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maurice
Jun 8, 2001, 6:27 PM
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In the gym i go to the routes are marked in this V system, what do they correspond to in american,or english?
i have found a few different sources saying
different things.Does anyone know?
So whats V1
or V2?
Thanks
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fiend
Jun 8, 2001, 7:43 PM
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The V scale (or Hueco scale) is the grading system used for boulder problems. These grades are the equivalent of the hardest moves on a route.
eg. V3= aprox. 5.10b
This means that if you were to condense a 5.10b climb into a smaller boulder problem it would be rated V3
V0 and V1 should be in the 5.9 to 5.10a range. Anything below V0 is usually given a grade of 5.8 or lower.
-mark
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maurice
Jun 8, 2001, 8:13 PM
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Hey thanks, that straightned that one out..
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fiend
Jun 8, 2001, 8:19 PM
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no problem
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offwidthclimber
Jun 8, 2001, 11:58 PM
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V3 is not 5.10b. 5.10b is like V0. V3 is 5.11+.
Here's the breakdown.
V0- .9
V0 .10-
V0+ .10+
V1 .11-
V2 .11
V3 .11+
V4 .12-
V5 .12
V6 .12+
V7 .13-
V8 .13
V9 .13+
V10 .14a
V11 .14b
V12 .14c
V13 .14d
V14 .15a
http://www.bouldering.com/bouldering_ratingsconversion_cha.htm
http://www.climbing.com/Pages/rockcraft/Bouldering/rockcraft-bould-ratings.html
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maurice
Jun 9, 2001, 3:05 AM
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cool, that means i can make 5.11 climbs, thats a big improvement for me..
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maurice
Jun 9, 2001, 9:15 PM
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i know that the two are competely different, ut i just liked the sound of 5.11, thats all.
I have cimbed also , but nowhere near the standard of 5.11, i was juts trying to get a feel for my level, you're right though, i agree..
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trevor
Anonymous Poster
Jun 10, 2001, 4:28 AM
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Another 2 HUGE problems with rankings are:
1) A 5.11c in New York is not the same as a 5.11c in Nevada. Which one is harder? Who knows! Unless the same person climbs both routes within a short time period, you really can't know if you are comparing apples with apples.
2) Someone who climbs a lot of caves and inverted routes may get on a flat wall and may feel like a beginner...and the reverse is true. You can apply this same concept to different type of rock.
Conclusion: Just because you climb a 5.12a granite overhang in North Carolina, doesn't mean that you can climb a 5.12a sandstone slab in Utah. And trying to compare bouldering with sport climbing is even more meaningless.... However trying to compare them is still interesting!
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fiend
Jun 10, 2001, 4:12 PM
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This is another example of how grades are subjective. There are about 60 different grade conversion charts out there and the one I looked at showed V3 to equal 5.10b. 8a.nu
[ This Message was edited by: fiend on 2001-06-10 09:13 ]
[ This Message was edited by: fiend on 2001-06-10 09:15 ]
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offwidthclimber
Jun 11, 2001, 1:32 AM
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hey fiend, i see where you got the 10b, but just so you know, the 8a.nu chart isn't right. every other chart i've seen has V3 at 5.11+.
and as others mentioned, trying to equate bouldering abilities to sport climbing abilities or vice versa is difficult. just cause you can do V4 doesn't mean you can do 5.12a. i spent a couple months exclusively bouldering this last winter and while i could do V4, i nearly got spanked on a 5.10c because my stamina had gone to hell. the holds felt huge and the moves casual, but i got a wicked pump quick!
peace all.
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clipngo
Nov 12, 2001, 4:17 AM
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There are as many different ways to train for
strength and endurance as there are routes at any major climbing area. Your best bet is try several over a period of time find what works for you and stick with it. Good Luck.
