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collegekid
Jan 18, 2006, 4:07 AM
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I've been gradually reducing my exposure to meat, and have finally decided to become a vegetarian. I'm considering eating Fish, however, since it seems to be healthier than land animals (I've thought about mercury levels though, and that kinda worries me).
I've heard that it is possible to get good nutrition by eating plenty of tofu, beans, and various vegetables.
Any pitfalls I should watch out for? Will this effect my climbing abilities significantly?
Any positives/negatives associated with being a vegetarian, that I may not be aware of?
Reasons I decided not to eat meat:
-Poor health controls in meat industry (i.e. factories with lots of illnesses, lots of hormones, mad cow disease, etc)
-Beef, at least, has high sat. fat
-Animal rights (at least, to the extent that they live in horrid conditions, not necessarily the killing part--which is also related to health of animals)
-resisting unhealthy fast food (heck, if I don't eat burgers, why would I go to Burger King?)
-Saving money (high-quality meat is expensive, and I don't want to eat low-quality meat anymore)
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sbaclimber
Jan 18, 2006, 4:12 AM
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Not being a vegetarian myself, I can't give any personal advice.
But I can tell you this, my previous climbing partner is a vegetarian, and he could outclimb me most days. He also worked out with weights and such, which helped his overall strength quite a bit.
He didn't seem to have any problems that I was aware of. So, if being a vegetarian is your thing, then go for it (more steak for me :wink: )
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styndall
Jan 18, 2006, 4:29 AM
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Pay attention to your B12 intake. I'm sure jt512 will chime in soon; he has a bunch of stats about vegans and veggies and b12 defiency. Watch your diet, talk to a nutritionist now and again, and it won't become an issue. Take care with eating fish. If you eat top-of-the-food-chain type predators like tuna, you'll get more mercury than with smaller and less predatory species. The food chain concentrates toxins in its higher members. Avoid being the most pollutant-rich on your block.
I ate my last bit of flesh five years ago yesterday. I do miss it a bit, but it's worth it.
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weschrist
Jan 18, 2006, 4:41 AM
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I will get a bunch of shit for this because it is "unproven" but ya'll can suck my balls.
I was a vegetarian for about 3 years. I watched my protein intake casually, getting about 40-60 grams a day average, from beans, tofu, nuts, and occassionally eggs.
I started lifting heavy things in a gym as part of a training program. Part of the training program suggested increasing my protein intake to about 90 grams a day, so I started eating tons of tofu. My hands started hurting like hell! It hurt to tie my shoes, etc... I figured I was over training and took a few weeks off while keeping the protein intake high... NO improvement. I started training again really light but couldn't do it, it hurt to bad. I ended up taking 4 very long months off of climbing and just did aerobic exercise, keeping the tofu and soy protein intake high since that was the easiest way to get vegetarian protein. After 4 months I saw ZERO improvement in my condition.
During those 4 months I saw 5 Dr's, had X-rays, tried massage, tried accupuncture, stretched, damn near anything I could... nothing worked.
It was time for a road trip and I hadn't climbed for 4 months but I figured I would go anyway (mainly because my girlfriend was still psyched). Pain on the v2's, pain on the 5.7's, pain with damn near everything... bitch bitch bitch... just trying to let you know how bad it was.
So a friend told me it might be my diet. "WTF are you talking about, I eat healthy..." So I kept track of what I ate and how my hands felt. To make a really long story slightly shorter, my hand pain was a DIRECT result of eating legumes... including soy and peanuts! I stopped eating those and haven't had pain since... except when I eat a Krispy Kreme, which is cooked in soybean oil.
Later I found out that most soy on the market today is genetically modified, and heavily modified at that. Other information I looked at said the incidences of allergies to soy are sky rocketing... faster than any other food. If you doubt me and can't effectly search the internet for yourself I can find it again.
Anyway, something to think about. I would much rather eat organic grass fed beef than genetically modified plant substances. Of course, when comparing average soy with average hormone-antibionic-chemical soaked meat you are probably better off with the vegetarian option.
And a pre-emptive note: when something is labeled "Organic" it does NOT mean it is non-GMO... the big companies lobbied hard for that one and got it!
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annak
Jan 18, 2006, 4:53 AM
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Your reasons for becoming a vegetarian sound very superficial... I can assure you that a veggie burger from Burger King is just as bad as a regular one... Maintaining a balanced and healthy vegeterian diet is much more challenging and expensive than a natural one.
Have you ever wondered why do you have these canine teeths, in the first place?
What I would like to see is some numbers -- e.g., % of vegeterians among athletes, climbers or not. Consider posting a poll...
