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numbnut
Feb 1, 2005, 12:24 AM
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Is there any such thing as a "moderate" grade VI free route. The only thing I can think of that comes close is the reg route on Half dome. But most don't free the zig-zags.
I'm talking about a 5.10 or mid 5.11 free route up a huge face. Is there such a thing? If there is I wish to climb it. Something that without a doubt would take the average human acouple of days to do.
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slavetogravity
Feb 1, 2005, 12:29 AM
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The first thing that comes to mind in the NE Ridge of Mt Selesse found outside of Chiliwack British Columbia. It’s one of the 50 Classic Climbs of North America. I did it a few years ago. We did the original Fred Becky variation that starts directly off the toe of the ride and it was done in about 28 pitches of class 5 climbing. Most being in the 5.7/5.8 range with a few 5.9's thrown in for good measure. Took us two days.
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bandycoot
Feb 1, 2005, 12:31 AM
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The two longest routes that I've done are Resolution Arete and Darkstar. These are both significantly taller/longer than RNWFHD. Darkstar has one pitch that contains ~30' of 5.10. Resolution Arete has two pitches of one move wonder 5.10a-c and one 7' 5.12ish roof that can be quickly aided. I don't think that most people spend the night on long moderate routes due to the suffering that ensues trying to haul. It is much better to just blast in a day. Is that what you are looking for? Or do you want to spend the night? You could bivy on either of those routes easily although it's just not fun bringing bivy gear/water/food on 3000' of climbing if it's not needed.
Josh
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numbnut
Feb 1, 2005, 12:32 AM
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Oh yeah I think I remember seeing that one in there. Thanks.
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numbnut
Feb 1, 2005, 12:35 AM
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Yeah but resolution arete and dark star are still grade V's. They go quick. I'm thinkin' that for something to be at a fairly reasonable free grade (up to mid 5.11 for me) it has got to be butt long to warrant a grade VI rating. Isn't the troll wall in Norway really big? Doesn't it host some mega 5.9 on it?
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slavetogravity
Feb 1, 2005, 12:37 AM
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The Beckey/Chouinard on the West Buttress of the South Howser Tower in the Bugaboos is also Fn’ huge. Often done in two days. But a strong party can knock it off in one. It’s free at 5.10.
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iamthewallress
Feb 1, 2005, 12:40 AM
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In reply to: Is there any such thing as a "moderate" grade VI free route. The only thing I can think of that comes close is the reg route on Half dome. But most don't free the zig-zags. I'm talking about a 5.10 or mid 5.11 free route up a huge face. Is there such a thing? If there is I wish to climb it. Something that without a doubt would take the average human acouple of days to do.
I cringe when people dismiss 5.10...in particular 5.10/Grade VI... as moderate, but 5.11 Grade VI's are not moderate. Not even for the superheros. Sponsored climbers still fix ropes on the RNWF and work the hell out of the crux pitches...which are rated 5.12... to revel in that free-shoe-worthy tick. Eating popcorn on the sofa is moderate.
But some 5.11 and under very long climbs that I can think of in Yosemite are...
Galactic Hitchhiker on Glacier Point Apron.
Maybe Royal Arches/Dakshina or RA/Crest Jewel Direct? Though technically two routes, you never stop climbing upward till you top out on the North Dome. It would be more like a long route with a wicked long 3rd class pitch.
Is the 5.11 West something route (Face/Butress...I get confused which is which) considered a Grade VI or V?
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numbnut
Feb 1, 2005, 12:57 AM
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The west face of el cap is a grade V. A burly V but a V nonetheless. The first response was along the l;ines of what I was thinking of. Also the Galactic hitchiker or whatever it's called is too. Some thing with maybe a couple tough pitches but tons of cruiser pitches too. Like a northwest buttress of higher Cathedral rock on top of The East Buttress of el cap with a couple of 5.11 pitches thrown in. How good would that be? That has to exist somewhere in the world.
Disclaimer: This thread is just me rambling bored after work wishing I was in the middle of such a climb. Thanks for your responses.
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poorboy
Feb 1, 2005, 1:02 AM
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If you put up with a "little bit" of aid you could potentially find more moderate grade VI (mostly) free climbs.
The Nose is 75% free at 5.11 I hear.
Similar deal with the Salathe.
