So I should train myself to fall off whenever something is hard to hold? More brilliant advice.

Very interesting. I'd really like to read about it. Could you share some, please?

Performance level is inconsequential. Your suggestion is to make things harder, then fall off when they feel hard. To paraphrase, I should make a 5.8 feel like 5.12, then let go when it does. How does this teach you to improve?

I had a two finger pocket with my other hand. I didn't make a choice to hold on or not, excepting the fact that I put my fingers in these pockets. They were both sharp on the outside, not holds you just fall out of.

So here's an opportunity for you. Spray me down with the improvements you've seen from your training regimen. Are you a super strong leader? Bouldering drastically better than before? Either put up, or shut up. For anyone looking to make measurable improvement through a proven system, check out The Self Coached Climber. Don't fall for this insanity.

My improvements? not owed to just this.. but it had a large effect. I was like you, never really done campusing, i was quite scared of the injury risk tbh. But, after flesh inspired me to take the risk and go for it.. i started my first real session a few weeks back. I thought i would suck at it, but i was on 3/4 inch rails doing doubles with 3 finger open hand single pads on first session. Not impressive in the grand scale of things, but for me.. it was a shock. Considering i spent 90% of my climbing time in sport/endurance, i did not expect to have that level of strength.

In climbing terms (since i assume you will mock the campus comparison), i am on the verge of sending my first v9. It is indoor though, so i guess that does not count as progression.

Also, campusing is starting to show gains now as well, especially in my larger upper body muscles, they are definitely a weakness for me.

That settles it. Flesh and Ceebo are either the same troll or in cahoots.

haha, how are my posts troll like exactly? maybe you missed the part where i opposed training monos in any way?
The training I've posted is based on years of training trial and error and is very safe with even with a moderate level of understanding and gets results, anyone who tries will agree.

Ceebo, read again. I want you to talk about how well you were climbing before doing this and how this directly caused your increased ability. Sorry, but I won't count anything in the gym. As an ex-gym staffer, I know what good the ratings typically are. Almost sending is worth nothing to me as well. Perhaps you can pull everything but the V9 moves? I don't know.

Look, isolating fingers is a proven recipe for disaster. I also don't like the idea of training with weight for anything but HIT training or campus boarding.

Regardless, I'm not going to argue everything you didn't say. Answer the original question, or stop the nonsense. You'll need to figure out how to move with the flow of a conversation if you want anyone to care what you say.

Hardest i climbed outdoor was always the same as what i was climbing indoor at that point in time. This summer i will be out sending 5.12's, and next 5.13.

And i will not say this method is responsible for X jump in performance. It is a combination of everything i have been building on to date. Or in short, keeping an open mind.

haha, how are my posts troll like exactly? maybe you missed the part where i opposed training monos in any way?
The training I've posted is based on years of training trial and error and is very safe with even with a moderate level of understanding and gets results, anyone who tries will agree.

what ceebo is doing makes sense in his mind.... if he's super careful he probably won't get hurt...

ceebo, there's an old PRO TIPS with Jared Roth.. you can search it on youtube... he recommends people train mostly on crimps by doing extremely difficult one arm closed crimp dead hands off campus rungs and such. He got extremely flamed for this. Jared, has bionic fingers, he doesn't get injured. He's an anomaly. That being said, i've spoken with or read about many top boulderers who almost all say when training and what they focus on is open handed strength, you will automatically be able to crimp harder by getting stronger open even though there a lil bit different muscles. Obviously, jared doensn't care. BTW, I took his advice 8 yrs ago shortly after it was filmed... it earned me a very quick strength increase when crimping almost immediately... 3 months into doing it every now and again, it earned me an injury that to this day 8 years later... is only 90% and it took me out of the game for 2-3 years entirely...

Don't do it bro! Mistakes happen and when you play with fire you get _______!

I've seen studies of this effect for swimming and sprinting but, after two hours of searching, I can't find them again. However, I found several sources for batting in baseball. Here are two:

Warm-up with weighted bat alters subsequent swing pattern and reduces swing speed.[1]

Warm-up swings with weighted bat decrease subsequent swing velocity, even though batters reported that the subsequent swings were faster.[2]

Jay


1. Southard D, et al. Warm-up with baseball bats of varying moments of inertia: effect on bat velocity and swing pattern. Res Q Exerc Sport. 2003 Sep;74(3):270-6.

2. Otsuji T, et al. After-effects of using a weighted bat and subsequent swing velocitty and batters' perceptions of swing velocity and heaviness. Percept Mot Skills. 2002 Feb;94(1):119-26.

Eh, what?.. even i (being stupid as they say) would not train 1 arm dead hang crimps.. my body says no.. i listen to it. I do what i know i can do.

Speaking of this. You in your own words say that campusing open handed doubles is safe yes?. Brake down my method.. open hand single finger climbing (weight over feet) is this nothing more than a platform to build open handed finger strength to go on and reap the rewards you swear are gained from open handed campusing?.

Do you not think it had some effect on my ability to (so far) 3 finger open hand campus safely?.



And Jbro, if you going to be a nob head.. at least do it with a little more style like Jay.

I'm sure it could make you stronger. The difference is that I have the weight being disbursed between 8 fingers, not focused on one.

