Why not go with the X Monster, which is made for ice climbing? Rather than the Monster, which is made specifically for dry tooling, and maybe a bit of mixed climbing.
They both would work on easy ice (though it might be a pain using the dry tool specific Monster). The X Monster would definitely be possible to use for alpine routes. Though it is more tailored to pure ice, I have heard of people using it in the alpine, and it seemed to do ok.
X Monster
Original Monster, probably not so good for what you want.
Why not go with the X Monster, which is made for ice climbing? Rather than the Monster, which is made specifically for dry tooling, and maybe a bit of mixed climbing.
They both would work on easy ice (though it might be a pain using the dry tool specific Monster). The X Monster would definitely be possible to use for alpine routes. Though it is more tailored to pure ice, I have heard of people using it in the alpine, and it seemed to do ok.
X Monster [image]http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:cCZpNQZenxyBUM:http://www.trailspace.com/out/images/aHR0cDovL3M3b25kZW1hbmQxLnNjZW5lNy5jb20vaXMvaW1hZ2UvTW9vc2VqYXdNQi8xMDAyMTcyMF96bT8kcHJvZHVjdDQ3NSQ%3D[/image]
Original Monster, probably not so good for what you want. [image]http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:9IOtfLr8hW9nbM:http://www.mountainmagic.com/equipment/climbing/climbing-section-item/icetool/icetool-image-jpg/grivel-monster.jpg[/image]
Edvin, the X-monster climbs ice very well. IN fact, they are one of the few tools I would consider replacing my takoons with... but I'm not giving up my taaks yet. The x-monsters perform great on ice and mixed. where they do require extra effort on is in alpine terrain, ie. plunging. That said, for the price, you would be hard pressed to find another tool with the same high end performance all round AND durability.
A lot of effort has been placed on lighter tools in recent years. Light is right only to a point. A lot of new ice tools do not have the head weight that grivel has. Use a tool that works for you, not a tool that you have to work hard at getting sticks. I've had a lot of people give me a hard time over my "heavy" grivel tools... the same people ask me why it looks like I put so little effort into swinging and still get great sticks in the ice.
What do you guvs feel about using Grivel Monster or similar tools for alpine routes or easier iceclimbing? There has been a couple of posts on a swedish forum about that
What do you guvs feel about using Grivel Monster or similar tools for alpine routes or easier iceclimbing? There has been a couple of posts on a swedish forum about that
I know a lot of folks are putting old style hammers on th new BD toos to get the correct head wight. Most people i know who run Nomics use the additional head weights,
One thing that nobody seems to be talking about with potentially purchasing new ice tools is the size of the grip. Depending on whether or not you have big or small hands (and how your hands fit on a large or small gripped tool) can make a significant difference in how pumped you get while climbing a pitch. I know that folks add tape to smaller grips to make them bigger, but it's worth considering all the same.
It seems that the BD tools have larger grips (for bigger hands), and the Nomics and the Grivel Quantum Techs have grips more suited for smaller hands. The Quarks seem to swing well for everybody. Like a million other people have mentioned, advice from other folks is only SO helpful in finding the right set of tools. At some point, just get what swings well for you and go with that.
I finally made the order: new BD fusions with a spare pair of laser picks. I got a deal I couldn't possibly say no to, and put in the order pretty much immediately. Hopefully they come in before the ice does.
I'll let y'all know what I think after they get some pitches on them.
Unfortunately, I called to see where they were today, and they're backordered until Jan 1. Bastards! The good news is I can probably borrow/share a pair of Quarks until then.
I've been keeping up on the conditions around here/ Doesn't look like much is going to be in by this weekend, but we'll see.
Well I don't agree w the Nomic blows on lower angle ice and as for a hammer well I have been carrying a small 3rd tool that has a streight shaft and pounds pins way better than any bent shaft tool out there
I would much rather have a servicable spike on the Nomic rather than a hammer and realy who pounds pins that much on a mixed climb anyway and with the exception of a few mixed climbs where I could have cammed a hammer I never realy needed /wanted one we always found a way to get by.
I've used the new Reactors for a few pitches the lower shaft is a good Nomic knock off w a spike and except for the fact that I can't stand the piss poor quality of the new black garbage gear and the silly gay green/ black w/silver they might be a choice for someone who can put up with the poor quality of there picks as well as the totaly bozo the clown color scheme on the Reactor.I found the swing weight on the Reactor to be too light .
Well I don't agree w the Nomic blows on lower angle ice and as for a hammer well I have been carrying a small 3rd tool that has a streight shaft and pounds pins way better than any bent shaft tool out there
I would much rather have a servicable spike on the Nomic rather than a hammer and realy who pounds pins that much on a mixed climb anyway and with the exception of a few mixed climbs where I could have cammed a hammer I never realy needed /wanted one we always found a way to get by.