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firstchair
Jan 18, 2006, 4:57 AM
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I've been a vegetarian for 9+ years and a climber for 4. Can't say I've had health issues...period. As far as protein intake goes, some types are better than others. If you're really really worried about it, whey is highly absorbed by the body.
And don't forget the added thrust provided by a diet loaded with legumes...
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styndall
Jan 18, 2006, 5:00 AM
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In reply to: Have you ever wondered why do you have these canine teeths, in the first place?
I hear this fairly often, and it's really just a silly argument.
Have you ever wondered what your appendix is for?
Do you believe that your biological structure determines the moral choices you make in life?
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eyecannon
Jan 18, 2006, 5:04 AM
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I haven't eaten meat in 3 years and been climbing for 2. I do not consider myself hindered in any fashion because I don't eat the stuff. However, I do keep close track of my protein intake and try to get 75-100g per day depending on activity level.
The only downside is people will constantly try to make fun of you for it, so be prepared to deal with that. Also, don't ever try to convince a meat-eater to become vegetarian, they will go berzerk on your ass.
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veganboyjosh
Jan 18, 2006, 5:06 AM
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in general, as with most things in life, keep it balanced, don't overdo anything, including training or climbing or intake of tofu or whatever, and you'll be alright.
jt512 has the b12 stats, for sure. check some of his older posts on veganisim + climbing, etc.
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weschrist
Jan 18, 2006, 5:35 AM
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And another bit of advice... having spent the last weekend with a 6'6" vegan eating machine, I highly suggest you invest in BEANO!
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mink
Jan 18, 2006, 5:39 AM
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I've been a pseudo-veggie for 16 years - i still eat eggs and fish but rarely eat shellfish (just can't give up sashimi!). I eat a lot of tofu, soy beans and nuts etc as well. Gave up meat because I just didn't like the way it looked (yeah, I'm odd, don't ask) and in the attempt to eat healthier. The only real difference my GP noticed is my iron level is low, but I'm not anemic, just deficient. Supposedly (I'm not medically trained) the lack of iron can bring on fatigue more easily. And the old wives tale suggests that your extremities may get cold more easily if you have iron-deficient blood. You can boost your iron level by eating lots of dark green veggies (spinach, broccoli, brussel sprouts).
I don't seem to notice any strength difference - I still run 35-40 miles a week at a 7:30-8:00 minute/mile pace and I am climbing (indoors) at least once a week - although I'm still at a beginner level. So I don't seem to see any fatigue or strength issues.
Having said that, my extremities do get cold quite easily. Generally speaking, if the temp is less than 72-74 degrees, I'm pretty cold.
As far as fish for "fuel" and the mercury content issues with fish, check out this month's issue (Feb. 2006) of Runner's World magazine. There is a short article on fish and the potential issues with certain fish, what to avoid and what is good/safe.
Hope this helps.
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organic
Jan 18, 2006, 6:07 AM
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I was a vegetarian for 2 years and have been climbing for 3 years. I have not been vegetarian for around 6 months now in which I have gained over 15 pounds of muscle and have been climbing harder than I ever have.
If you are a "climber" most people can survive as a vegetarian. If you climb and train obsessively and don't have the time and money to supplement your diet you will suffer.
In the past 6 months I redpointed 5.12 and climbed V6, coincidence, maybe...
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sixleggedinsect
Jan 18, 2006, 6:21 AM
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In reply to: I've been gradually reducing my exposure to meat, and have finally decided to become a vegetarian. Any positives/negatives associated with being a vegetarian, that I may not be aware of?
ive been meat free for a decade or so, and have kept my ears perked to mentions of it in the climbing world. every couple weeks or so, it seems, someone says that they, or 'their friend' was veggie and was having (insert chronic musculoskeletal problem here) trouble until they started eating red meat and it suddenly cleared up and they could immediately run a 4 minute mile and climb 5.13 and so on..
i don't know if these anecdotes hint at some truth. and theres always the psychology of placebo to wonder about. i do know that the nutrition references that ive toyed with dont seem to condemn veggieism, as long as you keep an eye on things.
In reply to: I've heard that it is possible to get good nutrition by eating plenty of tofu, beans, and various vegetables.
as for whether you can get your protein? sure! i find that eating 80 grams a day is no trouble if you think about it a bit. off the top of my head, a bean burrito dinner with a smidgen of cheese is around 35g complete protein. enriched whole grain pasta can be 35g or more protein in a dinner size portion, depending on what you buy. add cheese or soy milk or whole grain bread or textured veg protein to anything and get another dose. ive foudn that tofu is too expensive and finicky for me, and has a lot less protein in it than i expected. making sure you get enough iron, calcium, b vits, etc is another thing entirely and is worth reading up on. but i digress.
basically: anecdotally, i feel fine. but i hear of a lot of folks who claim dramatic athletic healing/training improvements once quitting the veg life. i always wonder whether different foods, or specifically meats, would suddenly turn my occasional lingering injuries into thoughts of the past.
