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aerili
Jan 22, 2007, 4:50 PM
Post #51 of 68
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pro_alien wrote: Surely the FDA regulated pharmaceutical industry is an even bigger racket ?
No, despite pharmaceutical company profits, etc., the supplement industry is BY FAR a bigger racket. (Although I do personally feel there needs to be reform in pharm. drug prices and the way the industry operates in general.)
Has a supplement ever been scientifically shown to save anyone's life or keep them alive longer (like blood pressure meds, insulin, and so on)? Or has it mainly just taken hard earned money out of desperate and/or gullible people's pockets with little to prove in most cases? If you had worked in the health promotion business as many years as I did, you would see the reality of this industry's constant and unabiding fraud.
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ebonezercabbage
Jan 22, 2007, 5:32 PM
Post #52 of 68
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This may be off topic a little, but then again, i'm a 200 lbs climber with a question too.
What the heck can you drink if your on a diet. I hear cut out juices and sugary drinks like soda. Ok, that makes sense, but what does it leave? Only water? I mean, i like a little flavor in my liquids....something, anything.
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styleboy
Jan 22, 2007, 6:51 PM
Post #53 of 68
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For low to no calories drink water, crystal light, diet teas. Go ahead and drink things like milk, orange juice but like any other food in your diet, just keep an eye on how much you are consuming. Stay far away from the soda.
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dbrayack
Jan 22, 2007, 6:55 PM
Post #54 of 68
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I've lost a good bit of weight throughout my climbing career. The best thing I found was to eat less, run a lot and climb all the time.
Kind of like being exorexic....as you refine your eating habits, you'll start researching stuff like the GI index and begin to change the types of food you eat.
just a few basic rules:
No Fast Food
No Junk Food
No Soda (ok diet is fine)
You likely want to lose a lot of muscle mass as well; most climbers nowadays are skinny as rails (with a few exceptions, Fred Nicole etc.)
Hope that helps.
-Danno
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salty
Jan 30, 2007, 7:54 PM
Post #55 of 68
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Climbing is primarily (especially bigger grades) about power to weight ratios.
I'm 46 and trust me as your age increases your strength decreases (compared to 20) so I've tried everything even steriods and nothing helped me to climb as hard as when I was younger.
My buddy is 20kg lighter than me but I'm x 10 stronger but he can pull harder crimper moves than me.
A toe is a toe and mine has to hold an extra 20kg. My lockoff and smallish hands has to hold and propell this extra weight - so lighter is better in climbing.
Creatine, steroids etc are MASS builders - ditch them.
What is important is a damn fine Protein supplement like Whey etc as amino acids are for muscle recovery and good carbs (not bread) and rest (good sleep).
My training;
Mon: Cardio (Nordic skier) Chest, stomach, triceps
Tues: Bouldering Traverses, Power Moves - 2hrs
Wed: Cardio, Lunges, Stomach, triceps
Thurs: Vertical Wall laps - Endurance - 2hrs
Fri: Rest
Sat: Surf or climb
Sun: Surf or climb
Climbing on real rock is done either Sat or Sun with a minimum of 5 routes (I climb trad) 5.8 to 5.10b
Weight is 86kg, waist 34cm
(This post was edited by salty on Jan 30, 2007, 8:08 PM)
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jt512
Jan 30, 2007, 8:10 PM
Post #56 of 68
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salty wrote: Climbing is primarily (especially bigger grades) about power to weight ratios. I'm 46 and trust me as your age increases so does your strength (compared to 20) so I've tried everything even steriods and nothing helped me to climb harder grades. My buddy is 20kg lighter than me but I'm x 10 stronger but he can pull harder crimper moves than me. A toe is a toe and mine has to hold an extra 20kg. My lockoff and smallish hands has to hold and propell this extra weight - so lighter is better in climbing. Creatine, steroids etc are MASS builders - ditch them. What is important is a damn fine Protein supplement like Whey etc as amino acids are for muscle recovery and good carbs (not bread) and rest (good sleep). My training; Mon: Cardio (Nordic skier) Chest, stomach, triceps Tues: Bouldering Traverses, Power Moves - 2hrs Wed: Cardio, Lunges, Stomach, triceps Thurs: Vertical Wall laps - Endurance - 2hrs Fri: Rest Sat: Surf or climb Sun: Surf or climb Climbing on real rock is done either Sat or Sun with a minimum of 5 routes (I climb trad) 5.8 to 5.10b Weight is 86kg, waist 34cm
So, if I do all that shit you do, I could do a pull-up on a boulder problem, like in the picture?
Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on Jan 30, 2007, 8:11 PM)
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charlet_poser
Jan 30, 2007, 8:38 PM
Post #57 of 68
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I' m lazy and don't want to read all 3 pages, so if any of this is a repeat...oh well.
I found that using climbing as a cardio workout accomplished both of the goals you've set for yourself. By doing 3 sets of non-stop traversing for 30 mins (with 10 min breaks inbetween) around my local gym, I worked up a pretty good sweat (lost weight) and improved my technique to allow me to climb for longer priods of time.
The key is to keep yourself just below a pump while traversing, once you cross your anabolic threshhold, you begin deterioirating your musces, resulting in muscle mass growth on your rest days.
Also, according to "one move to many" (a book on climbing injuries and training) there is no evidence that creatine helps climbers.
(This post was edited by charlet_poser on Jan 30, 2007, 8:51 PM)
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sidepull
Jan 31, 2007, 12:35 AM
Post #58 of 68
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Registered: Sep 11, 2001
Posts: 2335
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jt512 wrote: salty wrote: Climbing is primarily (especially bigger grades) about power to weight ratios. I'm 46 and trust me as your age increases so does your strength (compared to 20) so I've tried everything even steriods and nothing helped me to climb harder grades. My buddy is 20kg lighter than me but I'm x 10 stronger but he can pull harder crimper moves than me. A toe is a toe and mine has to hold an extra 20kg. My lockoff and smallish hands has to hold and propell this extra weight - so lighter is better in climbing. Creatine, steroids etc are MASS builders - ditch them. What is important is a damn fine Protein supplement like Whey etc as amino acids are for muscle recovery and good carbs (not bread) and rest (good sleep). My training; Mon: Cardio (Nordic skier) Chest, stomach, triceps Tues: Bouldering Traverses, Power Moves - 2hrs Wed: Cardio, Lunges, Stomach, triceps Thurs: Vertical Wall laps - Endurance - 2hrs Fri: Rest Sat: Surf or climb Sun: Surf or climb Climbing on real rock is done either Sat or Sun with a minimum of 5 routes (I climb trad) 5.8 to 5.10b Weight is 86kg, waist 34cm [image]http://www.readyshare.com/Users/ldsalt@icon-co-za/img_1498_PICASSA.jpg[/image] So, if I do all that shit you do, I could do a pull-up on a boulder problem, like in the picture? Jay
Jay, you might not be able to do the pull up, but you'll look great with your 34 centimeter waist and neon shorts.
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jt512
Jan 31, 2007, 2:36 AM
Post #59 of 68
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sidepull wrote: jt512 wrote: salty wrote: Climbing is primarily (especially bigger grades) about power to weight ratios. I'm 46 and trust me as your age increases so does your strength (compared to 20) so I've tried everything even steriods and nothing helped me to climb harder grades. My buddy is 20kg lighter than me but I'm x 10 stronger but he can pull harder crimper moves than me. A toe is a toe and mine has to hold an extra 20kg. My lockoff and smallish hands has to hold and propell this extra weight - so lighter is better in climbing. Creatine, steroids etc are MASS builders - ditch them. What is important is a damn fine Protein supplement like Whey etc as amino acids are for muscle recovery and good carbs (not bread) and rest (good sleep). My training; Mon: Cardio (Nordic skier) Chest, stomach, triceps Tues: Bouldering Traverses, Power Moves - 2hrs Wed: Cardio, Lunges, Stomach, triceps Thurs: Vertical Wall laps - Endurance - 2hrs Fri: Rest Sat: Surf or climb Sun: Surf or climb Climbing on real rock is done either Sat or Sun with a minimum of 5 routes (I climb trad) 5.8 to 5.10b Weight is 86kg, waist 34cm [image]http://www.readyshare.com/Users/ldsalt@icon-co-za/img_1498_PICASSA.jpg[/image] So, if I do all that shit you do, I could do a pull-up on a boulder problem, like in the picture? Jay Jay, you might not be able to do the pull up, but you'll look great with your 34 centimeter waist and neon shorts.
That's 13 inches, according to my calculator!
