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TheNags
Jul 29, 2011, 4:05 PM
Post #26 of 41
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Registered: Jun 18, 2011
Posts: 53
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Kartessa wrote: jacques wrote: TheNags wrote: Hi everyone, I have only been climbing about two and a half months now, and I noticed that outdoors I can lead a 5.10a/b and some of my gym routes that are rated 5.10a make me feel pumped out on TR. I am wondering if its just me doing something weird with my technique or if the rating might be off. sorry to be late to answer. Yes there is something about technique in my opinion. Actually, there is a tendance to say that trad is dangerous and good bolt route are safe. when they teach you in a gym, they gave you the impression that you are good. When you go outside, and bail in a scary 5.6, you will blame the rating of the climber who did the first ascent...not you: you are soooo good, you climb 5.10. I am not 'laughing at you, I just want you to understand that if you climb 5.10 in two month....it will be possible to a strong man in the sixty to climb 5.10 as well. It is not the case and there is a reason. There is more than two important think in climbing: you can power up a route or you can climb a route technically. Most climber who begin with a martial art formation can power up a route. They have strong finger because of the way you hold your partner in martial art and you need to do ten pull up to climb 5.10. Technically is when you climb and can not do it. You fall and rest on the rope. At that place, you try different position to the one that can be done. You are working in a repetition move like in martial art....your level of anticipation (looking at your position in the space from above and which muscle are use to do the move) is close to near zero. so, in a trad pitch, when you have technical and power up move, the climber of the fifty seventy play the game of anticipation...which is fun and not so scary when someone gave you a good technique in protecting a pitch. Today, as they want to protect there child as in a children garden, you play the game of art martial: you repeat a move from above or to a close bolt, as many time as finally you made a mistake and finf the good sequence. Sorry to be irronical. I am probably as bad as those who don't teach you how to well protect a route and bring you on some think dangerous to discourage you. Trad climbing is dangferous. To climb well, you have to train anticipation and you most train every body position in a gym, but test your ability outside. If you can not make it after one or two try: aid it and come back to the gym to practice. INRT
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sungam
Jul 29, 2011, 4:12 PM
Post #27 of 41
(1932 views)
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Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26804
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TheNags wrote: Kartessa wrote: jacques wrote: TheNags wrote: Hi everyone, I have only been climbing about two and a half months now, and I noticed that outdoors I can lead a 5.10a/b and some of my gym routes that are rated 5.10a make me feel pumped out on TR. I am wondering if its just me doing something weird with my technique or if the rating might be off. sorry to be late to answer. Yes there is something about technique in my opinion. Actually, there is a tendance to say that trad is dangerous and good bolt route are safe. when they teach you in a gym, they gave you the impression that you are good. When you go outside, and bail in a scary 5.6, you will blame the rating of the climber who did the first ascent...not you: you are soooo good, you climb 5.10. I am not 'laughing at you, I just want you to understand that if you climb 5.10 in two month....it will be possible to a strong man in the sixty to climb 5.10 as well. It is not the case and there is a reason. There is more than two important think in climbing: you can power up a route or you can climb a route technically. Most climber who begin with a martial art formation can power up a route. They have strong finger because of the way you hold your partner in martial art and you need to do ten pull up to climb 5.10. Technically is when you climb and can not do it. You fall and rest on the rope. At that place, you try different position to the one that can be done. You are working in a repetition move like in martial art....your level of anticipation (looking at your position in the space from above and which muscle are use to do the move) is close to near zero. so, in a trad pitch, when you have technical and power up move, the climber of the fifty seventy play the game of anticipation...which is fun and not so scary when someone gave you a good technique in protecting a pitch. Today, as they want to protect there child as in a children garden, you play the game of art martial: you repeat a move from above or to a close bolt, as many time as finally you made a mistake and finf the good sequence. Sorry to be irronical. I am probably as bad as those who don't teach you how to well protect a route and bring you on some think dangerous to discourage you. Trad climbing is dangferous. To climb well, you have to train anticipation and you most train every body position in a gym, but test your ability outside. If you can not make it after one or two try: aid it and come back to the gym to practice. INRT INRT?
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TheNags
Jul 29, 2011, 4:22 PM
Post #28 of 41
(1927 views)
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Registered: Jun 18, 2011
Posts: 53
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I am now thoroughly confused by the acronyms... I mark this as Nags-0 Sungam-1
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adelphos
Jul 29, 2011, 5:50 PM
Post #29 of 41
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Registered: Jul 27, 2011
Posts: 56
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Probably talked this one to death already, but I see beginners make this mistake a lot. Ratings do designate difficulty, but the rating is not the only aspect of route difficulty. The 5.10 outside played to your strengths, then you went to the gym and found that most 5.10s are beyond your abilities. 5.10 slab is completely different from 5.10 overhang.
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Toast_in_the_Machine
Jul 29, 2011, 6:19 PM
Post #30 of 41
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Registered: Sep 12, 2008
Posts: 5208
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TheNags wrote: I am now thoroughly confused by the acronyms... I mark this as Nags-0 Sungam-1
I'm not reading that
Too long, didn't read
PTFTW, however, is only taught, not told.
