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watersprite
May 29, 2003, 10:53 PM
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what do you guys think of the Trango B-52 for rappelling? I was going to get a TRE but the B-52 is cheaper... I want something smooth for my first rappel - something not scary!
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superbum
May 29, 2003, 11:48 PM
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do a forum search...I posted a pros/cons discussion on the B-52 vs Petzl's reverso a while back. With my next paycheck I am buying the B-52.
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watersprite
May 30, 2003, 12:11 AM
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'nuff said...
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jimdavis
May 30, 2003, 5:49 AM
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With the cable backing on the b-52...how do you unlock it with to lower someone after it's locked? I know how to do it with a reverso, but i would think the cable loop as opposed to a solid loop would prohibit you from doing it the same way.
Do you run a sling around the cable loop then up through your master point then down to something like your harness to unlock it? That's how i do it on a Reverso.
How do you guys unlock your B-52's?
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rockermike
May 30, 2003, 3:49 PM
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the directions that come with it give details. Didn't you keep them? Neither did I. Anyway, if I remember correctly you run a runner from the carabineer that serves as a break bar up to your anchor and get the weight onto it. At that point the device is just working like an ATC and what used to be your main weight bearing support (the biner thru the frame of the b-52) can be removed.
the device seems to rappel real smoothly. I like it for that. Setting up the lock off system to belay is a little quirky for my taste. seems like it would be prone to error but I just got mine recently so maybe it becomes second nature after awhile. Another thing I've noticed is when belaying top rope at a gym with old thick ropes the device locks up too much as you try to pay out rope. I've gone back to my old ATC for the gym.
ML
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flyinghatchet
May 30, 2003, 8:56 PM
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I'm sorry, but what's a TRE?
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watersprite
May 30, 2003, 11:08 PM
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it's an auto-locking device - for belaying and rappelling... manufacturer is PMI - RopeSportTRE rope brake
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wangfactor
May 30, 2003, 11:16 PM
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The Tre Sirius is a semi-automatic belay device for double ropes. Probably no reason to use it unless you're using double ropes since it's heavier and costs more than a B-52. I think Tre is the company and Sirius is the product name - at least in Germany. I'm guessing PMI is the distributor in the States - kind of like Yates distributing the Troll Rocker?
http://www.tre-pfullingen.de/html/sirius_e.html
I have a B-52 and it's been my regular BRD for my last few trips. Haven't used it in autoblock yet though I might get the chance this weekend. While the B-52 fine for rappel, I'm not sure it's any better than my ATC. I think they're both decent and smooth. The B-52 also seems to twist ropes on rappel.
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mowz
May 31, 2003, 3:17 AM
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hey! I tired a b-52. It's not good!!!!! It kept catching and stuff on the rope. Please, don't get it.
-Mowz
P.S. If you don't believe me, call up north wall. they'll tell you. ask for zach.
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redpoint73
May 31, 2003, 5:43 AM
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Sirius is the brand name -- German. TRE is the name of the device. This months Rock and Ice has a review. It says there is an (unlikely) possibility of the rope UNCLIPPING from the device.
NO THANKS! I'll stick to my ATC. It Doesn't unclip itself!
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wangfactor
Jun 3, 2003, 11:33 PM
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In reply to: what do you guys think of the Trango B-52 for rappelling? I was going to get a TRE but the B-52 is cheaper... I want something smooth for my first rappel - something not scary!
In reply to: hey! I tired a b-52. It's not good!!!!! It kept catching and stuff on the rope. Please, don't get it.
In reply to: Sirius is the brand name -- German. TRE is the name of the device.
> Contact TRE
>
> TRE GmbH
> Hohe Str. 23 / 1
> D-72793 Pfullingen
> Germany
>
> Tel.: +49(0)7121 750815
> Fax: +49(0)7121 750835
>
> mail: service@tre-pfullingen.de
> web: www.tre-pfullingen.de
TRE seems suspiciously like the company/brand name to me. Also notice that "tre" is in the domain name of their site and sirius is used in the name of the HTML page (in previously provided URL). As I mentioned, it certainly may be that they use TRE as the company/brand name in Germany and TRE as the product name in the States when it's resold under PMI.