Galactic Hitchhiker is 40 plus pitches 11b, you could bivy on that for sure.
Rainbow Wall is supposed to be mostly 5.11 with a bit of 12 (Grade V).
Tricks of the Trade is only supposed to have 60 feet of aid, and goes at Grade V, 10+.
Stetind in Norway has a large wall with a 50 pitch route, supposedly. http://www.summitpost.org/show/mountain_link.pl/mountain_id/3406
Troll Wall is supposed to be rotten and nasty. Isn't there a 5.11 route up the Hand of Fatima that's pretty big?
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iamthewallress
Feb 1, 2005, 1:28 AM
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Red Rocks cognoscenti...What is the longest link-up that you can do up to the Painted Bowl and then up to either the top of the Rainbow (Wall/Butress...again I get confused on which is which) or the Eagle Wall? Anything worthy of a VI?
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brent_e
Feb 1, 2005, 2:06 AM
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There is a great article in Alpinist 7 regarding the troll wall. It might be on their site, too. alpinist.com
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vegastradguy
Feb 1, 2005, 2:09 AM
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if you were fast, and i mean damn fast, you could link up Black Orpheus and Lev 29 with a bit of work. That'd go at something like 20 odd some pitches and .11ish. Be a hell of a day, though- I think you'd be 4th classing/rappelling for about 30mins or longer between the two. This is probably the longest linkup in the Painted Bowl/Eagle Wall area possible...there's a couple other big climbs back there like Mountain Beast and Dances with Beagles that may be a good backup plan if L29 is occupied.
another (possibly more likely) option is one i've been pondering, but havent done yet. It's the Burlesque/Northeast Arete linkup in Icebox. If you did Frigid Air Buttress instead of Burlesque, i think that would be even longer. While only 5.9+ at the crux, it would be one hell of a day, and the two climbs are separated by several hours of 4th classing and the odd 5.9OW pitch. other possibilities for this include possibly Unfinished Symphony instead of Frigid Air, which would take it up into the 5.11 range- although I'm not entirely sure you can do this one, because i dont know that Unfinished Symphony tops out in a place that you could get to where you needed to go to continue.
those are the only two i can think of right now, although there could well be others possible. anything that big in RR though would involve lots of scrambling and falls into the category of adventure climbing...
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wingnut
Feb 1, 2005, 2:17 PM
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Russian Route (VI 5.10 A4, 1100m, Koshelenko-Ruchkin and Baltica (VI 5.11- A3+, 1300m, Odintsov-Potanikin.
those are VI's.
VI takes 3 or more days to climb i think.
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vegastradguy
Feb 1, 2005, 3:09 PM
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grade VII takes 10 or more days.
grade VI takes anywhere from 2 to 5 days for the average person (basically any line on El Cap is a grade VI)
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dingus
Feb 1, 2005, 3:11 PM
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There is a super long moderate free climb somewhere on Baffin, don't remember the route or the formation, but it was in one of the rags a few years back. Grade V or VI middling 5.10 as I recall. That route seemed to fit your bill, though getting to the base may be a tad expensive...
some dudes were going for a bigger climb but bailed and did this one instead.
DMT
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rockprodigy
Feb 1, 2005, 3:14 PM
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I think you need to be thinking in the alpine arena. Canada has some huge faces that might be what you are looking for, but I'm not sure if they apply the Grade V/VI title to these routes.
The East Face of Mt. Babbel is a huge wall (see Mark Twight's selection in Fifty Favorites). I believe that is commonly done in a day, but it probably still warrants the Grade VI, and is all free at 5.11.
The Becky-Chouinard is definitely a Grade V. Successful parties do it in a day pretty easily, those who choose to bivy usually end up bailing because it is so rare to have two good days in a row in that area. There is a route on the same formation called "All Along the Watchtower" that Topher Donahue and Kennan Harvery freed at 11+ or 12-...it's pretty long, though I'm not sure it's a VI.
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yosemite
Feb 1, 2005, 4:00 PM
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If you don't mind adding a significant horizontal component, there are long traverses in the Sierras - Sawtooth, Palisade, Minaret, etc. rated as VI. I'm sure other ranges have similar. Is the big link up in the Tetons a VI?