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timhinck
Dec 25, 2001, 1:07 AM
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Hey Climboy:
I sympathize with what you are saying. I think that the goal is to rate boulder problems so that it would take as much effort to climb a V3 as a 5.11d/5.12a. But I think this is where the problem comes:
most people rate boulder problems on how the crux move compares to the crux move on a route. That means that most V3's just have a single move that equals the single crux move on a 5.11d. But then you think about all that climbing before and after the crux on the route. That means that the route will be much harder than the boulder problem. But that is also why you can climb a V7: because if it were being compared to a 5.13 route, you COULD probably do the three or four moves on the 5.13 that compare it to the V7, but with all the climbing before and after, you end up not being able to climb the 5.13, but you can climb the V7 with just 4 moves.
Does that make sense?? I think mose people can boulder a few grades harder than they can climb.
peace,
tim
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geckobean1
Sep 1, 2002, 1:29 AM
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I think offwidthclimber's scale is right. So far the hardest i have climbed is 5.11, and bouldered V2. Which by his chart are equal.
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bluesky
Sep 1, 2002, 8:26 PM
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Too many variables in these Vscale/YDS conversion equations to nail down concrete answers... but opposed to others on this thread I did my first 13 before my first V7. A few years ago I did my first 12+'s before doing my first V6.
These conversions are sometimes useful for comparing routes verses boulders. For example, I could describe a 5.13b that I've worked as a 5.11b vertical pocketed wall to a crux 8 foot horizontal roof with a rounded lip which breaks down into a v3 to a clipping stance and a v6 to the anchors. But that would be a little anal wouldn't it
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jt512
Sep 1, 2002, 11:03 PM
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For what it's worth, Climbing trainer/author Heather Sagar-Reynolds says that a well-rounded climber should be able to boulder three letter grades higher (on the YDS scale) than s/he can redpoint a route. She equates V3 to 5.12a and V6 to 5.12d. Thus, a 5.12a redpoint climber should be able to send a V6 boulder problem.
This means I should be able to boulder V8! Uh oh, I better get to work on my bouldering.
-Jay
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cholo
Sep 7, 2002, 12:05 AM
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grades are totally subjective, but I don't think that most people necessarily boulder harder than they climb. Some climbers are better at bouldering; some are better at endurance.
For example, I know of plenty of "route climbers" who can't boulder the equivilant V-grade. Most 5.13a's don't have any moves even close to V7 (The "equivilant" bouldering grade). The cruxes tend to be more like V4 to V6 at the most w/ some additional 5.11 or 5.12 climbing up to or after the crux -- as a generality. There are just so many variables out there:
individual strengths
fast twitch/versus endurance athletes
reachy moves/scrunchy moves
different ratings in different areas
Sandbags vs. soft grading
trad vs. sport
slab vs. overhang
conditions
blah, blah, blah the list is almost endless
you just can't quantify the experience like it's some kind of science, yet you can still see progression in your own climbing, which is interesting.
The biggest lie I ever heard as a beginner climber was when I asked about a route I had done that was rated 5.10a. I had really wanted to do a 5.10 and it being the first, I asked the local climbing guru the difference between all the 5.9's I had done and that 5.10a - 'cause I sure couldn't tell the difference. He said, "when you've been climbing for a while it'll all make sense." He was plainly full of shit!
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curt
Sep 14, 2002, 9:25 PM
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As I see it, here is the biggest problem with ratings correlations--especially between climbing routes and bouldering. I know and climb with people who have no problem doing sustained, rope length climbs of continuous 5.9 or 5.10 moves. Some of these people, however, can not execute a single V5 (5.12) move on a boulder. The converse also can be found. I know plenty of boulderers who can fire off a couple of V5 moves, but who would be swinging on the rope after 50 feet of pumpy, sustained 5.10 climbing on a route.
That is why the comparisons are a rough guide and (at best) will be pretty close for the aggregate of all climbers, even though a correlation may be pretty far off for an individual person, or when applied to an individual climb.
Regards,
Curt
ps. I also would like to add that I think the chart farther up this thread by "Offwidthclimber" is pretty accurate. It seems to be about the same as the conversion chart that I supplied John Sherman and appears in his book "Stone Crusade".
