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bill413
Feb 2, 2006, 2:10 PM
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In reply to: At least with computers the damn things actually get quantifiably better/faster. |
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dingus
Feb 2, 2006, 2:58 PM
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In reply to: yeah, i'll definitly agree with you on the fit being really important. i've just heard that mad rocks fall apart quickly, seen them blown out real quick
That makes perfect sense if they truly stole the 5.10 design as 5.10's have always had their challenges with durability.\
DMT
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bustloose
Feb 2, 2006, 3:06 PM
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this thread is full of all kinds of sillyness, speculation and staight up BS... but hey, welcome to RC.com, everyone's an expert here!
i just can't beleive that someone else owned UFO's... i think i can count on one hand the number of pairs i've seen in my life... and 2 of them were mine!!
by the way, since when are advancements in technology a bad thing?? the only real annoyance in the shoe world is when they ditch a shoe you love and you've got to start the search all over again...
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areyoumydude
Feb 2, 2006, 5:42 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: I think you've got your facts mixed up. It was Five Ten that "stole" ideas from Young Chu the owner of Mad Rock. Some of Five Tens most popular shoes were designed by Young. btw my favorite shoe is Mad Rocks Flash. Their most basic shoe. Three resoles and still climbing. Say again, who did Young Chu design those shoes for??? So not only is he a thief, he is also a traitor. You get what you pay for. I will stick to Five Ten and sportiva when it comes to buying shoes. Fair Trade not Free Trade!!!
I guess that's why Five Ten lost a $500,000 law suit to Young Chu for not paying him for the shoes he produced for Five Ten.
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mattm
Feb 2, 2006, 6:15 PM
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[quote="areyoumydude"][quote="unrooted"]In reply to: Oh yea, and if you only knew who made La Spotivas.
Who?
AFAIK - Sportiva sources their shoes from two places. China and Italy. Their entry level stuff is chinese and that's fine with me - low cost shoes for beginners who will beat them up anyway. All high end shoes are made in Italy and are quality. I own close to 14 pairs of Sportivas now (1-because they fit my feet WELL 2 - Fit 3 - quality). Sportiva make quality products and I'm willing to pay more $$ for it but top reason is always fit. I don't wear 5.10 because of fit (although I do have a pair of mocs that are on their 4th resole! Love them - no durability issues there). In regards to R&D - UNLIKE drug companies that DO spend HUGe amounts of $$ research, no, I don't think shoe companies spend a lot. But they most certainly do R&D. New shapes and lasts and designs certainly do get tested. I've seen and even used prototypes and watched new designs evolve. Do they all get R&D? Probably not - but just like cars, almost everything will get you down the road some just better than others and people make they're own mind up whether they want to pay to ride in the civic or the 5-series.
I'm going to try the new Altias all things said though since no one else wants to make high tops anymore. (I had megas and they ALMOST worked - the slingshot heel was their downfall!) Altias look like the heel will be ok
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danieladaniela
Feb 2, 2006, 6:47 PM
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What I'd like is that old models are kept in production or at least sold to someone else to produce. Everybody has different feet. Everybody needs maybe two, or at most three, pairs with different characteristics, and that's all. If model xy153t6243243432 size 35.5 fits, after I've figured that out in three days at fifteen different shops and trying out various hundred pairs, I'd like that when it can't be resoled any longer, I can buy another one. And not have to go through the process, and perhaps at the end still be left longing for the older model.
By the way, if any of you (likely from UK or continental europe) has an unwanted mantra la sportiva (not the mantra S that replaced it) size 35 or 34.5, send me a private message :)
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styndall
Feb 2, 2006, 6:59 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Don't hate on madrocks, I wouldn't buy a different shoe. They are durable. you're the first person i've ever, ever heard say that.
My Phoenix' went a year and a half before they needed a new sole. I sent them off to Yosemite Bum, and they came back good as new. Knock mad rocks for a lot of reasons, but durability should not be one of them.
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mbg
Feb 2, 2006, 7:00 PM
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In reply to: Oh yea, and if you only knew who made La Spotivas.
I'd also like to know where you're coming from on that one.
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dingus
Feb 2, 2006, 9:22 PM
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Vanity Faire.
DMT
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couloir
Feb 3, 2006, 4:43 PM
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"I own close to 14 pairs of Sportivas now"In reply to: ...can you say shoe whore? |
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mattm
Feb 3, 2006, 5:08 PM
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In reply to: Vanity Faire. DMT
No - ALthough you are right that they once were involved with TNF this was before the TNF goes mainstream period. Sportiva could see the writing on the wall and pulled out of the joint venture project.
