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hroldan
Dec 25, 2004, 10:27 PM
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Hi, hope this is the right area for the topic.
My climbing partner and i want to descend a wall of more than 290mts... in fact is a very wide deep whole with an atractive unestudied forest.
we have:
- 2 dynamic ropes (50mts long)
- 1 extra dynamic rope (100mts long)
- 1 static rope (60 mts long)
What is the safest way down?
1. I've heard that a knot tying two ropes reduces the load capacity by 50%... Getting one single rope that long is impossible here in Guatemala...
2. What are your ideas about tying ropes?. I don't think tying 3 ropes is a good idea.
3. The owner of the land want the walls to be kept intact, so no drilling allowed
4. I was thinking about placing gear (with backups) at the end of rope 1 to set the anchor for the second rope and so on for the third rope
Of course, then we have to come up again...
We just did our longest rappel two weeks ago tying one dynamic rope to a static rope (almost 100 mts rappel) and have rappeled lots of times but need ideas from experienced people.
here is a small pict...
http://www.xplorandoguatemala.com/hole.jpg
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climbinginchico
Dec 25, 2004, 10:31 PM
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I would think that anchoring the rope at the top and tying them together would get you down safely. Just make sure you are comfortable doing a single rope rappell. And, carry a second belay devide to pass the connecting knots. When rappelling, I wouldn't think that the knots joining the ropes would present much of a danger. However, you guys will have to go 1 at a time, and with all that rope weight it will be slooooow going.
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hroldan
Dec 25, 2004, 10:41 PM
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Thanks for the comment, BTW I am thinking on using fisherman knots...
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tetons
Dec 25, 2004, 11:50 PM
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With the ropes you describe, can you get to the bottom? What diameter are these ropes? If you have ascenders or can tie a prusik, passing the knots is simply a little tedious. You might consider overhands to tie the ropes together -- easier to untie. Protect the rope as it goes over the edge. It will get chewed up. Where is this cliff, exactly? Looks big, and wet. How will you get out? Ascenders, again? Back yourself up with a prusik or something unless you're way comfortable with somewhat technical descents (and ascents). What's down in that forest?!! Tetons We were in Guate last winter but only did volcanoes, nothing technical. We saw some potential here and there. Maybe next time.
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hroldan
Dec 26, 2004, 12:53 AM
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Thank you all.
Tetons:
I think we can get to the bottom, is very likely for us to get another rope. The rope diameter is 10 milimeters, all of them. Yes, we will use prusiks for security. Yes is big!
The place is located in a private land in Huehuetenango. The ascent will be tedious...
Nobody knows whats down there. From all the history researched, there are only rumors about two groups trying to get down there. One in a helicopter (they couldn't because of the people around, they are very protective on their lands, we have to go trough whole process to get permission) and the other group from a local university who got down... is only a rumour... there are no picts or studies about that thing.
Is round and deep. Is a whole ecosystem down there. surely has some kind or underground river or something...
The extra rope might me 9mm... how safe would it be with 4 knots, 4 ropes...?
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pk
Dec 26, 2004, 1:01 AM
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With something that long don't forget the anchor the rope at the bottem of the cliff. You wouldn't want a gust of wind / updraft to blow the rop up into a crack system or a flake rendering you helpless at the bottem.
P.K.
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kaczoron
Dec 26, 2004, 1:08 AM
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Hi,
Sounds like you are up for an adventure! have a look at this thread it may help you out. Spot on about anchoring at the bottom as well.
Nick
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johnson6102002
Dec 26, 2004, 1:11 AM
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wow that sounds awesome I would love to go down an dcheck that out sounds like a good time but man thats gonna be a pain to get back out wow have fun
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irockclimbtoo
Dec 26, 2004, 1:25 AM
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ab
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pk
Dec 26, 2004, 1:28 AM
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In reply to: fucck the owner and drill the wall at one spot for an anchor but use the colored bolts. just makesure you always rappel from the same spot where the bolts are.
Holy Shlt! I just found out why we have access issues all over the US.
P.K.
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kman
Dec 26, 2004, 1:33 AM
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In reply to: fucck the owner and drill the wall at one spot for an anchor but use the colored bolts. just makesure you always rappel from the same spot where the bolts are.
It's people like you that fVck up access. Stupid f'er.
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pk
Dec 26, 2004, 1:35 AM
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edited: no longer relivant since kman changed his post.
P.K.
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climb_nc
Dec 26, 2004, 1:48 AM
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To hroldan:
hey man, sounds like a great adventure! Don't drill if the owners prohibit it. have a bommer anchor, and a backup at the top of the cliff. use a double fisherman's knot, as this knot is bomber! 4 ropes, 4 knots is all ok. just besure you and your partner know how to pass knots on rappell. And don't forget your ascenders/prussics so you can get out! hit us with some pics when you get out of the depression. Is this a "Karst" formation?