Maybe you would say that its your one finger or two fingers and 10 toes which is more than 8 fingers... IMO it doesn't quite work that way. If it was true that this was better than existing power training, i would be very hard to measure progress to know that it's working.

If it works for you, just be careful sall I'm sayin.

Probably something you shouldn't discuss when around beginners and intermediate's on this forum, unless prefaced with a strong disclaimer.

It's cool bro, really, no biggie. Don't even know why I"m posting now.

Thanks for your efforts. I googled around a bit too and found even less. What I did find, as it related to climbing, agreed with you in terms of only strength/weight training for climbing once you had achieved considerable expertise in movement.

I agree with that as well, as it applies to climbing with any kind of weight attached to you.

There are a few studies suggesting an improvement in sprint performance using different types of resistance training. Squats and the use of a sprint parachute both seem to have positive effects.

But i also agree that in climbing the extra weight should be reserved for fingerboarding.

1) Chelly, et al.Effects of a Back Squat Training Program on Leg Power, Jump, and Sprint Performances in Junior Soccer Players.

2) Harrison, AJ, and Bourke, G. The Effect of Resisted Sprint Training on Speed and Strength Performance in Male Rugby Players.

I'm sure it could make you stronger. The difference is that I have the weight being disbursed between 8 fingers, not focused on one.

Maybe you would say that its your one finger or two fingers and 10 toes which is more than 8 fingers... IMO it doesn't quite work that way. If it was true that this was better than existing power training, i would be very hard to measure progress to know that it's working.

If it works for you, just be careful sall I'm sayin.

Probably something you shouldn't discuss when around beginners and intermediate's on this forum, unless prefaced with a strong disclaimer.

It's cool bro, really, no biggie. Don't even know why I"m posting now.

There are a few studies suggesting an improvement in sprint performance using different types of resistance training. Squats and the use of a sprint parachute both seem to have positive effects.

But i also agree that in climbing the extra weight should be reserved for fingerboarding.

1) Chelly, et al.Effects of a Back Squat Training Program on Leg Power, Jump, and Sprint Performances in Junior Soccer Players.

2) Harrison, AJ, and Bourke, G. The Effect of Resisted Sprint Training on Speed and Strength Performance in Male Rugby Players.

I firmly disagree. Starting at around 5.13 or v7/8 I believe weighted climbing to be a huge advantage... from month's of experiece It doesn't have an effect on my technique.

Technique will only get you so far.

I have big $$$ that weighted bouldering will be common in the near future at the advanced levels.

One of the main benefits is injury prevention. Based on experience.... it's very clear to me that I would be better off bouldering friendly v8's with 20 lbs on me than it would be to boulder v10's that by nature will almost always be less friendly, however, the difficulty or strength gained is equivalent. In fact, I'm so exicited about this type of training.... it's truly amazing how quickly one can get stronger while feeling significantly less sore in the fingers.

Try it first, repetitively, yourself. Then report back.

The best way I've found is to get a bunch of hard boulder problems dialed at my gym that are friendly, then add weight and repeat them.

I'm sure it's possible that it could hurt your technique, but used as power training/to stave off injury when your body is telling you to slow down, it's money. MONEY!

Is technique really that complicated for those of us that have done the same moves thousands of times already anyway?

Very rarely at this point do I learn a new "technique" and even more rare are the times that the new technique I learn would not have been learned if I had some extra weight on me.

For beginners, bad, for advanced to semi pro to pro ... it's money... me and all my friends do it. They all boulder v11-v14.

Anyone who disagrees owes it to themselves to try it first.

I reccoment the Ironware UNI vest. The 10 lb vest is most comfortable, however I like the 20 lb vest for versatility is weight. 10 lbs you almost dont notice, which is neat becaue you have to be 5-10% stronger to do the same climb with it on. I like 20 lbs better, you'll find you really have to bear down and exagerate your movement. Then you take it off and float up the rock.

This is really a completely different issue.

Strength training for improved sports performance is VERY well supported in scienific literature. There is good evidence that strength training reduces certain injuries, like ACL injuries in basketball players, hamstring injuries in sprinters, and shoulder injuries in throwing athletes.

It's not surprising that swinging a weighted bat is not effective training for hitting a baseball. The forces are in the wrong direction. Still, when I was playing ball, I'd swing a weighted bat just to warm up.

But strapping a weighted vest on yourself for rock climbing? It's certainly plausible that this could be less than helpful for learning how to move effectively. Once you move well, if strength is a limiting factor for a certain route or climber, there could be some usefulness to it.

Like I said, call me whatever you want...... if you do it..... you will agree. This isn't theory for me.... I"VE DONE IT and it works.

But if you want to keep going back and forth about things I've tried that you'd like to discredit even though you aren't willing to test it yourself... we can do that too. I need breaks at work.

Flesh, elsewhere you described what you did in more detail. You lost a significant amount of weight and began a training program that included weighted and unweighted campusing and bouldering. After a few months you broke through a plateau.

However, because your regimen was multi-faceted, you can't say for certain which elements of it were responsible for your progress: maybe it was just the weight loss, or the campusing. Maybe the weighted bouldering did nothing, or even impeded your progress. You cannot say that you did X, Y, and Z simultaneously, and then claim that each of X, Y, and Z, was itself responsible for your improvement, which is, among various posts, precisely what you've done.

Jay