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johnhenry
Feb 1, 2005, 4:21 PM
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Ray Jardine, and presumably Royal Robbins, rate the West Face of El Cap as a grade VI. It goes at 5.11. Here is one of the few pieces of info on it available on the web:
http://www.rayjardine.com/magazines/1979-mt69/westface.shtml
That looks like a beautiful line. Can anyone through in some more info?
Cheers,
john
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cologman
Feb 1, 2005, 4:34 PM
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Both Baffin and Greenland have long hard free routes earning the Grade VI moniker. Cirque of the Unclimbables in Cananda has long free routes any much new route potetial. Pakistan for the brave & adventurous, then of course you could head to Antarctica. They are around and I think most climbing in that arena would agree that grade VI - .10 or .11 is a bit more than :wink: moderate
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takeme
Feb 1, 2005, 5:07 PM
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The Black Canyon has at least a couple VI 5.11 free routes, on the Painted Wall. I don't know that anyone would call them moderate though. Long runouts, sketchy gear, loose rock, major route finding problems, etc. They do look quite spectacular from the base of the wall.
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mattm
Feb 1, 2005, 5:16 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Is there any such thing as a "moderate" grade VI free route. The only thing I can think of that comes close is the reg route on Half dome. But most don't free the zig-zags. I'm talking about a 5.10 or mid 5.11 free route up a huge face. Is there such a thing? If there is I wish to climb it. Something that without a doubt would take the average human acouple of days to do. Galactic Hitchhiker on Glacier Point Apron. Maybe Royal Arches/Dakshina or RA/Crest Jewel Direct? Though technically two routes, you never stop climbing upward till you top out on the North Dome. It would be more like a long route with a wicked long 3rd class pitch.
Haven't done Galactic Yet but this came to mind for me as well.
The RA/ Crest Jewel Link up is a LONG day if you're fast. I did that right before they finished the Direct start (seriously, I think it was posted the day I got BACK from the valley - DOH - Guess I'll have to do it again. Darn) Anyway - RA to Crest Jewel isn't bad and a GREAT long day. I did it just shy of 10 hrs car to car.
I wonder if you can link My Favorite things that goes up clouds rest with anything? Someone done it? http://www.mindspring.com/~thharper/FTTopo.html
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rockprodigy
Feb 1, 2005, 7:34 PM
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In reply to: The Black Canyon has at least a couple VI 5.11 free routes, on the Painted Wall.
Grade 6, 5.11's??? I'll admit to not being super familiar with the Black, so what are they?
Grade 4's and 5's, yes, but I don't think there are any that go all free and are called 5.11.
PS, A pretty good long one I have done there is Stoned Oven, and that's a stretch to call it Grade 5.
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jsj42
Feb 1, 2005, 7:57 PM
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In reply to: if you were fast, and i mean damn fast, you could link up Black Orpheus and Lev 29 with a bit of work..
If I had to rate this I'd call it IV, MAYBE grade V.
How about doing a climb on the lower east face of Long's to a climb on the Diamond? You have lots of options to choose from, and it would be pretty convenient to stack two grade IV's or a grade IV and a grade V together with minimal scrambling on Broadway.
I had heard once that the Southern Arete in the Black was "the longest 5.10 in Colorado (at grade V)." Charles, I'm also curious what are the grade VI's in the Black?
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mattm
Feb 1, 2005, 8:19 PM
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More thought given to this - I think it's really hard to have moderate grade VIs. Since the grade is based on time on route more than length of route you're fighting a difficult battle - the easier it gets the faster you go and thusly the longer the route has to be to get the "VI" status. I think if you're looking for a long continuous route the recommendations of linking or more likely doing ridge traverses will get you the length you want. Croft's Evolution Traverse for example. If spending the night isn't really what you're looking for and cruising a REALLY long day is the goal - linkups are the best bang for your buck. Head to squamish and do Ultimate Everything, Borderline to Angels Crest and The Grand Wall for a full day at 11a max. Or up the ante and go Grand Wall , Millennium Falcon, Freeway for lots of 10 and 11 climbing.
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takeme
Feb 1, 2005, 8:29 PM
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Grade VIs in the Black: Stratosfear, VI 5.11+ X and the Serpent, VI 5.11+, merely R/X. As listed in BC Rock Climbs.
It's my understanding that Stratosfear is usually done in a day, so maybe it should be a V, but then again only highly skilled, fast teams do it at all. And, it has benighted very strong teams like Pennings/Jim Surrette (sp?), Jeff Achey/Mark Synnott, and others. Where's Alpinestylist, I think he's done it.