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miavzero
Jan 31, 2007, 3:49 AM
Post #60 of 68
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Registered: Oct 8, 2005
Posts: 624
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jt512 wrote: salty wrote: Climbing is primarily (especially bigger grades) about power to weight ratios. I'm 46 and trust me as your age increases so does your strength (compared to 20) so I've tried everything even steriods and nothing helped me to climb harder grades. My buddy is 20kg lighter than me but I'm x 10 stronger but he can pull harder crimper moves than me. A toe is a toe and mine has to hold an extra 20kg. My lockoff and smallish hands has to hold and propell this extra weight - so lighter is better in climbing. Creatine, steroids etc are MASS builders - ditch them. What is important is a damn fine Protein supplement like Whey etc as amino acids are for muscle recovery and good carbs (not bread) and rest (good sleep). My training; Mon: Cardio (Nordic skier) Chest, stomach, triceps Tues: Bouldering Traverses, Power Moves - 2hrs Wed: Cardio, Lunges, Stomach, triceps Thurs: Vertical Wall laps - Endurance - 2hrs Fri: Rest Sat: Surf or climb Sun: Surf or climb Climbing on real rock is done either Sat or Sun with a minimum of 5 routes (I climb trad) 5.8 to 5.10b Weight is 86kg, waist 34cm [image]http://www.readyshare.com/Users/ldsalt@icon-co-za/img_1498_PICASSA.jpg[/image] So, if I do all that shit you do, I could do a pull-up on a boulder problem, like in the picture? Jay
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jt512
Jan 31, 2007, 3:55 AM
Post #61 of 68
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miavzero wrote: jt512 wrote: salty wrote: Climbing is primarily (especially bigger grades) about power to weight ratios. I'm 46 and trust me as your age increases so does your strength (compared to 20) so I've tried everything even steriods and nothing helped me to climb harder grades. My buddy is 20kg lighter than me but I'm x 10 stronger but he can pull harder crimper moves than me. A toe is a toe and mine has to hold an extra 20kg. My lockoff and smallish hands has to hold and propell this extra weight - so lighter is better in climbing. Creatine, steroids etc are MASS builders - ditch them. What is important is a damn fine Protein supplement like Whey etc as amino acids are for muscle recovery and good carbs (not bread) and rest (good sleep). My training; Mon: Cardio (Nordic skier) Chest, stomach, triceps Tues: Bouldering Traverses, Power Moves - 2hrs Wed: Cardio, Lunges, Stomach, triceps Thurs: Vertical Wall laps - Endurance - 2hrs Fri: Rest Sat: Surf or climb Sun: Surf or climb Climbing on real rock is done either Sat or Sun with a minimum of 5 routes (I climb trad) 5.8 to 5.10b Weight is 86kg, waist 34cm [image]http://www.readyshare.com/Users/ldsalt@icon-co-za/img_1498_PICASSA.jpg[/image] So, if I do all that shit you do, I could do a pull-up on a boulder problem, like in the picture? Jay So if I assume the role of backseat driver on the short bus. and make more than 10,000 posts doing so, I am then entitled to be a total dick?
Apparently, one is entitled with just 240 posts.
Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on Jan 31, 2007, 3:57 AM)
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salty
Feb 1, 2007, 2:24 PM
Post #62 of 68
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Registered: Jan 30, 2007
Posts: 8
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The fact is my young climbers that if you are still wanting to climb 5.10 or above when you reach my age you had better have a very strict training regimen with good supplimentation your whole life.
The previous boulder pic is a very simple climb (5.8ish) just a little highball with no pads as this is situated in the foothills of the Drakensberg (where the rock is very very dodgy) in Natal South Africa.
When you are young its easy to pull 5.11 with no training. My 15 yr old son could send 5.13 and above with little training and my 11 yr old could onsite bolted 5.8 with little experience.
Some climbers have been gifted with excellent genetics and I've seen some very skinny underdeveloped guys easily do 1 arm pull ups.
Chris Sharma blew the whole climbing world upside down at age 15 - so did Katie Brown with just about zero training
And yes I know guys who sent 5.12 trad in there late 20's who can't even get up a 5.7 anymore in their early 40's.
Another highball boulder in the mountains.
If you love climbing and want to climb as hard as you can at my age you have to put in the time.
Anyway my 2c
Cheers
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jt512
Feb 1, 2007, 4:24 PM
Post #63 of 68
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salty wrote: The fact is my young climbers that if you are still wanting to climb 5.10 or above when you reach my age you had better have a very strict training regimen with good supplimentation your whole life.
I'm 48 years old, take no supplements, climb 5.12d without training; and I say you are talking out of your ass.
In reply to: Some climbers have been gifted with excellent genetics and I've seen some very skinny underdeveloped guys easily do 1 arm pull ups.
I can do zero one-arm pull-ups, a useless exercise for rock climbing.
I'm not trying to dis training; climbing-specific training is important. However, the training program you outlined in your earlier post looks like it leaves a lot to be desired. With a training program more appropriate to rock climbing you can probably climb much harder than you currently can. Pick up a copy of The Self-Coached Climber to acquaint yourself with modern principles of climbing-specific training.
Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on Feb 1, 2007, 4:28 PM)
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salty
Feb 2, 2007, 10:34 PM
Post #64 of 68
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True
If I could climb more I would - but as a director of several business's I cannot.
Some of the best older climbers here are poor/divorced and live poor - bit of a shitty trade off me thinks
The best training is climbing on different rock in different locations but as you get older a little bit of longevity/health genetics do come into play(IMHP).
Tony Dick here in SA climbs the same grades - even onsites those grade on trad - AND he's 60.
Other gifts - there was one climber I knew who could piss it up all nite - smoke it up - walk up to a route at 6am with 6 pack in hand and cruise a multi-pitch 5.13 and he never used to train - good genes.
Me on the other hand and like others with family, business's etc have to squeeze in the training and the bouldering/indoor wall enables me to stay at least a little climbing specific fit - there is no way I could climb decently without it.
Also I surf, Mountaineer and bike which spreads me a little thin
I will definately look up the book on Amazon - thanks for the tip
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RockMasterTC
Feb 11, 2007, 2:54 AM
Post #65 of 68
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Registered: Jan 26, 2007
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Being somewhat of a nutrition nut i will throw in some advice...now i haven't read ever post here but creatine causes the muscle to retain water making them bulky. I would recommend drinking protein powder. I drink a supplement called Muscle Milk, you can buy it at GNC. It has a higher fat content than most powders but the fats that are in it don not remain in the body. Also it is one of the best tasting powders i have ever had.
I drink as the directions call for...one portion before my workout, one after my workout, and one right before bed so my body stays metabolizing all night.
Muscle Milk is designed to repair your muscle damage quicker than other proteins. It will boost your energy and help you to burn more fat. Protein is more difficult for the body to break down so in the long run your body uses your energy reserves, fat, to help with breaking it down, then the protein goes to work repairing your muscle.
I also drink a protein powder shake for breakfast and then a snack 2 hours before lunch to help curve my appetite.
There is a great book called The Abs Diet that has tons of information and most of the weight loss tips in the book are based on protein shakes and diet.
You can pretty much eat what you want, it's just that the shakes help with controlling hunger and appetite which will help with the weight loss. I used to be in your weight range and that book changed my life bringing me down to 190 in about 4-5 months which is fast.
Good luck and i hope this helps
P.S. Climb as much as you can.....i know people are saying for you to run a lot and i didn't see any calorie numbers but i know from doing some research that 1 hour of running can burn anywhere from 300-500 calories per hour depending on how fast you are going, and the calorie burn stops about 30 minutes after you are done. Climbing, however, burns over 1000 calories per hour, and with the strain and muscle damage that naturally occurs will cause your body to burn calories for up to 24 hours in the long run leading to a longer calorie burn due to your body repairing itself i belive roughly another 1500-2000 calories. so 2 hours of climbing and a day of rest with a proper diet leads to about 4000 calories burned compared to running for an hour only burning 550-600 calories.
(This post was edited by RockMasterTC on Feb 11, 2007, 3:07 AM)
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kevinheiss
Feb 12, 2007, 2:12 AM
Post #66 of 68
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creatine will seem like you are gaining weight because your muscle is retainning water. Once you get of it, you will lose that weight (water) real quick. Creatine is suppose to help you get that extra rep or two by giving you that extra energy. It doesn't really help you if you don't do a god workout.
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bigfatrock
Feb 12, 2007, 4:18 PM
Post #67 of 68
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Posts: 1321
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You can easily lose weight while still climbing. The best way to lose weight is to reduce your calorie intake. Two years ago I lost 30lbs in 6 months by mostly only reducing my calorie intake, it wasn't until towards the end of that six months that I started to get into the gym. I was 210 pounds when I started my reduced calorie diet. I now weight about 175. so I lost a total of 35lbs.
I wasn't even really focused on how healthy I was eating, I just cut back the calories I was eating. I can't remember the formula for figuring out how much I needed to cut back, but it had to do with my BMI and my current weight.
So if you are cutting back your calories along with working out and climbing you will drop weight pretty fast. I found a website with some basic information about calorie intake that might be helpful http://www.annecollins.com/calories/calorie-needs-men.htm.
If your gym has fitness instructors you may want to get a fitness assessment. Some gyms offer the first one for free to get you hooked on a training program, but you could at least get your BMI calculated and figure out how much you need to cut back.
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wsch
Feb 13, 2007, 2:37 AM
Post #68 of 68
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Registered: Jul 27, 2006
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Tea, real tea, is 0 calories and delicious
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