[ This Message was edited by: curt on 2002-09-14 14:30 ]
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philip
Oct 2, 2002, 2:48 PM
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For gym climbing I think the bouldering and leading ratings coincide. I boulder V7 /8 and I climb 5.13a- which is about V7-ish. Also while outdoor 13a which can be 150 ft may only have a V5 or V6 crux, a 30/40 ft gym 13a usually will have a V7 crux to it since it's not really testing endurance. However I should note that the 13a's I've done have been overhung and bouldery. I strongly doubt I could lead a vertical or slab 13a *shudder* inside.
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hyhuu
Oct 2, 2002, 3:39 PM
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Even though the V-scale and the YDS grades are not equivalant, I think the V translates to YDS rather well but not vice versa. Here is my point: At a certain V grade, like many have said, the "equivalent" route grade will not have any move equally hard, the hardest moves will be about 1-2 V grades lowers. So as a boulderer, with some extra displine by doing 4x4 by the end of your bouldering session, will generally have no problem climbing the "equivalent" route. But as a route climber of that grade, one will find it's extremely hard trying to pull the "equivalent" V-grade because no amount of endurance can substitute for the power. Like Yaniro once said: "If you can't pull a move then there is nothing to endure".
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boulderingmadman
Oct 2, 2002, 8:14 PM
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though "offwidthclimber" has the right idea in his translation of the YDS to v-scale conversion...ther really is no direct translation.
boiuldering and routeclimbing are different aspects of rockclimbing. its almost unexplainable how some routes feel "bouldery" anbd some boulder problems "feel like a small route", but it happens. there is a different feeling to a bouldery sequence and a route, IMHO.
with that said, trying to corelate bouldering and routeclimbing is a practice in the art of futility. if you cant even reasonably compare the climbs from the gunks to tuolomne meadows, and they are both YDS systems, how can you expect to realistically correlate two different aspects of the sport?? its like trying to correlate mixed climbing grades to bigwall grades. it just doesnt work...
and thats without even beginning to consider the sheer relativity of ALL grades in general...
[ This Message was edited by: boulderingmadman on 2002-10-02 13:16 ]
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spider-woman
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Oct 3, 2002, 12:13 AM
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I completely agree about the crappy rating systems. Well, I guess they aren't crappy. It is just that so many factors go into grading the rock, that what may be easier for one person might be harder for another. For example, length, size of holds, type of rock, angle of incline. I tried bouldering last weekend and was so disapointed. I only completed one V0 and an easy one at that. Bouldering and Climbing are completely different.
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gettingold
Oct 6, 2002, 2:03 PM
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I agree - isn't it time we all used the same grades?
C= Cool
VC = Very Cool
ASC = Ah so Cool
Aghhhh = Aghhh I fell! (Too hard!)
Be safe
Oldie
[ This Message was edited by: gettingold on 2002-10-06 07:04 ]
[ This Message was edited by: gettingold on 2002-10-06 07:08 ]
[ This Message was edited by: gettingold on 2002-10-06 07:09 ]
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bighigaz
Oct 6, 2002, 2:54 PM
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Hey guys, the rating systems DO convert, but nobody is ever going to agree... I like to think of bouldering simply as "Crux" Climbing... you might be able to pull off a 5.12 crux move on a boulder, but 60 feet up on a rock face it suddenly takes on a whole new meaning! Here's the scale conversion I prefer:
V-System-------YDS-------Description
V-Easy(VE)-----5.Easy----Warm-up, Cake
V-Fun(VF)------5.Fun-----EgoBooster,classic
V-Hard(VH)-----5.Hard----Grunts and Groans.
V-Heinous(VH+)-5.Heinous-Frickin' Hard.
V-???(V?)------5.???-----Puzzled,Stupified.
V-Scary(VS)----5.Scary---Don't die on it.
V-#@!~*(V!)----5.#@!~*---Mission Impossible
Should check out the forum on V-scale conversion in the bouldering section...
Or just bag it and go climb something!
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coclimber26
Oct 12, 2002, 10:10 PM
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If you can boulder a V3 then I would try to lead a 5.9/5.10 to make sure you have the endurance. big difference between bouldering power and climbing endurance
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fckn_fred
Oct 14, 2002, 5:15 PM
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if you think v3 if 5.10... go to the tanks... you will soon find out that v0- is 5.10 there...
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