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jbro_135
Apr 6, 2011, 1:45 AM
Post #51 of 56
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flesh wrote: jbro_135 wrote: flesh wrote: Rufsen wrote: onceahardman wrote: jt512 wrote: onceahardman wrote: jt512 wrote: AamClimber wrote: I've been wondering for a while if wearing ankle weights while rock climbing is helpful in improving your climb or is it just more trouble than its worth. =) Thanks. It's a terrible idea, as is any weighted climbing, unless possibly you are climbing at a very advanced level. There is body of sport science literature that shows how this sort of weight training wreaks havoc on your technique, which is what you ought to be concentrating on learning, not impeding. I'm assuming you are not a very advanced climber. Jay Very interesting. I'd really like to read about it. Could you share some, please? I've seen studies of this effect for swimming and sprinting but, after two hours of searching, I can't find them again. However, I found several sources for batting in baseball. Here are two: Warm-up with weighted bat alters subsequent swing pattern and reduces swing speed.[1] Warm-up swings with weighted bat decrease subsequent swing velocity, even though batters reported that the subsequent swings were faster.[2] Jay 1. Southard D, et al. Warm-up with baseball bats of varying moments of inertia: effect on bat velocity and swing pattern. Res Q Exerc Sport. 2003 Sep;74(3):270-6. 2. Otsuji T, et al. After-effects of using a weighted bat and subsequent swing velocitty and batters' perceptions of swing velocity and heaviness. Percept Mot Skills. 2002 Feb;94(1):119-26. Thanks for your efforts. I googled around a bit too and found even less. What I did find, as it related to climbing, agreed with you in terms of only strength/weight training for climbing once you had achieved considerable expertise in movement. I agree with that as well, as it applies to climbing with any kind of weight attached to you. There are a few studies suggesting an improvement in sprint performance using different types of resistance training. Squats and the use of a sprint parachute both seem to have positive effects. But i also agree that in climbing the extra weight should be reserved for fingerboarding. 1) Chelly, et al.Effects of a Back Squat Training Program on Leg Power, Jump, and Sprint Performances in Junior Soccer Players. 2) Harrison, AJ, and Bourke, G. The Effect of Resisted Sprint Training on Speed and Strength Performance in Male Rugby Players. I firmly disagree. Starting at around 5.13 or v7/8 I believe weighted climbing to be a huge advantage... from month's of experiece It doesn't have an effect on my technique. Technique will only get you so far. I have big $$$ that weighted bouldering will be common in the near future at the advanced levels. One of the main benefits is injury prevention. Based on experience.... it's very clear to me that I would be better off bouldering friendly v8's with 20 lbs on me than it would be to boulder v10's that by nature will almost always be less friendly, however, the difficulty or strength gained is equivalent. In fact, I'm so exicited about this type of training.... it's truly amazing how quickly one can get stronger while feeling significantly less sore in the fingers. Try it first, repetitively, yourself. Then report back. The best way I've found is to get a bunch of hard boulder problems dialed at my gym that are friendly, then add weight and repeat them. I'm sure it's possible that it could hurt your technique, but used as power training/to stave off injury when your body is telling you to slow down, it's money. MONEY! Is technique really that complicated for those of us that have done the same moves thousands of times already anyway? Very rarely at this point do I learn a new "technique" and even more rare are the times that the new technique I learn would not have been learned if I had some extra weight on me. For beginners, bad, for advanced to semi pro to pro ... it's money... me and all my friends do it. They all boulder v11-v14. Anyone who disagrees owes it to themselves to try it first. I reccoment the Ironware UNI vest. The 10 lb vest is most comfortable, however I like the 20 lb vest for versatility is weight. 10 lbs you almost dont notice, which is neat becaue you have to be 5-10% stronger to do the same climb with it on. I like 20 lbs better, you'll find you really have to bear down and exagerate your movement. Then you take it off and float up the rock. The studies are talking about baseball swings. Compared to baseball swings, rock climbing is significantly more complex, so your logic doesn't make sense. You can't have climbing techniques more "dialed" than a professional baseball player has their swing perfected. I'm sure lots of baseball players would agree with your last statement that after weighted training their movements feel significantly easier and they feel stronger and faster. However, the study shows that that is not actually the case. You've missed the point completely, and you're also a spraylord. Ok now here's what I just said in language you can understand (anecdotes and spray, lack of any scientific or logical basis): cool, it works, if you do it you'll agree, if your woman friend does it she'll agree. My significant deductive skills tell me that if it works so well that it's obvious, it's true! If I had you do it 2 a week for the next month and as a result, you could redpoint/onsight harder than you have before, would you think it works? Would you say to yourself, well, I better go look this up and find evidence as to whether it works or not? I don't need to look it up. I know three people who have done it and they all saw dramatic results not only in being able to climb higher grades and onsight higher grades but there fingers hurt less too. My brother played college baseball... I was a little league all star pitcher. Having a perfect swing is baseball is not comparable to how much difference it makes if you bicycle or toe hook that stalagtite, or if you back flag or back step the little toe scum.... or whether or not you grab the hold tomahawk or you wrap it. While it may make it slightly easier to do an individual move if you used a drop knee instead of a back step... in degree and significance when compared to a baseball swing... they are way off. If your swing is off by 5% its the difference between success or failure... if the amount of energy you expend with perfect technique versus decent technique doing a climbing move is off by 5% you could easily make up for the by being stronger or pushing yourself harder. Like I said, call me whatever you want...... if you do it..... you will agree. This isn't theory for me.... I"VE DONE IT and it works. But if you want to keep going back and forth about things I've tried that you'd like to discredit even though you aren't willing to test it yourself... we can do that too. I need breaks at work. perhaps if you cheesetitted some more quotes your point would be more clear
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onceahardman
Apr 6, 2011, 10:06 PM
Post #52 of 56
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aerili wrote: His example of running with a sprint parachute is weighted training, so it does fall into the category of training being discussed. Actually, research has found that both over-weighting and under-weighting sports equipment can produce gains in performance greater than that of standard training, but only (that I know of) when the weight added or subtracted is VERY SMALL. I think the research emerging for using weighted baseballs in this manner is aggregating. Other research has found such added weight to reduce performance. So there is no completely clear consensus yet, especially for most sports outside baseball. Therefore, this has virtually no bearing on rock climbing with added weight. I do have a friend who is a 12/13 sport climber and he regularly trains with a weighted vest on a home wall (up to 20 lb I think). He believes it has allowed him to break into 13s. Who can say 'for sure'? I still feel that any additional weight should be added only during non-skill training (hangboard, campusing, etc) and with great caution to how much intensity and frequency one would use such methods. Certainly ankle weights are a TERRIBLE idea for climbers. It doesn't matter how long you have been climbing, adding artificial weight to your feet of all places is downright stupid.