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sixleggedinsect
Jan 18, 2006, 6:25 AM
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In reply to: I was a vegetarian for 2 years and have been climbing for 3 years. I have not been vegetarian for around 6 months now in which I have gained over 15 pounds of muscle and have been climbing harder than I ever have.
so- im curious. i hear this all the time.
assuming you havent suddenly started a different training regimen in the last 6 months, do you think this positive trend is due to a deficiency before? did you pay attention to what you were eating when you were veggie? could you take a guess about your protein intake, whether you were eating varied foods/proteins? taking supplements?
curious,
anthony
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mink
Jan 18, 2006, 6:33 AM
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To Organic's point, I do feel like I don't get quite enough protein and if not monitored, I can become prone to running injuries. The diet suits me well as I try to keep my weight down for distance running and the figure lean (I'm a girlie girl who prefers to maintain a svelte figure :oops:).
I don't necesarily encourage a veggie diet, it obviously dependent the personal preferences. Its a pain the neck when I'm traveling, particularly outside the US, since my grasp of foreign languages is limited, and my family is just about sick of cooking "special" meals for me. Now when I'm home, I stick to salads and tofu just to make mealtime easier. At this point, I'm used to it, I don't like meat, and it seems to work for me, so I'm sticking to it. I just wanted to point out that it is do-able. It just depends on how diligent you want to be about monitoring your health (beyond the obvious vitals) and what you're trying to accomplish in your climbing (or whatever other sports you do).
Also, my previous running /climbing partner has been a vegetarian (eats eggs and dairy, no meat/fish) for over 20 years. He too is an ultra-distance runner (e.g. >100 mile runs) and climbs 5.10+ (with other climbing partners, not me). So the dietary restrictions don't seem to limit him either. This is obviously just another random data point - not a precise lab experiment.
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tyson16v
Jan 18, 2006, 7:09 AM
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i find it hilarious that everyone thinks that to be vegan or vegetarian, you must eat a bunch of tofu to get your protien. if you relied strictly on tofu for you protein intake, then no shit you got sick and defficient in some areas. there are many other forms of protein that do not come from animals, and taste great.
i have been cruelty free for 15 years and climbing for 20. i am healthy as they come. my wife and i live as vegans and raise our dogs as vegans. our vet says he has never seen healthier dogs. http://vegancats.com/
if you want to become vegan, then there are a million websites and groups that will help you on your way to a healthy, 100% active lifestyle.
many prominant athletes are vegan, and are kicking butt.
it is so easy for people to blame a meatless diet on their shortcomings.
if you do it right, you will be very happy in your choice.
if you do it wrong, you will find an easy excuse to go back to killing things.
please take a look at these websites. there are many informative things that will help you live life cruelty free, and most importantly, healthy. they also have great recipes that will help you get away from the boring tofu.
http://vegan.org/
http://vegweb.com/
http://veggielife.com/
and regardless of what people think about peta (i dont agree with all their tactics), they do have some great stuff on their sites.
http://www.peta.org/living/
feel free to send me a message if you have any questions.
please folks try not to take my statements as offensive. i do not try to preach to much about this stuff and really do not judge you on your lifestyle choices.
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porcelainsunset
Jan 18, 2006, 9:42 AM
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Power to you man. Good luck, stay strong! Your on the right path. Don't listen to these people trying argue logic with you regarding your teeth. Stay in moderation and you will be fine. I personally would advise you to continue eating fish, it's good for you, and I gathered from what you said that it is within your morals. Just keep a head on your shoulders, and stay peacefull about the whole thing.
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kikibatlubbin
Jan 18, 2006, 12:07 PM
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Looks like you have enough replies, but here is one more. I've been a vegetarian for 40 years. Is that longer than you've been alive? My only problem with climbing is gas. I have had some embarrassing moments on tough moves. By the way, vegetarian gas does not reek like carnivore gas -- but it can be loud.
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leezerdgirl
Jan 18, 2006, 12:10 PM
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I have been vegetarian for 18 years, vegan for the last 16, climbing for the last 3 of that. I wasn't climbing in my meat-eating days, but as a vegan I don't seem to be particularly better or worse or more injury-prone than my meat-eating friends.
It doesn't really matter to me why a person chooses to be veg or not, although I admit I think people should hear the arguments on all sides and make an educated decision. All I can say is that if you're considering going veg, read read read everything you can on the subject as well as talking to people. That way you're more likely to make a choice that is right for you.
