|
|
|
|
j_ung
Nov 15, 2006, 11:15 PM
Post #26 of 357
(3307 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 21, 2003
Posts: 18690
|
I can't speak about what I'm not privvy to. I can only say that Willem (sangiro) and Daniel (ddt) have always dealt with me fairly and I certainly did have a say in the site's direction when I was working here. In fact, I would go so far as to say that I never once asked permission for any of the Front Page tweaks and editorial content decisions I made. I had their trust and ran with it. Through it all, I never felt as though they were looking over my shoulder or steering me in any direction other than that which I also felt was best for myself and the site's users.
If I didn't feel strongly about the strength of their character and their integrity, believe me, I would not defend them. Hell, right here in this very thread, several mods have publicly disagreed with ddt. But they have done so in a mature fashion and their usernames are still green. This is characteristic of my experience with the two owners.
And, as I no longer work for the site, you can be assured I have not been threatened with losing my position.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
wjca
Nov 15, 2006, 11:56 PM
Post #29 of 357
(3276 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 27, 2005
Posts: 7545
|
In reply to: In reply to: How many stood up and said, "You fired Hillary for what she said without warning or conversation to find an alternate solution? Well, then I no longer wish to work here either and I quit"? Chalk one up.
Your name is still in green, so to whom would you be referring?
|
|
|
|
|
curt
Nov 16, 2006, 2:25 AM
Post #31 of 357
(3228 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 27, 2002
Posts: 18275
|
Someone (not the subject of the post below) told me that I ought to cross-post these comments in this thread:
...It seems to me that you are saying there was no modding rude language or personal attacks in the old RC. That is not the case, I haven't been modding any "harsher" than I did in the old RC, killfiles and all; as far as I know neither have any of the other mods.
-F
Well, perhaps you haven't been modding any differently, but I am personally aware of a long-time RC.com mod and contributor being fired simply for telling one of the new "managers" that he was way out of line.
She was also threatened with being banned from the site--if she took her issue public. I personally have also had one post deleted--perhaps rightly so, but that's not the point I was trying to make. That point being: that these things would certainly not have happened, absent the change in management--and their newfound zeal for over-moderation.
Curt
|
|
|
|
|
taino
Nov 16, 2006, 2:36 AM
Post #32 of 357
(3212 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 2, 2003
Posts: 5371
|
In reply to: I personally have also had one post deleted--perhaps rightly so, but that's not the point I was trying to make. That point being: that these things would certainly not have happened, absent the change in management--and their newfound zeal for over-moderation. Curt
I just wanted to see that again. Emphasis mine.
T
|
|
|
|
|
wideguy
Nov 16, 2006, 2:41 AM
Post #33 of 357
(3209 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 9, 2003
Posts: 15046
|
In reply to: Someone (not the subject of the post below) told me that I ought to cross-post these comments in this thread: ...It seems to me that you are saying there was no modding rude language or personal attacks in the old RC. That is not the case, I haven't been modding any "harsher" than I did in the old RC, killfiles and all; as far as I know neither have any of the other mods.
-F Well, perhaps you haven't been modding any differently, but I am personally aware of a long-time RC.com mod and contributor being fired simply for telling one of the new "managers" that he was way out of line. She was also threatened with being banned from the site--if she took her issue public. I personally have also had one post deleted--perhaps rightly so, but that's not the point I was trying to make. That point being: that these things would certainly not have happened, absent the change in management--and their newfound zeal for over-moderation. Curt
And I know of another person who was told to edit his post or face "consequences" even though his post contained no profanity or any reason that would have resulted in modding in the past. He expressd an opinion, albeit an unflattering one, about another user.
Maybe it's early transition jitters but it sure seems the new "Philosophy" is trending towards conformity. Don't you dare say anything controversial or , god forbid, hurt anyone's feelings.
Not encouraging.
|
|
|
|
|
coldclimb
Nov 16, 2006, 7:54 AM
Post #34 of 357
(3172 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 14, 2002
Posts: 6909
|
Hmm, I don't think we can cry overmoderation guys, as a moderator going through these changes, I'm actually pretty certain we're to do LESS moderation. The site will be less kid-friendly now than it ever was, for better or for worse. So other issues aside, I can't say you're right about there being over-moderation. 
|
|
|
|
|
hangerlessbolt
Nov 16, 2006, 8:27 AM
Post #35 of 357
(3165 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 2, 2001
Posts: 7255
|
Perhaps I misread the examples in the previous posts, but it looks like it already has. Chalk it up to settling in.
This is all a journey...remember that...we'll work it out together. We always have.
Cheers
-RB
|
|
|
|
|
thomasribiere
Nov 16, 2006, 12:12 PM
Post #36 of 357
(3148 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 24, 2002
Posts: 9306
|
About posts deletion or editing :
It's allowed for Mods following the New Rules. So I, at least, could use it. WHy? Because I'm used to a French Climbing Forum where insulting posts can be deleted or insulting words deleted. And everybody understands it, and finally agrees with it.
