So your climbing partner has a lot to learn about trad leading, route finding, etc, etc. Addressing those issues would make him a better climber, no doubt.

If you think running, swimming, and losing weight is how you'll be able to progress on your project, then that's what you'll do.

I'm merely trying to be realistic: becoming better at climbing (or anything) may require doing things you don't like.

He's actually well versed as both a sport and trad climber, it's just that the pitch was initially X rated due to very technical, marginal pro. Now that I've led it five times with him following he's more than capable of leading it on his own and we now consider it R-rated due to our familiarity with it.

I'm not really one of those people into 'training' per se, I either get in shape doing what I love or I don't. And most especially with climbing I'm definitely not into 'training' - I mean, why waste the time when I could be climbing.


I've always been one of those unfortunates who suffers from 'sporadic hedonism' and finds pain, discomfort, and 'things I don't like' unrewarding. Terrible, I know; some years even I don't know how I muddle through it all, but using my free time to do things I don't like doing ain't one of them.

So, is it "R" or is it "x." Either it's dangerous to fall on, or it's not. How well you know the moves is irrelevant.

You all will have to forgive me for not reading the whole thread. The thread is entitled,"Trad climbing, what's in a name?"

Here is the full answer. It is what ever the person speaking intends the word "Trad" to mean.

No two people agree. I learned this on one of my first climbs with Willie Crowther, my teacher. One day he asked if I wanted to do Birdie Party. I just said "Yes!" though I had no guide book and did not know it was an aid climb.

Willie wore old Sears pants whose back pockets were out and would not hold his hammer. It would just fall through and hang at full length below him. There he was hanging from one hand at the ceiling using his teeth and the free hand to thread the hammer back up through the torn out pocket. It was a three pound sledge and he never needed more than two whoomps! to set a pin. Then he carefully put the hammer back in his pocket. It of course immediately again fell full length. The truth could not have been more self-evident.

This was Willie's form of climbing.

I have not the slightest doubt when he had a new set of pants with good pockets, he did not consider that he was doing the climbs properly.

Already in my first month of climbing, I learned the answer to all manner of questions over which people get twisted up in their shorts. And lead to threads lasting thousands of posts.

Besides having an absolutely superb instructor, I had one other really big advantage. I was already 26 years old and doing significant deeds was not why I had come to the Gunks. While snowshoeing around in the Adirondaks I had decided I needed to come to the Gunks and learn how to use a rope. That was the whole of it. Pure and simple.

Unfortunately the Gunks was a trap. After spending just a little time with these people, you can't bear to leave. Too funny. Too bright. Too interesting. Bottom line?

If you let any of the very strange arguments and attitudes, reduce your enjoyment of the people, you have entirely missed out on the real fun. Take my word for it. When you are old and crotchety, it's the people you will miss.

Above there are various statements about what Stannard did or did not do. Frankly they are all largely off the mark. But it makes no difference at all what Stannard did. As long as you do not damage the rock or the area, do not change the rock or the climbing available to others, and do not prevent others from enjoying themselves as they choose to enjoy themselves

you are free to climb as pleases you. Bear in mind though. If you choose to take great risks, your friends will miss you when you are gone.

Who the Hell are you to presume to know what Stannard did or did not do!?

(Sorry. I couldn't resist.)

It's climbing without weighting the rope.

It's a combination of the route and how you climb it.

It's no bolts

*

Well, I'd disagree. Once you know know the moves and feel reasonably confident you can navigate them, then I have a hard time calling the moves X rated. First couple of times up it, cleaning on lead and trying to sort out marginal and technical pro, definitely X-rated. As it is both the moves and the pro are highly technical for the first 60-70ft. of the pitch. I've taken one 40-50 footer on a reasonable piece after that stretch and definitely wouldn't want to fall on that lower bit.