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thrmaln
Nov 14, 2005, 5:18 PM
Post #26 of 36
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Registered: Mar 4, 2005
Posts: 160
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Hey Rockkid55,
"These people who are saying they led 10c on the roof--or any 5.10--after a few weeks of climbing are either "
A) Lying
B) 12 year old kids who have no body fat
C) Talking about gym or easy sport climbs (this one's the most likely)
I totally agree with what you are saying. I was dumbfounded when I read of others climbing 5.11 onsight in a few weeks and leading hard 10's as their first lead. While every-ones natural ability is different, it just seems foolish and a bit dangerous to lead something that difficult when your technique and footwork is just net there yet. Also, any climbing partner who would allow a newbie to lead a 5.10. hard as their first lead is not a safe climber. Even if the guy had insane natural ability and was not just horsing his way up with brute strength, I don't think I would let anyone lead anything harder then a 5.7 as their first lead. Maybe if after a few 5.7's then they could try something harder. When you are just learning to lead, there is too much to worry about "am I back clipped, is my anchor good, damn this rope wont clip" that it is nice to not have to worry about the climb since it is well within your ability for your first lead. Climbing will most likely be a part of your life for ever, and why rush the route difficulties. I think that the times 5.10 and below are the best since I can see my self progressing. I will most definitely hit a plateau where my abilities will level off, so for now I am enjoying everything along the way.
Best regards,
Marc Webster
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pdx_climber
Nov 14, 2005, 5:40 PM
Post #27 of 36
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Registered: Sep 27, 2005
Posts: 110
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thrmaln-- I suppose you make some good points, but remember that everyone is different. Would you criticize someone for running a 3:15 marathon if it's their first one? Why hold someone back if they have natural talent?
Granted, my 11a onsight was a sport route (Toxic at Smith Rock, for the record) and of course grades are often totally meaningless. Back in Boulder I once got my ass kicked on a 5.10 slab in Eldorado (Superslab) and then promptly went bouldering and nailed a V7 (Turning Point) that same afternoon.
Saying that a relative beginner can't safely climb something of that difficulty is a little much though. I don't want to sound like a jerk or anything (tell me if I do), but 5.10 really isn't very hard for a lot of people and if somebody has shown that they know how to lead well in a gym I wouldn't have qualms about letting them go up a 5.10 sport route.
Nobody should guage their progression as a climber against other people, and it doesn't matter if it takes you 3 months or 10 years to reach a goal as long as you enjoy yourself while persuing it.
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thrmaln
Nov 14, 2005, 6:24 PM
Post #28 of 36
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Registered: Mar 4, 2005
Posts: 160
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Hey PDX,
Your post and argument are quite valid, so no offense taken. I do agree that everyone is an individual with different abilities. Was the 5.11a your first lead, of your first lead outside? Just curious? Also, if someone did a lot of leading in a gym or high level bouldering (I suck at bouldering by the way), but it was just there first time outside, I would also allow them to push the grade if they felt up to it. However, I would still probably ask them or encourage them to try the route out TR first and then they could decide along the way, "could I lead this".
My only issue (not with you but in general) was that with the difficulty of a 5.11 or any other crazy hard route being done as a first lead just seems like a lot to handle all at once. Taking the difficulty out of the climb and allowing the aspiring leader to focus on fumbling for the clips and chasing the biner as you try and clip just make it all that much easier. However, I am aware that a lead fall on most 5.11 routes would most likely be safer due to the high angle in regards to a lead fall at a 5.6 - 5.9 where you could pinball down to the next bolt. I have yet to take a lead fall, so I know my time is coming soon. I just hope it happens on a harder route rather then a low angle one for the reasons mentioned above.
Best regards,
Marc Webster
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mccabeman
Nov 14, 2005, 6:51 PM
Post #29 of 36
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Registered: Jul 22, 2005
Posts: 26
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I am absolutely amazed at people's obsession with numbers. I always figured that it took a lot to become a "real climber" and that it can't be microwaved. How many people do you know that can lead 5.10 sport, slab, hand crack, off width and overhang...safely a 1000 feet off the deck? What is a climber? Is it the ability to lead 5.10 or is it the knowledge, wisdom and experience to manage all areas of the craft?
I don't care if you can lead 5.14 after 1 year of climbing, I won't take you into the mountains or on a wall until your abilities are truly baked. And that takes time.
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freefall
Nov 17, 2005, 2:54 AM
Post #30 of 36
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Registered: Feb 26, 2003
Posts: 39
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Word up McCabman. Throw that sucker on broil and lets see what comes out....
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eyecannon
Nov 17, 2005, 4:37 AM
Post #31 of 36
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Registered: May 4, 2004
Posts: 517
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I TR'd 5.10a the first time I climbed. I haven't improved much since then though!
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cragmasterp
Nov 17, 2005, 4:41 AM
Post #32 of 36
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Registered: Feb 2, 2003
Posts: 278
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My mom was climbing 5.10 when she was 6 months pregnant with me.
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freefall
Nov 17, 2005, 12:41 PM
Post #33 of 36
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Registered: Feb 26, 2003
Posts: 39
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Was that the last time you were climbing 5.10? Hee Hee
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fishbelly
Nov 17, 2005, 2:21 PM
Post #34 of 36
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Registered: Oct 31, 2004
Posts: 273
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I started climbing way before Batt. powered drills. I could T.R. 5.10.
It took a year or 2 more to lead 5.10.
30 years later on a real good day I still scratch out a 5.10 lead.
When I started the popular image of a climber was a lay ed back pothead.
Who would rather compete with his inner self than try ( if he could ) to make the High School softball team.
With climbing gyms and entry level climbers with a higher athletic ability. 5.10 your first day be a realistic expectation.
Now that 5.9 is no longer really really hard and 5.13 is more than a rumor
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deltav
Nov 17, 2005, 2:28 PM
Post #35 of 36
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Registered: Sep 29, 2005
Posts: 597
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Is it just me, or do new climbers seem to be progressing faster these days? I started with TR and didnt do much lead of any sort until I could flash 11a (about 2 years) Then I went to sport and worked my way up to onsighting 10s
(about another year). Then I went to trad. So maybe Im slow, or maybe I just took the time to learn everything correctly and master it before I moved on. Dont see any need to rush. What are your thoguhts?
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azrockclimber
Nov 17, 2005, 3:49 PM
Post #36 of 36
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Registered: Jan 28, 2005
Posts: 666
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another thing beginners should keep in mind is that you strengths, if you have them, will be very specific and you will get whooped in other types of climbing.
If you onsighted .11a crimp sport after a month of climbing then you are probably tallish, very low body fat, and, lucky for you, have a ton of grip/ upperbody strength. However, take your noob ass to a runout .9 slab and you will NOT be able to do it. What about 3/4 in. steep crack...usually .10d-.11b...no way in hell are you going to be able to do it. You do not have the skills.
Your skills will be very specific and won't traslate to most types of climbing. I will, however, concede that there will always be people who were, literally, born to climb. We read about many of them everyday. T-caldwell @ 25 has done some of the most inspiring climbing to date.
Don't worry about you grade. Just take it to the rockl and have fun.
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