So, coming FROM ME, you might see some words or posts deleted. It's not being a forum nazi, it's being here to make things stay civil.
And I only speak for myself here. SO you will all know.
Now I go back to my pasta.
|
|
|
|
|
jakedatc
Nov 16, 2006, 12:46 PM
Post #37 of 357
(3141 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 12, 2003
Posts: 11054
|
In reply to: About posts deletion or editing : It's allowed for Mods following the New Rules. So I, at least, could use it. WHy? Because I'm used to a French Climbing Forum where insulting posts can be deleted or insulting words deleted. And everybody understands it, and finally agrees with it. So, coming FROM ME, you might see some words or posts deleted. It's not being a forum nazi, it's being here to make things stay civil. And I only speak for myself here. SO you will all know.
hmmmm
In reply to: Philbox: The mods know that the function is not to be used. I have used the function within the last hour to change a title of a thread so that users understand the intent of the thread more clearly. Titles have always been able to be changed by mods.
In reply to: So in short, yes the mods need the edit function in very limited ways and on very limited occasions.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1480556#1480556
|
|
|
|
|
wjca
Nov 16, 2006, 2:54 PM
Post #38 of 357
(3123 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 27, 2005
Posts: 7545
|
DDT and Sangiro are geniuses. Or at least very savvy businessmen. Here's the way I see it. I got the impression that the old rc.com was more or less a group of rock climbers who got together to create a rock-climbing site to hang out on with friends (old and new alike). The moderators and administration worked for free because they enjoyed what they did and who they worked with. Money wasn't really an issue (at least making as much of it as possible). Thus the mods were fine working for free if it was for the better good of the site.
Jump ahead to these two dudes, non-rock climbers, with an idea to make a few bucks saw an opportunity. They invested $_____ in an effort to purchase the user base of rc.com = more ad revenue. Probably a good idea. They put in a lot of money and work in an effort to increase the return on their investment. They're running a business. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
The thing is, they got more than just a large user base. They (the non-rock climbers purchasing a rock climbing site) got experienced, knowledgeable, well-respected rock-climber moderators to help keep the site on its feet. But this new arrangement is different than the old arrangement. Before everyone was having a good time enjoying the camaraderie, not all that concerned for the bottom line. A group effort.
But now, now rc.com is a business. All of you moderators are now employees. Employees don't speak out publicly against their employer without repercussion. Still, perfectly fine. There is nothing wrong with it. The thing is, employees get paid.
DDT and Sangiro got a sweet deal. They got a group of people to help run their site who have rock climbing experience, knowledge and connections to all the users. FOR FREE!!!
Mods, you guys are holding a stronger hand. You have a full house and are getting bluffed by a pair of fours with a jack high kicker. YOU ARE BEING TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF BY TWO GUYS WHO ARE IN IT TO MAKE MONEY!!! Again, there is nothing wrong with them having a profit motive, but it is wrong to expect you to serve their bottom line without compensation.
(This post was edited by wjca on Nov 16, 2006, 2:56 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
fracture
Nov 16, 2006, 3:12 PM
Post #39 of 357
(3106 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 13, 2003
Posts: 1814
|
In reply to: So, coming FROM ME, you might see some words or posts deleted. It's not being a forum nazi, it's being here to make things stay civil.
No, it is being a forum nazi. Editing people's posts is unacceptable.
|
|
|
|
|
dingus
Nov 16, 2006, 3:27 PM
Post #40 of 357
(3094 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 17398
|
" About posts deletion or editing :
It's allowed for Mods following the New Rules. So I, at least, could use it. WHy? Because I'm used to a French Climbing Forum where insulting posts can be deleted or insulting words deleted. And everybody understands it, and finally agrees with it.
So, coming FROM ME, you might see some words or posts deleted. It's not being a forum nazi, it's being here to make things stay civil. "
Editing other peoples' posts is an extreme form of disrespect. You should be ashamed of yourself and I truly mean that. You ARE a forum Nazi if you edit other peoples' posts without their express permission.