"13th January 2000
Today the documents regarding the repurchase of "La Sportiva" shares sold in 1998 to "The North Face" have been signed.
This way the Delladio family takes back the control of 100% of "La Sportiva ".
The distribution of the products "La Sportiva" in the North American market remains in the ownership of "The North Face".
Dr. Karl Heinz Salzburger has resigned his place in the board of directors of the Shoe Manufacturing Company and after the departure of "The North Face" the updated situation is described below:
La Sportiva S.p.A.
Ownership: 100% family Delladio
President: Francesco Delladio
General Manager and Vice-president: Lorenzo Delladio
Production director: Marco Delladio "
Even more interesting - Sportiva NA (North America) and La Sportiva S.p.A. (Global) are now one unit. "BOULDER, CO, January 17, 2006 – La Sportiva, a leader in outdoor footwear, announced that its North American distribution operations have become part of La Sportiva’s unified global distribution consortium. As of January 1, 2006, La Sportiva S.p.A., the Italian parent company and manufacturer, and La Sportiva N.A., Incorporated merged..."
This is cool IMO because some of the euro shoes that never made it over here (trail running and approach for example) could make inroads now.
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mattm
Feb 3, 2006, 5:24 PM
Post #37 of 51
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In reply to: "I own close to 14 pairs of Sportivas now" In reply to: ...can you say shoe whore?
Absolutely - Friends call me Imelda....
I'm a gear whore at heart (with pro form capabilities) so over the course of many years, I've collected lots and lots of shoes. Some are different sizes of the same model, others are "Abuse" shoes etc etc. Reason for all this was a piece of advice a climbing mentor gave me once. I'd asked him about his ascent of Hall of Mirrors (He's a SICK slab guy). He said you need to become a "Connoisseur of Shoes" for slabs - sometimes a stiff edging shoe works and sometimes a smearing slipper. He would wear different shoes on his feet for some climbs. All of that boils down to me having a bunch of shoes, kinda like a decathlete has different shoes for different events.
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naitch
Feb 3, 2006, 5:37 PM
Post #38 of 51
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I have a pair of MadRocks. 5.10s, Evolvs, and Sportivas. The MadRocks have stood up as well as the others and is the pair I use the most. They're Flashes and I've had them for 3 years (climbing 1-3 times a week year round) still on the first sole - rand just now went through from down climbing practice. I've heard their rubber trashed because of being soft and sticky but wearing out too fast. I'm convinced it's a combination of two factors. The first being the quality of the footwork. The second being the weight of the climber. I'm a fairly light climber (135). I think with heavier climbers and those with more aggressive footwork (can you say paddling the wall), it probably doesn't last as long as Sportivas or Boreals. I'm also convinced that the softness of the rubber probably should vary with the weight of the climber (the lighter - the softer, the heavier - the harder) - just my 2 cents...
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floridaputz
Feb 3, 2006, 5:48 PM
Post #39 of 51
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In reply to: Within the matter of one week it seemed like everyone had sold their souls to the devil to aquire a pair, (Fire's)and I truely believe that many people, myself included, could climb a full number grade harder overnight with them.
I was in Josh right after they came out. I owned a pair of "Royal Robbins Fricton boots" Sorry Royal, the worst shoes ever, I was leading stick to what (5.9) on echo rock and kept sliding off the crux. After I gave up, one climber after the next wearing Fire's flashed the route. I was thinking wow could shoes make that much difference ? Anyway I ran out and got a pair and was leading 5.10 just like that !
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sidepull
Feb 3, 2006, 6:00 PM
Post #40 of 51
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In reply to: Innovation, progression, refinement...I don't need any of that! Excuse me while I go back to my cave, I have a long day of hunting and gathering planned for tomorrow.
Remember your Plato, the new shoes aren't real, they are just reflections of light that you adopt as reality, they're actually hobnail boots.
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superbum
Feb 3, 2006, 6:11 PM
Post #41 of 51
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Does anyone know how to find a picture of the Boreal Fires?? I've heard so much about them (not just on RC.com...) and would love to see them...any help?
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kubi
Feb 3, 2006, 6:19 PM
Post #42 of 51
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In reply to: This is the same lame ass party line that drug companies spew in defense of not making their products affordable.
you obviously know nothing about the incredable costs involved with bringing a drug to market.