I've used the new Reactors for a few pitches the lower shaft is a good Nomic knock off w a spike and except for the fact that I can't stand the piss poor quality of the new black garbage gear and the silly gay green/ black w/silver they might be a choice for someone who can put up with the poor quality of there picks as well as the totaly bozo the clown color scheme on the Reactor.I found the swing weight on the Reactor to be too light .
In reply to:
Wow, that's an impressive post.
Please reply back after you actually spend some time drytooling please.
I like both the newest Fusion and the Nomic for mixed. Love the Nomic with weights and Cascade picks on steep ice. Also used the Nomic on a bunch of lower angled alpine stuff....works great.
Hear tell the older Fusion wasn't all that great on ice. But never used one. No one questions the original Fusion on mixed. Hearing the same about ice from some users on the newest Fusion as well. But not been my experience and been using them since Nov.
(This post was edited by daneburns on Dec 27, 2009, 6:07 PM)
Shoo - I just picked up the Reactors...leashless-allaround tool and pretty cheap.
Win.
I bought a pair of Reactors on a discount last february. prior to that I was using a pair of relatively straight-shaft Camp Alpaxes. the reactors swing pretty well, but so far the best difference is that with the offset handles, I'm not punching the ice every swing.
it has been my - limited, have only climbed ice for 2 seasons - experience, that good technique with whatever tool you have, is more important than the brand or style of tool. if your technique sucks, you'll bouncing picks and smashing off dinnerplates 75% of your swings. so far, I'm down to 50% ;-)
I also took them up a solo alpine ascent last february, and they worked pretty well in "cane" mode, while frenching up the snowfields.
(This post was edited by robbovius on Jan 11, 2010, 3:45 PM)
I'm sure there's a detailed review of the 2010 Outdoor Retailer show somewhere on the internet, but for what it's worth, it looks like Petzl is redoing its tools for next winter.
The Nomic looks almost exactly the same, except they've heard the feedback and provided an optional hammer attachment. Much bigger than the one on the BD Fusion...
They've revamped the Quark for next year. The geometry of the tool looks to be exactly the same, but they've integrated a movable rest for the upper hand (very similar to the BD strike attachment, except that it can be moved). As with all Petzl tools, this one looked awesome - solid, beefy, well balanced, very versatile, etc. I think I also remember it having a clippable spike, but I'm not positive on that...
Lastly, it looks like they're bringing the Ergo back, which seems odd to me. I was under the impression that the Nomic was going to be their high end mixed tool, but if you can imagine it, the new Ergo is even more radically angled, with multiple hand rests along the upper shaft of the tool. Just sitting on their display, the thing looked a bit ridiculous. However, the guy there said that somebody took it out on some local ice (Great White Icicle no doubt...) and it actually climbs ice pretty well. (What was he going to say, that it sucks on ice and that nobody should buy it? Still...)
I should have taken some photos of these things. Petzl is also putting out two new lightweight carabiners that have just a single wire stem for the gate, with no nose to catch on bolts or gear or whatever. Petzl claims them to be the lightest full strength 'biner on the market, but I'm sure CAMP or some other company will just make things smaller and lighter...
Nothing else from the climbing section of the show really stood out to me as being anything all that different. BD, Grivel, Metolius, etc. all seemed to have nothing much new.
I'm sure there's a detailed review of the 2010 Outdoor Retailer show somewhere on the internet, but for what it's worth, it looks like Petzl is redoing its tools for next winter.
The Nomic looks almost exactly the same, except they've heard the feedback and provided an optional hammer attachment. Much bigger than the one on the BD Fusion...
They've revamped the Quark for next year. The geometry of the tool looks to be exactly the same, but they've integrated a movable rest for the upper hand (very similar to the BD strike attachment, except that it can be moved). As with all Petzl tools, this one looked awesome - solid, beefy, well balanced, very versatile, etc. I think I also remember it having a clippable spike, but I'm not positive on that...
Lastly, it looks like they're bringing the Ergo back, which seems odd to me. I was under the impression that the Nomic was going to be their high end mixed tool, but if you can imagine it, the new Ergo is even more radically angled, with multiple hand rests along the upper shaft of the tool. Just sitting on their display, the thing looked a bit ridiculous. However, the guy there said that somebody took it out on some local ice (Great White Icicle no doubt...) and it actually climbs ice pretty well. (What was he going to say, that it sucks on ice and that nobody should buy it? Still...)
I should have taken some photos of these things. Petzl is also putting out two new lightweight carabiners that have just a single wire stem for the gate, with no nose to catch on bolts or gear or whatever. Petzl claims them to be the lightest full strength 'biner on the market, but I'm sure CAMP or some other company will just make things smaller and lighter...
Nothing else from the climbing section of the show really stood out to me as being anything all that different. BD, Grivel, Metolius, etc. all seemed to have nothing much new.
i saw a side by side of the new and old quarks and the pick design is different so the old cascade picks will not fit on the new quarks (at least they look like that is the case, time will tell)
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haha, no seriously, thanks for the link, found them quite cheap over here too. 