The Serpent, on the other hand, has only seen 2 or 3 ascents by very strong parties including the FA in 1999, and they all took 4 days (including portaledges!), so that seems like a pretty worthy candidate!
The Painted Wall is amazing...to look at.
Sorry for the spray about routes I'll never do.
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tim
Feb 1, 2005, 8:31 PM
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In reply to: Maybe Royal Arches/Dakshina or RA/Crest Jewel Direct? Though technically two routes, you never stop climbing upward till you top out on the North Dome. It would be more like a long route with a wicked long 3rd class pitch.
I've done RA/Crest Jewel in a day with Thomas Keefer. We dispatched the Royal Arches in 2 hours and Crest Jewel in about 3. Even with the 4 (?) added pitches of the Direct, I have a hard time believing that it could be Grade VI. (The longest part of the day was descending from the top of North Dome!!!)
Mike said that the Gayley/Temple/Sill traverse was probably Grade VI, about 5.10+ (he soloed it so don't trust that ;-)). The Evolution and Palisades traverses are both Grade VI, 5.10ish; personally, although my goal for this season is to get up the RNWFHD and (somewhat less likely) the Nose in a day, I have had a lot of fun on Grade IV/V alpine traverses and will probably spend more time working towards Grade VI free climbs in the High Sierra than anything in the Valley. But, you never know.
Romantic Warrior was initially a Grade V (?) according to Eddie Joe, but 1) it's 5.12+ and 2) most people seem to consider it a IV these days. If you can free that, though...
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takeme
Feb 1, 2005, 8:42 PM
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In reply to: How about doing a climb on the lower east face of Long's to a climb on the Diamond? You have lots of options to choose from, and it would be pretty convenient to stack two grade IV's or a grade IV and a grade V together with minimal scrambling on Broadway.
Yeah, maybe that would be right along the lines of what the OP wants. Actually, Pervertical was started from Mills Glacier on the FA and rated grade VI, and it's a pretty direct line. Like everyone I've only done the upper half, but the lower pitches do look like they have some really nice cracks on them. I guess that would be VI 5.10+, though if it got done a lot, would the VI rating really hold up?
Something like Red Wall on Chasm View Wall is very linkable with Diamond routes, as Broadway extend essentially to the last pitch of Red Wall.
I think Directagonal to Yellow Wall (VI 5.11b or so) was popular (relatively speaking) in the 80s, and the bad-ass thing now is apparently Diagonal Direct to D1 or King of Swords. Of course, these links were all done in one very long day by hard men, so does that make them Vs or VIs? I confess to not understanding the rating system well enough.
And then there's always Kor's Door to Pervertical :wink:
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jsj42
Feb 1, 2005, 8:50 PM
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In reply to: ...and the bad-ass thing now is apparently Diagonal Direct to D1 or King of Swords.
Damn. I'll just blame my slow metabolism for not being able to do things like this.
How about Cruel Shoes to the Grand Wall to Roman Chimneys? Thats like 20 pitches with MANY between 10+ and 11+...
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iamthewallress
Feb 1, 2005, 8:51 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Maybe Royal Arches/Dakshina or RA/Crest Jewel Direct? Though technically two routes, you never stop climbing upward till you top out on the North Dome. It would be more like a long route with a wicked long 3rd class pitch. I've done RA/Crest Jewel in a day with Thomas Keefer. We dispatched the Royal Arches in 2 hours and Crest Jewel in about 3. Even with the 4 (?) added pitches of the Direct, I have a hard time believing that it could be Grade VI. (The longest part of the day was descending from the top of North Dome!!!)
Some people can climb the Nose before breakfast, but it's still a VI.
I know that calling RA a IV is sometimes contentious. I've done it in ~3 hours and I've also done it sun up to sun down my first time on it. Which time did I count as "an average party?"
My reasoning on that link was that RA is considered a grade IV. I don't know what the official length rating for Dakshina or Crest Jewel Direct is, but linked to RA, it's like 30 pitches. Because no one in their right mind would haul all of that, people only do it when they're ready for the push. Combined, it still seems like a hell of a lot more climbing to me than other Grade V "moderate" free climbs that I've been on (following).
