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tisar
Feb 25, 2005, 11:29 AM
Post #26 of 30
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Registered: Jul 1, 2004
Posts: 2577
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In reply to: To further the hijack... Man I've caught many top-rope falls with an ATC directly off of the power point. Have any of those sayinf otherwise ever tried it? We're talking about TR not a lead fall. To the OP: If you want a more specialized belay device then that's cool, but it's not necessary. Note: I personally use a reverso.
As far as I can see it depends on your position to the power point:
If you place yourself directly under the PP (both ends of the rope parallel) the ATC wouldn't have any effect. The rope would run straight through the ATC as if it wasn't there - this would be more or less a redirection with no additional friction provided through the belay device.
In any other position the bigger the angle between the sharp line and the belay line is, the more friction is provided by the ATC - up to the maximum friction at 180°, the normal breaking position.
Theoretically, belaying from "behind" or above the PP (angle close to 180°) works perfect. But keep in mind that every change of your position has an immediate effect on the friction in the belay device. E.g. if you stumble and fall into the anchor while belaying, the angle will be 0° and it's very likely that you'll not be able to hold a fall of your partner any more.
Personally I'd go with the munter. The munter provides enough friction independant on the direction of the belay line, is easy to handle, lightweight, cheap and always available.
(Please note that I'm just a n00b with limited experience. Guaranty of correctness is not given in any point of this post.)
- Daniel
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aikibujin
Feb 25, 2005, 3:03 PM
Post #27 of 30
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Registered: Dec 28, 2003
Posts: 408
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In reply to: Belaying from above (rather directly from the anchor with an autoblock or "redirected") would involve a different hand position and motion than what I'm used to.
Belaying with an autoblock device, it is a different motion, as it is a different set up than belaying from your harness.
Belaying directly off your harness's belay loop, set up the belay device so that the brake strand of the rope comes out from the top, and the climber's side of the rope comes out from the bottom. Brake by either holding the brake strand to the side, or by holding the brake strand up (hold close to your chest). Holding the brake strand down may not generate enough friction.
In reply to: For an anchor on two bolts I would just use two slings attached to a locker on each hanger, with the rope running through either two non-locking (opposite, opposed, etc.) or one locking. So since my standing would lift the anchor up to my wasit, wouldn't a fall simply slam me back down towards the bolts until the slings caught the weight?
In reply to: The way I was conceiving it was sitting beside the anchor (two bolts on the ledge above the route) with my legs dangling over the edge. The ATC was clipped into the power point with a normal pear, hanging over the edge, but close enough I could still feed rope through and pull back on the brake end in the event of a fall. Then tie myself in to the anchor with a short sling or two short slings, If I were to slip. The reason I asked about tying in is because in what I just described it didn't seem like there were any forces to jerk me forward.
As for as for not anchoring in: in this setup, you would have to bend forward to tak in slack, if the climber falls suddenly while you're taking in slack, when your guide hand is gripping the rope tightly, that could jerk you forward over the edge, now you're a goner, and your climber is left to freesolo the route. Generally, if you have to be that close to the edge with your feet dangling, it's a good idea to be anchored.
In reply to: EDIT: Clarification question. When you mention what hand I belay with (and I assume I belay right-handed), you mean what hand is holding the brake end right? |
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jomal
Feb 25, 2005, 4:08 PM
Post #28 of 30
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Registered: Oct 10, 2004
Posts: 45
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Thanks man, that clears things up.
Although it just occured to me, if I were to get jerked off for whatever reason, if I was straddling the anchor I would most likely end up upside down...
For now I'll just stick with what I know. Might pick up a reverso for cheap while I still work at REI though!
PS- I'm not down with the lingo, what's a "slingshot" belay referring to?
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aikibujin
Feb 25, 2005, 5:02 PM
Post #29 of 30
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Registered: Dec 28, 2003
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In reply to: Although it just occured to me, if I were to get jerked off for whatever reason, if I was straddling the anchor I would most likely end up upside down...
If you clip yourself in to the powerpoint then yes, you would end up *high pitched voice* in a very uncomfortable fall. Clipping into an anchor point below you is a very bad idea in general, as you're taking a high fall factor fall on mostly static material.
In reply to: PS- I'm not down with the lingo, what's a "slingshot" belay referring to?
Ummmm... so that's what a slingshot toprope is, basically the most common toprope setup where the belayer is standing at the bottom of the route. Since belaying from the top (using whatever method) is also toproping, I used "slingshot toprope" to specify what I was referring to.
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jomal
Feb 25, 2005, 5:30 PM
Post #30 of 30
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Registered: Oct 10, 2004
Posts: 45
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Ummmm, thanks.....?
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