In reply to: This months Rock and Ice has a review. It says there is an (unlikely) possibility of the rope UNCLIPPING from the device. |
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drkodos
Jun 3, 2003, 11:36 PM
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KISS:
Gi-Gi
ATC
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joshklingbeil
Jun 4, 2003, 12:27 AM
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I got a B-52 as a gift. And I don't like it because it is thin. An ATC just seems safer to me. I only use it when I have to. And I don't like to let other people use it. It just looks to skimpy to me. The DMM Bug is thicker than an ATC and will last longer and provide a slower rappel. I would rather have a Reverso than a B-52.
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wangfactor
Jun 4, 2003, 12:52 AM
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In reply to: I got a B-52 as a gift. And I don't like it because it is thin. An ATC just seems safer to me. I only use it when I have to. And I don't like to let other people use it. It just looks to skimpy to me. The DMM Bug is thicker than an ATC and will last longer and provide a slower rappel. I would rather have a Reverso than a B-52. |
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neph
Jun 4, 2003, 2:12 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: I got a B-52 as a gift. And I don't like it because it is thin. An ATC just seems safer to me. I only use it when I have to. And I don't like to let other people use it. It just looks to skimpy to me. The DMM Bug is thicker than an ATC and will last longer and provide a slower rappel. I would rather have a Reverso than a B-52. Are there any cases where a B-52 has failed? If there are I'd be really interested in hearing about them because I'm putting my life and that of my partners on the line every time I use it. I've heard they use a different alloy(?) in the B-52 which is supposed to last longer but I haven't really looked into that. As for slower rappels, I personally like fast Army ranger-style rappels - as long as my hands don't burn up that is :wink:
Eh, wasnt there another thread on this?
I seem to remember Malcom posting something about the pull test results.
IIRC, the biners used in the pull test broke before the B52 did.
I like my B52, it feeds rope and rappels smoothly, unless you are useing something bigger than a new 10.5
If i get around to it, I'll post the link to the other discussion.
Edit: Yes, there are hundreds of threads about the B52, and heres the link to the one I was referring to. If you look at Malcom(maldaly) 's response on page 3, he says:
"We got our strength rating by placing a 12mm steel rod through one end and a locking carabiner through the other, and pulled it on our Enstron. The carabiner broke at 24kN. That's a test that really doesn't prove anything of a useful nature but since people ask, we do it. Turning the device around will give identical results...think about it."
and
"In conducting force multiplier tests we found that even when incorrectly rigged backwards, the B-52 applies as much braking force to the system as a correctly rigged figure 8. In other words, even if you do rig it wrong, you're not going to die."
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billcoe_
Jun 7, 2003, 6:13 AM
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joshklingbeil - this thing got beaten to death on this forum. I was ranting about the B-52 being weak if reversed. I tried contacting Trango but no word- so off I went ranting. Yes Malcom Daly- the owner/designer from Trango finally did come on RC.com and say that the B-52 was tested reversed, as if the thin side was taking all of the pressure and he stated that it exceeded any strength ever needed. Calmed me down quite a bit.
My experience, yes, the B-52 is very PISS poor for thick ropes. BUT at rope size 10.2 and smaller it MAY be the best little device out there. I climb with fat ropes sometimes and hate it for that reason.
Theres still something un-nerving to me about using the B-52 backwards, an ATC is grab and go, and like you I've used, and found a DMM Bug to be as good but probably better than anything out there - 2 exclusions to that statement.
1) I've used a hell of a lot of the belay/rappel devices in my 30+ years of climbing, BUT I've never tried an Omega SBG-some folks swear by them and I don't recall reading a bad word here on them.
2) The B-52 would be better than a reverso, EXCEPT, I have no experince with ther autoblock feature of either, never needed to use it. Reverso isn't a bad little device.