The RNWF of Half Dome is still considered a VI although it seems that it's becoming pretty standard to do it IAD, perhaps with a base bivy, and if people haul, they tend to go light and do it with only one on route bivy. The existance of so many speed demons makes the designation less meaningful as it's hard to decide who has the "average ability" that is refered to when decided what the grade should be.
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jsj42
Feb 1, 2005, 8:54 PM
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As a tangent, what type of 5.12 is on the RNWF of Half Dome? Cruxy? Sustained? Sandbagged?
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rockprodigy
Feb 1, 2005, 9:14 PM
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In reply to: As a tangent, what type of 5.12 is on the RNWF of Half Dome? Cruxy? Sustained? Sandbagged?
I've heard conflicting reports, and since I haven't tried it, I should probably shut up.
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vegastradguy
Feb 1, 2005, 9:25 PM
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i'd call black orpheus/l29 an easy grade V...in the books, Black Orpheus clocks in at grade iv, and levitation clocks in at a grade v (i'm not saying i agree, i'm just going off the book)...for the average party, Black Orpheus is an all day event- easily a grade IV- tack on the 10 or pitches of Lev 29 at 5.11, and Grade V isnt unreasonable at all.
of course, if you free 5.11 easily, then maybe Black Orpheus is a grade III and Lev 29 is a III/IV...so, i guess its a relative thing...
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wingnut
Feb 2, 2005, 3:23 AM
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There is such thing as a VII climb.
Azeem Ridge in Pakistan is one of the longest rock climbs in the world at 5.11+R/X VII A2.
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dobbsboy
Jul 26, 2005, 10:37 AM
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a truly "moderate" link up that could possibly be considered grade VI would be to climb Black Orpheus then either do Chicken Lips or Rainbow Buttress. Chicken Lips actually starts from a point of the BO descent. If you did Rainbow Buttress you have to walk off, there are no rap possibilities that i know of. and it is quite a long descent from the top of RB back to the cars.
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azrockclimber
Jul 26, 2005, 1:00 PM
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did tim say that he climbed from the bottom of royal arches through the top of north dome by the crest jewel direct route in 5 hours....Hmmmm....
RA in 2 hrs no prob...soloed it in may at that fast....however....getting from the top of RA ( through the slabs) to the top of ND via crest jewel direct in 3hrs would be super human...well...at least way beyond me anyway.
I guess I want tim to confirm that... I would be majorly impressed.
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mtnfr34k
Jul 29, 2005, 3:26 AM
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The North Ridge Direct of Mt. Stuart in the Cascades is a Grade VI, and I think (THINK is the key word), it goes free at 5.10+/5.11-.
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rhinoryan
Oct 11, 2005, 8:29 PM
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Royal Arches is a grade III according to the old guide books. With modern technology it is definitely not a IV now.
Crest Jewel direct took us about 4 hours, 3 hours would be doable. It is a bonafide version of Snake Dike tilted up a little steeper.
I recommend this linkup more grade V/VI ish:
Climb Serenity Crack 3 pitchs 10d and rap...
Dump the rack back at the car and free solo Royal arches with rope and quick draws on back. You can belay the slabs/pendulum etc with this gear if you need to when you get there.
Climb Crest Jewel Direct 15 pitches and then hike out the NDG. We were maybe moderately quick and started at 6:00 A.M and were back at the car at 4:00 P.M for 10 hours CTC.
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dingus
Oct 11, 2005, 9:06 PM
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Most posting to this thread do not seem to know the difference between a grade V and a grade VI.
This is especially true of us modern Valley trained climbers who have come to think of a grade V as a day climb. Sure, for a well traveled and well cleaned route, grade V in a very long day is doable for *competent* parties. Grade assignments are made on the backs of the able, not noobs. So taking 18 hours to climb RA has no impact whatsoever on its grade rating.
A grade V is 1-3 DAYS. Grade VI is more than 3 days.
Ever done Steck Salathe? That is grade V. Now, imagine yourself climbing that wall with no topo, in the bc, maybe even as the FA... would you think of it as a day climb? Would you start comtemplating grade VI because you doubtless spent a night or two up there?
Grades are assigned on the FA and overall, as expressed by average competent parties.
