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cracklover
Mar 16, 2005, 1:05 PM
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Dingus, you've said it twice now, so I don't think it was just a slip on your part. Freon was not prohibited in the US because of its impact on global warming (which is negligible) but because it causes the breakdown of ozone in the upper atmosphere, causing a seasonal ozone hole. The near-elimination of freon was quite successful in the turn-around of what was in the eighties threatening to be a serious environmental disaster.
Along with the elimination of DDT in the US, the elimination of freon was among the most successful "environmental programs" I know of.
And yes, I know there are no insecticides as effective as DDT, and no refrigerants (if that's a word) as effective as freon. And I know there are serious costs associated with that. But would you like to live in a world where we humans purposefully and knowingly killed off most of the large raptors? Nor would I like it if we purposefully and knowingly made the southern half of the southern hemisphere a barren uninhabitable wasteland for half the year.
GO
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cracklover
Mar 16, 2005, 1:12 PM
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Dingus and others have made the point that there is little we can do to stop any effects global warming may throw at us for the next 50 to 100 years. But how irresponsibly will our ancestors see us, living 100 to 150 years from now, if they know that we made the decision to steal from them. Steal from our own future - refusing to look at ways to begin a trend in the direction of being less wasteful, simply so we can have a few more years of this bacchanal before the last shoe drops.
Or to put it more simply, it's never "too late".
GO
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jcshaggy
Mar 16, 2005, 1:27 PM
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Apparently the ice field on Killiminjaro (spelling?) will be gone by 2025.
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lucas_timmer
Mar 16, 2005, 3:02 PM
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In reply to: LOL. Who burns the most coal right now??? The good people of India, China, Nepal, Pakistan, Bangledesh, etc should stop expecting others to solve their own self-created problems for them. DMT |
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tradklime
Mar 16, 2005, 3:52 PM
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In reply to: But it is interesting that the last increase of 3 degrees took place over a period of 5000 years and this one has taken a century. Which, just by pure coincidence, happens to be the only 100 years of industrialized, carbon-emitting economy in the history of the world.
Yes, interesting, but that's all, just interesting. Correlation and causation are not the same. It's also interesting that so called experts believe that this rapid jump in temperature is unique to this time period and that they fail to acknowledge that it could just be a blip in the larger cycle of global temperature fluctuation. It's also interesting that "experts" assume to know that the ultimate outcome of the accumulation of greenhouse gases and the "greenhouse affect" will be global warming.
The science behind the movie "The Day After Tomorrow" (ignoring the obvious dramatization) is just as real.
If humans are truely a cancer to this planet, it will work itself out. The one thing we know is that they ultimately always do. We just may not like the outcome.
Some would say that those who cling to the intrinsic value of things staying the same are just afraid of change.
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dingus
Mar 16, 2005, 3:58 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: LOL. Who burns the most coal right now??? The good people of India, China, Nepal, Pakistan, Bangledesh, etc should stop expecting others to solve their own self-created problems for them. DMT It's the stupid Yankees who refused to sign the Kyoto treat, they're the ones that drive cars who use a liter per kilometer and they use the most power but generate the least one green ways of all the modern countrys.So....
Wrong! It's China that burns the most coal.
Thanks for playing.
DMT
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mack_north
Mar 16, 2005, 4:16 PM
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In reply to: It's the stupid Yankees who refused to sign the Kyoto treat, they're the ones that drive cars who use a liter per kilometer and they use the most power but generate the least one green ways of all the modern countrys.So....
The Kyoto Treaty was a flawed piece of negotiation. Setting aside the fact that industrialized nations would've carried the entire burden, Clinton and Gore realized it would be political suicide for Gore in 2000 and let the thing die. It was easy for the EU to make their Kyoto quotas, since most of their emission cuts were already achieved in the 90s prior to Kyoto because of the stagnant nature of the European economy. Add that to the collapse of the Sheffield coal industry and the shutting down of former East German Soviet-era power plants, and Europe could achieve Kyoto cuts fairly easily. Some in Europe saw Kyoto as a possible way to slow the US economy, which is what it would surely have done if implemented to the 7% emissions cut that the Clinton White House negotiated.
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