To irockclimbtoo:
Bro, you need to check your head.
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irockclimbtoo
Dec 26, 2004, 1:59 AM
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ab
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pk
Dec 26, 2004, 2:02 AM
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In reply to: hey b!tch i dont cause access issues im a clean climber i never bolt anything and dont leave trash and i dont fucck around when someone tell me to get off their rock so you can shove it up ur a$$
I could be wrong buuuuuuuut, I think it was your first statement that has people a little pissy with you. Then again I could be wrong! :roll:
P.K.
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mdv638
Dec 26, 2004, 2:44 AM
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somthing to think about.
you said you were decending 290m. Your ropes only add up to 260m. even assuming 10% elongation for the dynamic ropes you are still 10m shy of the ground. If the plan is to do one continous rappel then you are going to need more rope.
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climbinginchico
Dec 26, 2004, 2:49 AM
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Yeah, climbtoo, your comments on this site offer nothing at all, and you make smartass comments when the OP was very clear in not wanting to lose access. Maybe that's why people jumped on you. You deserved it, "b!tch." :lol:
Grow up.
To the OP: I would recommend putting the static rope on top, that way the stretch of the dynamic rope won't be quite as severe from the weight of the ropes. I would put them in this order: 50m static, long dynamic, and then the shorter dynamics. This way you will have to pass a minimum number of knots with minimum tension from the rope weight as you're passing the knots, assuming you don't have to use quite all the ropes to reach the bottom.
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jt512
Dec 26, 2004, 2:52 AM
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In reply to: I would think that anchoring the rope at the top and tying them together would get you down safely.
Now I know why your physics sucks: you can't add!
-Jay
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jt512
Dec 26, 2004, 3:02 AM
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In reply to: To the OP: I would recommend putting the static rope on top, that way the stretch of the dynamic rope won't be quite as severe from the weight of the ropes. I would put them in this order: 50m static, long dynamic, and then the shorter dynamics. This way you will have to pass a minimum number of knots with minimum tension from the rope weight as you're passing the knots, assuming you don't have to use quite all the ropes to reach the bottom.
One of us can't add. I'm getting that he'll be 30 meters short with those ropes.
-Jay
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hroldan
Dec 26, 2004, 3:24 AM
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Thanks all for the help!!! Yea, it will be a great adventure. I will post the picts when i have it (1 week), i'm leaving tomorrow at noon. I will be reading this page tomorrow.
The thing about drilling is that... it will be dangerous... Huehuetenango was the last part of Guatemala to beat by the spanish guys in the past. Is a land of warriors. All their history is filled with facts where they stand with each other to protect themselves and the helicopter that wanted to go down... they were talking about it (outside the thing watching the hole) when the people who live around tied the helicopter and were ready to fight with them... this is not a joke... There has been serious problems over there with people visiting without permission. They will treat anybody like this as an invader.
Last year i was over there and to be honest, they are COOL people, but you must show respect for their land and what they say... trust me, if they say that drilling is forbidden... try it..., they will hear the sound... i wouldn't like to be there. I could tell you more but it will sound like angry people. They are really nice if you show respect.
Yes... the ascent will be painful. Im excited because is an unexplored area!!
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climbinginchico
Dec 26, 2004, 3:49 AM
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In reply to: I think we can get to the bottom, is very likely for us to get another rope. ---snip--- The extra rope might me 9mm... how safe would it be with 4 knots, 4 ropes...?
Jay... Who can't add? I count 3 50m ropes, 1 100m rope, and one 60m rope. Looks like with that extra rope it's 310 meters. Minus some for knots, and you're still over 300 meters, with a 290 meter rappell.
hroldan, don't forget to anchor at the bottom. I don't see a problem with the knots. I would use the narrower rope at the bottom though.
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kman
Dec 26, 2004, 4:32 AM
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In reply to: Last year i was over there and to be honest, they are COOL people, but you must show respect for their land and what they say... trust me, if they say that drilling is forbidden... try it..., they will hear the sound... i wouldn't like to be there.
That's cool. Need more people like that.
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slab-dyno
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Dec 26, 2004, 5:49 AM
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An alpine butterfly may be a good choice for passing a lot of knots on rappel. It has the advantage of providing a clip in point while passing the knot.
Jimmy
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salamanizer
Dec 26, 2004, 6:18 AM
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In reply to: An alpine butterfly may be a good choice for passing a lot of knots on rappel. It has the advantage of providing a clip in point while passing the knot. Jimmy
An alpine butterfly? Havent seen this one, can you direct me to a site or book that illistrates this knot. I would like to put it in my memory.
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