less replacing the soft bits) is nothing compared to what people of all types spend on cars, houses
Rob

My best guess is that more blacks do not climb because climbing is perceived as a "white" activity. Some other posters in this thread have mentioned basically similar thoughts.

I asked Mike Freeman years ago, why there were so many great black athletes and so few black climbers. He told me (among other things) that he had tried to interest some of his black friends in climbing, but that none of them showed the slightest interest in trying it.

Mike also had a sailboat at the time that he would sail along the New Jersey shore. He also could only get white friends of his to sail with him--perhaps also because this is viewed as a "white" activity.

Curt

The lack of abstract thought/reasoning, reflection, and/or introspection still amazes me. Unbelievable!

You're right. But knowing as many poor climbers as I do, I find it tough to believe that money is what separates climbers from non-climbers.

All sarcasm aside, what is a bit bothersome is that there really is a perception by many in the climbing community that there are few minorities in this sport. So why is that? Is it:

1. Demographics of an area.
2. Access by minorities.
3. The definition of a minority.
4. Money.
5. The European conquerer proposal stated earlier.
6. Media ignorance.
7. Climber ignorance.

None of the above, something completely different, or everything all at once?

I don't think about climbing minorities much, and I think I might even be one...

PS Black people love me.

Chouca…chouca..chouca

It’s hard to decide where to begin when confronted with such ignorance and stupidity. It’d also be unjust if I didn’t mention how blatantly racist your remarks on this forum have been.

The reason why there aren’t any cultures that expanded like the Europeans is because no other culture had such an insatiable drive.

http://www.rockclimbing.com/articles/view.php?ID=266 - So what's the truth out there? Do you believe the fools who think minorities aren't out there?

:roll: I know a lot of blacks here in the USA. I have never met one from Africa? (oops I take that back, a runner from Nigeria, now he is an African in america)......... So are the rest of us, Irish americans, Haitian americans, Jamaica americans. Italian american........? Me, im an american despite what color I am or where my great grandfather came from. Thats not to say you shouldnt be proud of it, but if you live and was born in america, I believe you are an American, not african, Irish or what ever...........

However, climbing is not "marketed" to minorities. I meet quite a few black people at my favorite pool hall on Saturday nights and most of them are unaware of any specifics. Obviously, they aren't stupid. They know what I mean when I say "I rock climb," but it isn't promoted like basketball or football is to minorities, which is really stereotypical, but that's the way this country works.

Still, it comes down to how things are marketed. If Nike made a climbing shoe, the sport of climbing would be advertised more heavily and most likely aimed towards minorities (i.e. Michael Jordan hanging from a sloper 100' feet off the deck) and would generate an influx of new climbers from all walks of life.

Basically, between what is and is not marketed and to whom and society that pushes minorities to ethnic-specific sports (i.e. black people and basketball or hispanic people and soccer, etc) is why there aren't more climbers from certain races.

At least, that's how I see it.

My best guess is that more blacks do not climb because climbing is perceived as a "white" activity. Some other posters in this thread have mentioned basically similar thoughts.

I asked Mike Freeman years ago, why there were so many great black athletes and so few black climbers. He told me (among other things) that he had tried to interest some of his black friends in climbing, but that none of them showed the slightest interest in trying it.

cut

Curt

I didn't want to tell you guys, but rock climbers are a minoritiy.

So are whites! Take a look around, if you're white, you're a minority. I went for a business loan 2 years ago. I was told if I am not a women or a minority, there was no need to apply. Go figure, I think we should just all get along....how about that?