In the Valley, yes a grade V is a day climb. For some its a morning warmup, but thats beside the point. Leave the cozy Valley and get on a V in the back country, especially one that has seen one or two ascents only.... THAT's Grade V too.
Doing linkups to create artifical V's is surely fun, but it STILL ISN'T grade V.
DMT
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tenesmus
Oct 11, 2005, 10:11 PM
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In reply to: i'd call black orpheus/l29 an easy grade V...in the books, Black Orpheus clocks in at grade iv, and levitation clocks in at a grade v (i'm not saying i agree, i'm just going off the book)...for the average party, Black Orpheus is an all day event- easily a grade IV- tack on the 10 or pitches of Lev 29 at 5.11, and Grade V isnt unreasonable at all. of course, if you free 5.11 easily, then maybe Black Orpheus is a grade III and Lev 29 is a III/IV...so, i guess its a relative thing... |
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vegastradguy
Oct 11, 2005, 11:08 PM
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In reply to: that just sounds like a lot of fun. It would ease the stupid hike to Levitation. The crux would be doing it on a cooler day to avoid hauling a ton of water with you. How far is it to descend the top of Orpheus and down to the Eagle Wall? I've heard its less than an hour.
coming off Orpheus, I've made it back to the base of Solar Slab in an hour, so maybe 30 mins if you know the way. The only problem i can see is that Orpheus drops you into the Upper Painted Bowl, which is actually below the Eagle Wall starting ramp. It looks like you might have to do a roped pitch of a moderate grade or possibly some exposed scrambling to get up there, but i doubt it would take long.
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sspssp
Oct 11, 2005, 11:38 PM
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The zigzags on Half Dome are pretty tough. I haven't tried to free climb it (its out of my range), but I had a good look at it on aid and there are plenty of pretty strong climbers that have tried to free Half Dome and been shut down by this section.
Going back to the original post, I would call the RNWF a moderate grade VI. Its not all free, it has a couple of hundred feet of moderate aid, but I think it is a soft grade VI compared to other VIs in the valley. There are several grade Vs in the valley that are burlier, and harder and slower to get to the top of.
Its a great route and it is not trivial, but I think it is borderline VI.
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tenesmus
Oct 12, 2005, 3:57 AM
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In reply to: coming off Orpheus, I've made it back to the base of Solar Slab in an hour, so maybe 30 mins if you know the way. The only problem i can see is that Orpheus drops you into the Upper Painted Bowl, which is actually below the Eagle Wall starting ramp. It looks like you might have to do a roped pitch of a moderate grade or possibly some exposed scrambling to get up there, but i doubt it would take long.
Long day. Tendonitis day. I had flexor tendonitis for a few months after Epinephrine. It wasn't hard, just long. Never had it before.
That sounds like a lot of fun. You'd have to have your legs under you for sure.
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tim
Oct 12, 2005, 6:27 AM
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quickie post -- someone asked me to confirm RA to CJ direct in 5 hours. I shall do no such thing! Tom Keefer and I linked up RA with regular CJ in a day, took about 2 hours on RA, hiked from RA to the base of Crest Jewel, then fired Crest Jewel in about another 3 hours of climbing. The rest of the day was spent on the descent... we made it to the pizza deck at sunset, after starting from the Ahwahnee parking lot at dawn.
About 2+3=5 hours of climbing and another 9 of walking/hiking/jumping/falling (eg. the descent).
That was fun. If it weren't for all the walking I'd do it again. Never did manage to get on the RNWFHD this season, though I did do a bunch of grade IV's and got stormed off a couple V's. I don't think RA+CJ is anywhere near a grade V, maybe a grade IV for the linkup.
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vegastradguy
Oct 12, 2005, 2:04 PM
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In reply to: I've been on both the ramp and the "shortcut" up the broken area closer to B.O. Isn't it true that you can just veer on those ledges over to it?
dunno, never been to the eagle wall, actually. i suppose anythings possible. i'd be prepared to rope up if you did it and alot about an hour between climbs for route-finding.
and dont rap Levitation- if you're going to go to that much trouble to link 'em, commit to the top!
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dingus
Oct 12, 2005, 2:13 PM
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In reply to: I don't think RA+CJ is anywhere near a grade V, maybe a grade IV for the linkup.