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rangerrob
Jul 30, 2011, 6:31 PM
Post #32 of 41
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Registered: Apr 8, 2003
Posts: 641
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J Ung....you're comparing apples and apples. Slab, overhang, crack.....is all rock climbing. Indoor wall climbing is not.
(This post was edited by rangerrob on Jul 30, 2011, 6:34 PM)
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sungam
Jul 30, 2011, 7:01 PM
Post #33 of 41
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Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26804
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rangerrob wrote: J Ung....you're comparing apples and apples. Slab, overhang, crack.....is all rock climbing. Indoor wall climbing is not.
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dindolino32
Aug 7, 2011, 8:54 PM
Post #34 of 41
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Registered: May 3, 2008
Posts: 155
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First off, Gym climbing doesn't mean anything unless you are only a gym climber. Second, it definitely matters where the route setters have climbed. A perfect example would be climbing in Horseshoe Canyon Ranch AR versus Vedauwoo. I can climb 12's at horseshoe and onsight some, where as in Vedauwoo I havent even made it to the mid 11's. SO, I always try to keep that in mind while setting. I rate somewhat stiff. I also acknowledge it though. We dont have any 13's because none of us can climb that outside. Also, chasing grades is bad for your mind. Find a route, climb it, fail 100 times and then send it. If it seems impossible, work harder and train! If it IS impossible, climb different routes until it is within your grasp (pun intended).
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dindolino32
Aug 7, 2011, 9:00 PM
Post #35 of 41
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Registered: May 3, 2008
Posts: 155
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Also, actually work on training. I see a lot of guys not progress because it is never fun to work their weaknesses. If you arent flexible enough, stretch regularly. Cant do dynamic moves, boulder 4x4's. Crimps were my weakness so I started hangboarding, then ARCing for endurance. The results were within 3 weeks of real training. You cant finish the day by just trying routes. You finish with exercises.
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redonkulus
Aug 7, 2011, 10:45 PM
Post #36 of 41
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Registered: May 2, 2010
Posts: 216
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I would contend that's not entirely true. I improved markedly by simply climbing 3 days a week instead of two. Like 8 grades in 2 months. I'm sure there will come a point where the only way for me to improve is to train specifically, but I haven't reached it yet.
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Toast_in_the_Machine
Aug 9, 2011, 3:18 AM
Post #37 of 41
(1714 views)
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Registered: Sep 12, 2008
Posts: 5208
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dindolino32 wrote: First off, Gym climbing doesn't mean anything unless you are only a gym climber. Second, it definitely matters where the route setters have climbed. A perfect example would be climbing in Horseshoe Canyon Ranch AR versus Vedauwoo. I can climb 12's at horseshoe and onsight some, where as in Vedauwoo I havent even made it to the mid 11's. SO, I always try to keep that in mind while setting. I rate somewhat stiff. I also acknowledge it though. We dont have any 13's because none of us can climb that outside. Also, chasing grades is bad for your mind. Find a route, climb it, fail 100 times and then send it. If it seems impossible, work harder and train! If it IS impossible, climb different routes until it is within your grasp (pun intended).
(bold mine)
Like I said, blame the setters or try my newest tactic: quit the gym.
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Learner
Aug 9, 2011, 3:38 AM
Post #38 of 41
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Registered: May 28, 2011
Posts: 187
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Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: dindolino32 wrote: First off, Gym climbing doesn't mean anything unless you are only a gym climber. Second, it definitely matters where the route setters have climbed. A perfect example would be climbing in Horseshoe Canyon Ranch AR versus Vedauwoo. I can climb 12's at horseshoe and onsight some, where as in Vedauwoo I havent even made it to the mid 11's. SO, I always try to keep that in mind while setting. I rate somewhat stiff. I also acknowledge it though. We dont have any 13's because none of us can climb that outside. Also, chasing grades is bad for your mind. Find a route, climb it, fail 100 times and then send it. If it seems impossible, work harder and train! If it IS impossible, climb different routes until it is within your grasp (pun intended). (bold mine) Like I said, blame the setters or try my newest tactic: quit the gym.
Ignore the grade and continue to challenge yourself to execute the moves perfectly. If a route challenges you to do that, it is a good route for you. It will make you a better climber. In fact, a route that is graded easier than another may be a better route for you if it possesses movements that don't cater so much to your strengths.
(This post was edited by Learner on Aug 9, 2011, 3:40 AM)
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dindolino32
Aug 9, 2011, 6:14 PM
Post #39 of 41
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Registered: May 3, 2008
Posts: 155
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Dear Toast,
For the record. I dont know Learner.
Dear Learner,
Good point!
I have had routes that were completely my weaknesses and then trained until I COULD do them. I can think of a few monumental routes that were up on the wall for a year, after working other crimpy routes, AND actively working out for climbing, I sent it on lead. Wierd movements/sequences and all!
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dindolino32
Aug 9, 2011, 6:15 PM
Post #40 of 41
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Registered: May 3, 2008
Posts: 155
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And, keep in mind my initial responses were directed to the whole RC.com community.
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Toast_in_the_Machine
Aug 9, 2011, 7:08 PM
Post #41 of 41
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Registered: Sep 12, 2008
Posts: 5208
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dindolino32 wrote: And, keep in mind my initial responses were directed to the whole RC.com community.
And my response was an inside joke to you. Your routesetting was not involved in my decision. Hopefully I'll see you one or two more times there.
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