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superbum
Feb 3, 2006, 6:28 PM
Post #43 of 51
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In reply to: In reply to: Within the matter of one week it seemed like everyone had sold their souls to the devil to aquire a pair, (Fire's)and I truely believe that many people, myself included, could climb a full number grade harder overnight with them. I was in Josh right after they came out. I owned a pair of "Royal Robbins Fricton boots" Sorry Royal, the worst shoes ever, I was leading stick to what (5.9) on echo rock and kept sliding off the crux. After I gave up, one climber after the next wearing Fire's flashed the route. I was thinking wow could shoes make that much difference ? Anyway I ran out and got a pair and was leading 5.10 just like that !
Kinda similar is this short story/rant about EBs and Fires. It's a bit all over the place, but i thought it makes a nice addition to the thread:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...les/index.php?id=122
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summer_teeth
Feb 3, 2006, 7:47 PM
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As to the original question in the thread, I don't think it is a good thing or a bad thing. I think it is rather just an indication that climbing is becoming more and more popular in the US. Whether that is a good thing or a bad thing depends on each person's individual perspective.
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musicman
Feb 4, 2006, 12:17 AM
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okay okay, apparently mad rocks are quite durable...Maybe it was just the first few s...but it just seemed like lots of people were complaining about de-lamination and other durability issues. they've obviously gotten past it.
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happybob
Feb 4, 2006, 2:06 AM
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A friend of mine just got some Anasazi's, and he hates them. But he hasnt had a chance to try them outside the gym, so we will see what he thinks once spring gets here. I love my Flashes though. Couldnt have asked for more for $60. Just my two cents.
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tobym
Feb 4, 2006, 9:02 AM
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In reply to: A friend of mine just got some Anasazi's, and he hates them. |
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idancewithclams
Feb 8, 2006, 2:57 PM
Post #48 of 51
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i don't think anybody's mentioned climbingshoes.com yet, so here's my story:
my dalmatian Spot shredded one of my Mad Rock Flash shoes after I'd only had them for about a month (the survivor is hung on my wall). They were comfortable and super-sticky but I hear they don't last long - I didn't have 'em long enough to judge that for myself.
Lack of money and inability to wait on new shoes determined that I get a $35 pair of climbingshoes.com Kermits. 2 years and 2 half-resoles later, they are my favorite shoes of all time. The fit is amazing. One lace broke but i just tied it back together, and one tongue seems to have come apart a little at its base, but neither of those problems affected the use/climbing quality of the shoes. One of my better expenditures in this lifetime, i think, and worth checking out for the frugal climber!
also, a friend i've met since then, from North Conway, NH knows one of the owners, and it's a small-scale operation. i'm always up for supporting the little guy.
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bdplayer
Feb 8, 2006, 3:54 PM
Post #49 of 51
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I've got an old pair of 5.10s that I was given about 4 years ago. I don't even know model they are, but I haven't been able to find a pair quite as good no matter how high-tech shoes have become. Now, I'm a high tech guy. I've got the Bluetooth and the micro mp3 player. But nothing works as well as the old school for me. Of course, it may be that my tiny feet (7.5 street shoe) just don't work with anything else, but who knows.
I have high hopes for the new 5.10 high shoe though!
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cracklover
Feb 8, 2006, 5:16 PM
Post #50 of 51
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Don't hate on madrocks, I wouldn't buy a different shoe. They are durable. you're the first person i've ever, ever heard say that. My Phoenix' went a year and a half before they needed a new sole. I sent them off to Yosemite Bum, and they came back good as new. Knock mad rocks for a lot of reasons, but durability should not be one of them.
My Phoenixes went two climbs in IC before the low density artificial leather of the uppers disintegrated. And I'm no beginner. The rubber was fine, though.
Would love to go with Sportivas, but they just don't fit my foot.
I've had quality issues with 5.10, too, but I get great performance out of them, and with a pro deal they're affordable. Also, they seem to have fixed the ridiculous problem with their heel cup. I'm psyched to try the new generation without that problem.
As for all these new generation gimmicks, I'm highly dubious about how much impact they'll really have on performance. Though I could be convinced. I remember when I went from a pair of not very tight Boreal Diablos to significantly tighter lace-up Anasazis, I couldn't believe what a difference they made. Still, I'm holding out for the Gecko Shoe (TM).
So has anyone tried the new high-tops? I'd think they might be super for offwidth.
GO
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