DMT
|
|
|
|
|
fmd
Nov 16, 2006, 5:30 PM
Post #41 of 357
(3052 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 15, 2006
Posts: 656
|
|
|
|
|
|
caughtinside
Nov 16, 2006, 5:37 PM
Post #42 of 357
(3046 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 8, 2003
Posts: 30603
|
In reply to: In reply to: DDT and Sangiro are geniuses. Or at least very savvy businessmen. Here's the way I see it. I got the impression that the old rc.com was more or less a group of rock climbers who got together to create a rock-climbing site to hang out on with friends (old and new alike). The moderators and administration worked for free because they enjoyed what they did and who they worked with. Money wasn't really an issue (at least making as much of it as possible). Thus the mods were fine working for free if it was for the better good of the site. Jump ahead to these two dudes, non-rock climbers, with an idea to make a few bucks saw an opportunity. They invested $_____ in an effort to purchase the user base of rc.com = more ad revenue. Probably a good idea. They put in a lot of money and work in an effort to increase the return on their investment. They're running a business. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. The thing is, they got more than just a large user base. They (the non-rock climbers purchasing a rock climbing site) got experienced, knowledgeable, well-respected rock-climber moderators to help keep the site on its feet. But this new arrangement is different than the old arrangement. Before everyone was having a good time enjoying the camaraderie, not all that concerned for the bottom line. A group effort. But now, now rc.com is a business. All of you moderators are now employees. Employees don't speak out publicly against their employer without repercussion. Still, perfectly fine. There is nothing wrong with it. The thing is, employees get paid. DDT and Sangiro got a sweet deal. They got a group of people to help run their site who have rock climbing experience, knowledge and connections to all the users. FOR FREE!!! Mods, you guys are holding a stronger hand. You have a full house and are getting bluffed by a pair of fours with a jack high kicker. YOU ARE BEING TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF BY TWO GUYS WHO ARE IN IT TO MAKE MONEY!!! Again, there is nothing wrong with them having a profit motive, but it is wrong to expect you to serve their bottom line without compensation. Dont you think that there are many non-profits doing the samething. My wife works for the American Red Cross (paid for) and she has many voulunteers "working" for her. And believe me, the ARC is making money. So is the boy scouts, girl scouts and the YMCA's. They ALL have paid for staff and CEO's making quite a bit of money and yet that have volunteers. And you know what, without those volunteers, everyone of those organizations would go out of business. Thats life. Move on.
Did you really just compare RC.com to a public benefit 501c3 corporation? Are you retarded?
Think of it more as a bar. A bar where the bartenders are all volunteers, and don't get tipped. We all hang out and have fun, but where the owners (who probably don't drink) get paid, and fire bartenders who talk a little smack, even though they are popular with customers and mix a mean cocktail.
RC.com and the american red cross... that's rich!
|
|
|
|
|
hangerlessbolt
Nov 16, 2006, 5:54 PM
Post #43 of 357
(3036 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 2, 2001
Posts: 7255
|
I saw it coming the day the For Sale sign went up
I thought "For Sale"?...what's for sale?
Oh...US...we're for sale!
Grab your packs, kids...Mr. Johnson done sold us up the rivah.
Sweet! and my ex-wife said I wasn't worth anything...
(This post was edited by hangerlessbolt on Nov 16, 2006, 5:56 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
thomasribiere
Nov 16, 2006, 6:21 PM
Post #44 of 357
(3023 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 24, 2002
Posts: 9306
|
to reply to fracture and dingus :
If you say in a post : "fuck you trisomic nigger mama", in order to insult someone (not to have fun even if it's not funny) yes I will delete this whole sentence. Sorry, but the TOS (and may I add the general agreement) don't allow that because it's gross and disrespectful. And I think that people will accept that. Any opinion can be strong but should remain courteous, shouldn't it? Call me a forum nazi or even a forum collaborator as suggested by shaky in the community, I will stick with this belief.
Reread my post, the two keywords are "insults" and "delete". Nothing more, nothing less, nothing else.
(This post was edited by thomasribiere on Nov 16, 2006, 6:23 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Nov 16, 2006, 6:50 PM
Post #45 of 357
(3008 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
In reply to: ...there are many non-profits doing the samething. ...the ARC [American Red Cross] is making money.
How long did you spend thinking before you made that post?
Jay
|
|
|
|
|
hangerlessbolt
Nov 16, 2006, 7:12 PM
Post #46 of 357
(2992 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 2, 2001
Posts: 7255
|
Another incident of practicing the freedom of speech without, first, considering the freedom of thought
|
|
|
|
|
dingus
Nov 16, 2006, 8:47 PM
Post #47 of 357
(2954 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 17398
|
"If you say in a post : "fuck you trisomic nigger mama", in order to insult someone (not to have fun even if it's not funny) yes I will delete this whole sentence. Sorry, but the TOS (and may I add the general agreement) don't allow that because it's gross and disrespectful."
This attitude is precisely why I won't contribute any more content to this site. TRs disappear, html that people spent boatloads of time on dumped in the trash, photo spreads gone.
And the response?
"We hear you."
Like hell.
DMT
|
|
|
|
|
thomasribiere
Nov 16, 2006, 9:14 PM
Post #48 of 357
(2939 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 24, 2002
Posts: 9306
|
I don't see the link between my personal thoughts about insulting contents and the html (on which I personaly spent cargoloads of time, as you can see in my work on Fontainebleau by example or elsewhere)...
We do hear you, at least I here you, but I have opinions too. Which differ from yours.
|
|
|
|
|
wjca
Nov 16, 2006, 9:33 PM
Post #50 of 357
(2924 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 27, 2005
Posts: 7545
|
In reply to: In reply to: Jump ahead to these two dudes, non-rock climbers... Hmmm... I'm not rock climber? I may not spray like some "real rock climbers" on this site, but I climb. Check your facts
Facts? Now don't get carried away. Let's not let something like "the facts" get in the way of a good discussion.
|
|
|
|
|
|