READ THIS PART: if you want to rappel slower, on almost any device you use, clip and extra carabiner through the rope. This will also really really help on belaying a big screamer with a heavy climber falling.
Bill
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wangfactor
Jun 7, 2003, 7:06 AM
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Thanks for the replies Bill & Nate. I'm currently using the B-52 as my default device and it seems to work well. The thickest rope I use is a 10.5 but more typically a 9 or a 10.2. I've used the double biner technique to slow rappels with thin ropes (7.6) and that works well too.
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c_kryll
Jun 7, 2003, 2:06 PM
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Ok, just a little side note to add to the already long B-52 discussion. I've used it both indoors and out, loved the feeding action and locking action with 10.5 and under. One "defect" or poor engineering that I discoverd is that the keeper cable is NOT swaged into the device, only glued in. I've already had to return one to TRANGO for replacement because the keeper cable fell out, and this device was not put under abusive use.
FYI
Chris
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memphis_rea
Jul 18, 2003, 10:23 PM
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Has anyone ever heard of the skinny part on the reverso ever bending?
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sspssp
Jul 18, 2003, 10:37 PM
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I've used both the Reverso and B-52. I like the B-52 better. However, I don't like the B-52 for toproping (and I don't use it for such).
If you climb with fat ropes, the Reverso might be better.
Unlocking the B-52: the previous poster was correct. You sling the "brake" biner and lift up on it.
I just got a TRE. I don't think the unclipping is a concern. It is CE certified and after selling thousands of devices there are no reports of it unclipping. It is a very safe device for rapping, but I am still undecided if I like it for rapping. It is similar to the Gri-Gri, in that you have to push down on the device (or lever arm for Gri-Gri) to lower or rap. Even when pusing down, I found it hard to get the rope to feed through smoothly. Without your hand on the lever, it locks up instantly (making it safe). However, unless I can get more proficient at it, raps would really be a pain. At my current efficiency, I wouldn't do a multi-rap with it (particularly if time/weather/darkness were issues).
I like the TRE for belaying. Once you understand how to hold it, it is very easy to feed rope smoothly (with hand on the brake rope at all times), it locks up nicely for the catch, and it stays locked--it doesn't take tension to hold a climber like an ATC does.
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ricardol
Jul 19, 2003, 12:18 AM
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.. for rappelling .. any of these devices will work (ATC, b-52, reverso, etc, etc) ..
my 2 cents, i've tried the following
ATC - smooth easy rappels
B-52 - mine did not feed smoothly
Reverso - Faster rappels than an ATC
----------------------------------------------------
what do i use? -- it depends on what i'm doing
at the gym - only carry ATC
multipitch trad - carry reverso + b52 as a backup on a spare biner on back of harness.
for rappelling - reverso --
if i'm rapelling a single line -- i'll use 2 carabiners for higher friction .. (a few days ago i rapped 160' on a single 8.6mm line -- that was a bit scary!.. very glad i had gloves on .. -- (clarification: this was a single line rappel .. )
- ricardo
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suzanica
Jul 19, 2003, 1:38 AM
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watersprite, just keep it simple and use an ATC. The B-52 I have works for rapelling too but sometimes cams. The Reverso is faster. Good luck on your first rapell. it's a lot of fun. I know you were worried, but Just wrap the rope around your leg, down climb, and go :D
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watersprite
Jul 19, 2003, 5:40 AM
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thanks, susanica...
I'm not too worried about the technique now. it sounds easy enough. I'm going to learn with an autoblock, so should be safe...
very good thread and thanks for bringing it back.
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psych
Jul 19, 2003, 7:42 AM
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I've said it before, I'll say it again: climbing and drinking don't mix. :P
I honestly tried to stop myself from posting this, I swear. I have absolutely no relevant information to contribute either, how bad is that? :D
Mike...
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bcd
Jul 24, 2003, 8:52 AM
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I LOVE the B52's! Those guys ROCK! Though I wouldn't recommend headphones while climbing, I can just picture myself rappelling off a summit with "Rock Lobster" jamming in my ears!
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