CLIMBING TIME DAMNNIT! If a party of average rc.com blokes spends 3/4 of a day linking two moderate or not so moderate middling routes, that's approaching a grade IV. I don't care if that's 2 pitches or 35, 3/4 of a day's worth of climbing for an average party is a grade IV!!!111
Folks are clearly equating length with grade and that is simply not correct.
DMT
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dingus
Oct 12, 2005, 2:20 PM
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And I don't see how a free climb that went free in a day or two by average climbers could be called a grade VI anyway. If we were somehow able to create this mythical grade VI moderate free climb, say by extending Nutcrack up x number of pitches, how many would we have to add to get grade VI for the average party???
Something on the order of 75 - 100 pitches to push the route out past 3 days (20 - 30 pitches a day of Nutcracker should be doable for any competent climbing party).
There ain't no 100 pitch moderate free routes that I know of... in fact, I'm not aware of ANY 100 pitch routes period.
Upon further reflection I am coming to the position that a moderate grade VI free climb will be truly tough to find and may be non-existent.
Lots of V's though...
DMT
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tim
Oct 12, 2005, 2:20 PM
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I just go by reference -- Sun Ribbon, Ghost Rider, etc. are labeled as Grade IV, and the combination of RA + CJ was about the same length and climbing time as any of those. If we hadn't done Royal Arches in two "pitches" (basically 4th-classed it) maybe it would have taken longer. Crest Jewel was fast because it was bolted.
As far as Grade VI free climbs, Mike Reardon freesoloed the Palisades Traverse in under a day this summer. So I guess now it's a Grade IV?
;-)
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tim
Oct 12, 2005, 2:24 PM
Post #48 of 52
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In reply to: There ain't no 100 pitch moderate free routes that I know of... in fact, I'm not aware of ANY 100 pitch routes period.
Palisades Traverse -- about 120 pitches of climbing up to 5.9...
In reply to: Upon further reflection I am coming to the position that a moderate grade VI free climb will be truly tough to find and may be non-existent.
I'd expect better from someone with a chimney in the Sierra named after him ;-) you're basically saying that Peter Croft doesn't know how to grade a climb, and there are a few people who might disagree with that.
You're leaving out eg. Pakistan, Kyrgyzstan, the Alps, the Bugs, etc. etc., and traverses/enchainments of the above. I don't think a grade VI free climb is unreasonable if you broaden the scope a bit like that.
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dingus
Oct 12, 2005, 2:28 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: There ain't no 100 pitch moderate free routes that I know of... in fact, I'm not aware of ANY 100 pitch routes period. Palisades Traverse -- about 120 pitches of climbing up to 5.9... In reply to: Upon further reflection I am coming to the position that a moderate grade VI free climb will be truly tough to find and may be non-existent. I'd expect better from someone with a chimney in the Sierra named after him ;-) you're basically saying that Peter Croft doesn't know how to grade a climb, and there are a few people who might disagree with that. You're leaving out eg. Pakistan, Kyrgyzstan, the Alps, the Bugs, etc. etc., and traverses/enchainments of the above. I don't think a grade VI free climb is unreasonable if you broaden the scope a bit like that.
Point taken, I hadn't fully concidered traverses. I concede the point. In fact Palisades Traverse and other similar endeavors, may in fact be the best examples in the US.
I stand down sir.
DMT
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karlbaba
Oct 12, 2005, 2:29 PM
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West Face of El Cap at least USED to be a grade VI. Same with West Face of Sentinel.
Both of them are far harder than Galactic Hitchhiker, which is also easier than the DNB. It's not really 40 pitches, it's just that the first ascent party hauled and there's a fair amount of low angle rock so they made their pitches short. That also convinced them that it was a grade VI. If you hauled a heavy bag up Royal Arches it might be a Grade V! TR and Topo on my website.
Peace
karl
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dingus
Oct 12, 2005, 2:33 PM
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In reply to: As far as Grade VI free climbs, Mike Reardon freesoloed the Palisades Traverse in under a day this summer. So I guess now it's a Grade IV? ;-)
While he was an average administrator, OK, below average, the same cannot be said for his climbing. He is not your average climber, period.
DMT
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piton
Oct 12, 2005, 3:40 PM
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In reply to: The East Buttress of el cap with a couple of 5.11 pitches thrown in. How good would that be? That has to exist somewhere in the world.
you can link the moratorium, but i'm sure a strong climber like yourself already knows this. grade IV
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