As far as health goes, it's possible to eat well or poorly on any diet, with or without meat. Being vegetarian, you do have to put some thought into what you eat and what supplements you take, but if you eat a variety of things, including varied sources of protein, you'll be fine. Just don't be a junkfoodatarian.
On protein: Just about everything you eat automatically has protein in it, and most people overconsume protein. Protein is only stored in the body as muscle and other tissue, so if you don't use the protein you eat in a day you just pee it away. The high protein diet craze seems to be on the wane and is being replaced by an emphasis on the importance of whole foods and variety, which in my opinion is a good thing.
Interesting factoid: Human breast milk, which is the perfect food for a baby that is growing faster than it ever will again and which will double its birth weight in six months, gets only 3% of the calories from protein. In comparison, spinach is 49% protein. Lentils are 29%. Cabbage is 22%. Even watermelon is 8% protein and pineapple is 3%. In fact, about the only whole, natural food that I can find on my charts which has less than 3% protein is apples (1%).
At the risk of overemphasizing this point, the World Health Organization sets its protein requirements at 4 1/2 % of calories from protein per day for men, similar for women. The Food and Nutrition Board of the National Academy of Sciences gives 4 1/2 % as a miminum daily requirement and then adds 30% "for safety", which results in a recommendation of 6% of calories from protein as being adequate to meet the needs of 98% of the US population. The 2% who need more protein than that are people like competetive body builders, endurance atheletes, people fighting cancer...maybe climbers too, but it's hard to believe that the average climber (not talking Tommy and Beth here) need 5 times the protein of 98% of the population.
Bottom line: as long as you're not eating just junk food and starchy vegetables, you'll be fine. If you eat a variety of whole grains, nuts, legumes, fruits, and vegetables and take a multivitamin--animal products optional--you'll be in great health. Unless of course you have an allergy to something you're eating.
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mr-pink
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Jan 18, 2006, 12:28 PM
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Just go veg!
I've never had any prob's with b12, protein, anything else because of being vegetarian.
As long as you eat a healty meal, you can just skip the meat (eating tofu, seitan, beans, whatever does help^).
(a healty meal isn't mcdonalds)
I'm 16 now, and I've been vegetarian since I was 10 (own choice), so i'ts also healty for kids.
I can't really tell about the climbing better/worse since, because It's a long time ago since I've climbed eating meat.
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todddarling
Jan 18, 2006, 1:29 PM
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"because It's a long time ago since I've climbed eating meat. "
A vision of a person 50 ft up on a climb with a turkey leg in one hand popped into my head!
My wife and I are cutting way down on meat (working toward cutting it out) I have a friend that is vegan and we've had a lot of talks about protein and energy. He's very active (hiking, skateboarding, Etc.) I haven't gotten him to climb yet. In his words "I don't need another hobby to spend money on, right now".
He was telling me of all the things you can get protein from and I was surprised . It makes it harder to go out some places. He got a soup that was on the menu at a Chinese place and it was listed as vegetarian but t was made with chicken broth. Other then things like that he's very healthy. I think I've seen hm with a cold like once in 3 years.
I'll get some recipes from him and post the links.
Todd
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weschrist
Jan 18, 2006, 2:20 PM
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In reply to: and raise our dogs as vegans. our vet says he has never seen healthier dogs. http://vegancats.com/
whatever. I don't believe it. Vegan dogs? Talk about contrived and unnatural!
In reply to: you will find an easy excuse to go back to killing things.
There will never be an easier excuse than "life feeds on life feeds on life feeds on life"
In reply to: please folks try not to take my statements as offensive.
Not really offensive, just silly.
BTW, being bipedal myself I decided to start raising my dog as bipedal to reduce his impact on the envirnment... 2 prints are better than 4...
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chill41
Jan 18, 2006, 2:23 PM
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Here's one more vote for going veggie. I've been raised vegetarian all my life and been climbing off and on for the last 10 years. I did try meat for a couple of years and found that it made me feel really full and usually sick to my stomach.
I have to agree with others here that my biggest complaint about being veggie is the chronic gas, but hopefully that's just a price that my partners are willing to pay :)
CHill
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fishbelly
Jan 18, 2006, 2:25 PM
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Do you believe that your biological structure determines the moral choices you make in life?
I practiced a vegetarian diet for several years. Kept me lean and helped performance.
If a veggie diet makes you feel better about yourself and the world , go for it. But, diet has nothing to do with morality. It's opinion and perception which you are entitled to.
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weschrist
Jan 18, 2006, 2:25 PM
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In reply to: By the way, vegetarian gas does not reek like carnivore gas -- but it can be loud.
ha! whatever, I make my Vegan friend sleep in my closet when he comes to visit, for that reason alone... no lie.
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