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afiveonbelay
Jul 29, 2004, 8:15 PM
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In reply to: ... then have them be on fireman's belay for the second/third/fourth person; sadly, that's not as accepted as individually rappeling. Be assured, I see your point - it's all situational. T
Hope you wear your helmet. Especially at the Gunks.
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taino
Jul 29, 2004, 8:36 PM
Post #29 of 35
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In reply to: In reply to: ... then have them be on fireman's belay for the second/third/fourth person; sadly, that's not as accepted as individually rappeling. Be assured, I see your point - it's all situational. T Hope you wear your helmet. Especially at the Gunks.
Yup. Especially on the "69" belay ledge. :twisted:
T
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cerikpete
Jul 29, 2004, 8:41 PM
Post #30 of 35
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: ... then have them be on fireman's belay for the second/third/fourth person; sadly, that's not as accepted as individually rappeling. Be assured, I see your point - it's all situational. T Hope you wear your helmet. Especially at the Gunks. Yup. Especially on the "69" belay ledge. :twisted: T
If only that climb had the "glory hole"
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fadeux
Jul 29, 2004, 9:28 PM
Post #31 of 35
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Registered: May 14, 2004
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Rappel backup? One Word.
Shunt.
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afiveonbelay
Jul 29, 2004, 10:54 PM
Post #32 of 35
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fadeux
why would you want a mechanical device when a friction know works just as well, weighs less, the loop/sling is multifunctional, mechanically simple?
both mechanical and knot systems could be rendered ineffective by an inexperienced rappeller panicking but then I think there would be a greater trouble in toon town.
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brutusofwyde
Jul 29, 2004, 11:12 PM
Post #33 of 35
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In reply to: Prusik knot, everytime.
as iclimlilrocks would say,
prusik or autoblock above or below the device or jumar or grigri or nothing depending on the situation the reason the prusik doesn't wear out as fast as pulling a rope through slings is that when you pull a rope through slings you are loading the slings with up to 16 pounds (the weight of two 60m x 10.5mm ropes) whereas your prusik or autoblock or whatever depending should not be weighted in this manner but attached loose enough to slide along the rope with little effort
In reply to: As a practice learned from much more seasoned climbers I now carry with me 2 prusik loops, small, around my neck, and tucked into my shirt while climbing. Always ready, for when needed, and you never know when you will need them.
I hope I have a pretty good idea when I would need them, and I prefer to keep them clipped to my harness somewhere, preferrably on a locking carabiner which together with my scratcher locker and my chalkbag locker provide three free lockers and two Prusiks for escaping the belay and ascending to an injured leader.
rappel.
Prusik {The Prusik knot was invented by Dr Karl Prusik (sometimes spelled Prussik) in the early part of last century, and as such, should be capitalized.}
In reply to: is attached above the belay device (reverso) with a shoulder lenght girth hitched to it for extension to either the belay loop, or the leg loop. IMO, it makes very little difference, as long as you have enough room to lock off.
make sure that, if the Prusik is above the belay device (Jaws) that it is not extended so far that the knot can slide out of reach. As far as above or below the device is concerned, That dead horse has been beaten to the point where even his bones are pulverized.
In reply to: The knot is held very loosely around the rope, and the repel is controlled and deliberate. Bad mistakes happen on repel, take your time.
true, depending on what you mean by "very loosely".
[snip]In reply to: That being said, the Reverso is still my favorite belay device.
Jaws for me. Or Grigri. Or plaquette (lighter, simpler, less expensive, and performs the same functions as the Reverso) or Munter or clipped hip belay or, for very skinny ropes, reversino.
But a question: If carrying the reverso, why two prussiks? can't the reverso act as one of your ascenders??
Brutus
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fadeux
Jul 31, 2004, 9:16 AM
Post #34 of 35
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Registered: May 14, 2004
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In reply to: fadeux why would you want a mechanical device when a friction know works just as well, weighs less, the loop/sling is multifunctional, mechanically simple? both mechanical and knot systems could be rendered ineffective by an inexperienced rappeller panicking but then I think there would be a greater trouble in toon town.
I will assume you mean friction knot. Don't people proofread anymore? (sorry, cheapshot, had to ask)Anyway, a shunt is designed as a rapell backup and individually tested, by Petzl. A prussik is a knot, learned from a friend, or read in a book. This prussik is tied into a cord, and is dependent on one major factor. A Human Factor. Of course, A Shunt needs to be rigged by a human, but, there are fewer things to screw up. A rare situation, but valid point, is the pinnacle of the epic in the movie Touching the Void When he dropped his cords and could not fashion a prussik to ascend the rope he was f*cked. A shunt is easy to rig with one hand. Not that we will ever encounter this, but it seems to be worth the few extra grams. In an urgent situation, I would much prefer something that is harder to screw up. I would much rather have my black diamond ATC-XP then I would rap with a munter hitch. But I know I'll need to rapell, that's why i carry it. I'll never know what I might need my shunt for.
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rockzen
Jul 31, 2004, 2:53 PM
Post #35 of 35
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Registered: Feb 21, 2003
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In reply to: I occasionally use a prussik knot or an autoblock knot to backup my rappel. The question I ask is: how safe is the prussik cord/autoblobk sling after a rappel; doesn't the friction weaken the cord/sling? We use rap-rings to protect slings from rope friction when we pull the rope, why is it any safer with prussik cords? Looking forward to your opinions! Brian
I think it would only produce a lot of friction if it is weighted - like lowering in a top rope senario. So, if you are using the auto-block properly, it should not be constantly weighted - after all, it is just a backup. The real friction during the rappel is on the device.
Just my 2 cents...
Dave
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