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texplorer
Oct 29, 2004, 1:55 AM
Post #26 of 35
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Yes they have their problems but then there are situations where they are the only thing that works.
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esallen
Nov 1, 2004, 1:55 AM
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Don't know much about them; but I've heard some people swear by them and others curse them.
I'd actually like to purchase 1 or 2 and try them out on my own. Which sizes are most effective? (assuming I only wanted to but 2)
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tradklime
Nov 2, 2004, 3:16 PM
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I seem to use #2 and #3 most, where nothing else has a chance at fitting.
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peroxide
Nov 2, 2004, 3:30 PM
Post #29 of 35
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In my opinion, they are only valuable to the clean aid climber.
PROS: They fit in very tiny cracks. If I can't get a good cam hook placement I will look to a sliding nuts (I think the sliding nut is a bit more stable than the ball nut version). They are quite lightweight.
CONS: If you have not practiced placing, weighting, and cleaning them before climbing you are asking for a headache. They will pop out of a placement if not pre tugged with a bit of force. They will deform heavily on a short fall if they hold. They can be a pain to clean if you don't have a thin nut tool to hammer upwards on the nut.
And slightly off the topis...what Brutus said about offset aliens is soooo very true. They are clean climbing bliss. I would trade a set of regular aliens for another set of offsets. They place wonderfully in most of what Yosemite offers.
Cheers,
Peroxide
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brutusofwyde
Nov 4, 2004, 12:31 AM
Post #30 of 35
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In reply to: I seem to use #2 and #3 most, where nothing else has a chance at fitting.
Absolutely #2 and #3. These nearly always accompany me on backcountry clean, free FA's, and get used quite often.
My guess is that those who see them only as aid tools don't do a lot of free climbing where they are the only thing that will work.
OTOH, last year Nurse Ratchet and I put up a 5.10 route at Potter's Rock in Sonora, and named it...
Low Balls
Guess why?
Brutus
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davidji
Nov 4, 2004, 12:50 AM
Post #31 of 35
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In reply to: I do not like that the ball will sort of slop around, almost to the point of being off of the sliding plane (sliders stayed in that channel until you f*ed it up anyway:-) |
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dredsovrn
Nov 4, 2004, 1:30 AM
Post #32 of 35
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I have tried to use Zeros in place of ballnuts sometimes, but ballnuts fit in smaller places. That would be a big advantage sometimes. When I do find a good spot for a Zero, to set it right, is real close to the never gonna come out placement. The jury is still out on the Zero for me. How's that for sort of an answer?
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ricardol
Nov 4, 2004, 1:38 AM
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what was the question?? --
ahh yes .. ballnuts, what we like, what we dont...
I own the 3 smallest ballnuts .. (blue, red, yellow)... and carry them on my aid rack. why? --
because they are all smaller than a black alien, and are active protection -- they cover sizes that my offset nuts would cover, and fit into placements were offset placements could not go. (parallel cracks).
using ballnuts, you can get bomber placements in cracks that would otherwise take lost arrows.
So thats the good..
The bad: hard to clean, hard to tell when you have a bomber placement... easy to damage .. 2 ballnuts that started out as new on the trip are now pretty beat up.. and they got about 3 placements each. -- you really beat the sh*t out of them when you have to use a hammer to get them out
I would not use ball nuts on trad, since the only way i can tell if the placement is good is to test it. (by stomping on it). I've pulled way too many ballnut placements that i thought were good by testing.
=============================
for the most part though these pieces are sort of "last resort" type of pieces, usually coming off the rack once all the small aliens, and obvious nut placements have been exhausted, and a hook is not wanted or possible. (traverses, -- long runouts, etc).
-- ricardo
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brutusofwyde
Nov 4, 2004, 2:55 PM
Post #34 of 35
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In reply to: My slider nuts have no channel. If they rotate, it's possible for the slider to move to the side. I expected Ballnutz were refined to resist that sort of thing. From reading your post, I guess not.
Ball Nutz do indeed have a channel that resists the slider moving to the side. In a good Ball Nut placement, the slider cannot come out of this channel. When carrying them on the rack however, the ball does tend to flop around.
In reply to: for the most part though these pieces are sort of "last resort" type of pieces, usually coming off the rack once all the small aliens, and obvious nut placements have been exhausted, and a hook is not wanted or possible. (traverses, -- long runouts, etc). -- ricardo
Well said... however I would add that over the years I have become pretty well dialed on what constitutes a good Ball Nut placement. Probably from using them so much.
So in answer to the question "would you carry them on trad?"
It depends on how often you find yourself in a "Last Resort" protection situation. For me, that happens quite often (hence my philosophy of Don't Fall (TM), It's a BIG DEAL (TM) etc.). As a matter of fact, thinking back, the last climb I was on (a 3-pitch 5.9+ R in the Sierra backcountry), a #3 Ball Nut was part of the belay anchor at the top of the first pitch.
As far as Ball Nuts being hard to clean: For anyone that wants it, there is a fixed #3 Ball Nut halfway up the 6th pitch of Windhorse on the South Face of Lone Pine Peak.
Brutus of Wyde
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dirtineye
Nov 4, 2004, 6:30 PM
Post #35 of 35
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In reply to: I have tried to use Zeros in place of ballnuts sometimes, but ballnuts fit in smaller places. That would be a big advantage sometimes. When I do find a good spot for a Zero, to set it right, is real close to the never gonna come out placement. The jury is still out on the Zero for me. How's that for sort of an answer?
YOU need both, cause the Zeros fit in wider shallow (too shallow for a ball nut) places nad the ballnuts go in deeper narrow (too narros for a Zero) places.
The only question about the Zeros for me is durability. So far my little ones (green and grey, forget the purple) have held up to a bunch of short free cimbing falls.
EDIT: OK, I'm feeling civic-minded, and since it has no been mentioned in THIS thread, and probably nobody bothered to go back and read the other ones, if you cna see the head of the ballnut sticking out of hte placement, beware. for a really dependable placement, you need to have the whole head of the balnut up in there. AND, if hte ball is at either end of it's play, you may be in trouble, cause at the short end it is not engaging much, and at the long end, it may not be in the channel any more, depending on the trigger wire length. ( the length varies from nut to nut sometimes)
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