I've been thinking a bit more about this, from a purely theoretical perspective, presently unsupported by any research.
When someone is sprinting, the goal is to move the body forward, not upward. Therefore, running with a parachute will provide resistance in the desired direction. Running with a weighted vest will just provide the need to move that weight upward, overcoming the downward vector of gravity acting upon the weighted vest. The extra effort is wasted.
Now, it might make sense for a high jumper to train with added weight. Or a basketball player concerned with increasing his or her leaping power.
Also, it might make sense (subject to further research) for an advanced climber to use weight as an adjunct to normal movement training.
I say that with trepidation, though. So many beginning climbers think that strength is the limiting factor for them, when it is not.
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Gmburns2000
Apr 8, 2011, 1:34 AM
Post #53 of 56
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jammer wrote: AamClimber wrote: I've been wondering for a while if wearing ankle weights while rock climbing is helpful in improving your climb or is it just more trouble than its worth. =) Thanks. If you have the gear, climb sport with a full trad rack. This will help you when you climb trad as much as it will help you with technique, learning how to maneuver all that gear out of your way while going from one move to the next.
why not just go trad climbing then?
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jammer
Apr 8, 2011, 5:02 AM
Post #54 of 56
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Registered: Jun 25, 2002
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Gmburns2000 wrote: jammer wrote: AamClimber wrote: I've been wondering for a while if wearing ankle weights while rock climbing is helpful in improving your climb or is it just more trouble than its worth. =) Thanks. If you have the gear, climb sport with a full trad rack. This will help you when you climb trad as much as it will help you with technique, learning how to maneuver all that gear out of your way while going from one move to the next. why not just go trad climbing then?
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Gmburns2000
Apr 8, 2011, 12:08 PM
Post #55 of 56
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jammer wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: jammer wrote: AamClimber wrote: I've been wondering for a while if wearing ankle weights while rock climbing is helpful in improving your climb or is it just more trouble than its worth. =) Thanks. If you have the gear, climb sport with a full trad rack. This will help you when you climb trad as much as it will help you with technique, learning how to maneuver all that gear out of your way while going from one move to the next. why not just go trad climbing then? Because the OP is asking about the gym and weights. One would think if they own trad gear, the trad climb, unless they just like to play with shiny new toys.
sorry, I didn't get that he was asking specifically about climbing in the gym in other parts of the thread. In that case, sure, it isn't a bad idea per se, though even to train I'd never want to bring my rack to the gym (I'd find better things to do, but I suppose that's what this conversation is about really).
But since he didn't say anything about the gym in the OP, I'm going to say that actually trad climbing may be better than sport climbing with trad gear. Merely climbing with weight does little help with those moments when you need to hold on to find that piece that goes in that slot, etc. (let's face it, clipping a bolt is nothing compared to slotting a tricky nut).
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jammer
Apr 8, 2011, 4:41 PM
Post #56 of 56
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Registered: Jun 25, 2002
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Gmburns2000 wrote: jammer wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: jammer wrote: AamClimber wrote: I've been wondering for a while if wearing ankle weights while rock climbing is helpful in improving your climb or is it just more trouble than its worth. =) Thanks. If you have the gear, climb sport with a full trad rack. This will help you when you climb trad as much as it will help you with technique, learning how to maneuver all that gear out of your way while going from one move to the next. why not just go trad climbing then? Because the OP is asking about the gym and weights. One would think if they own trad gear, the trad climb, unless they just like to play with shiny new toys. sorry, I didn't get that he was asking specifically about climbing in the gym in other parts of the thread. In that case, sure, it isn't a bad idea per se, though even to train I'd never want to bring my rack to the gym (I'd find better things to do, but I suppose that's what this conversation is about really).
In reply to: But since he didn't say anything about the gym in the OP, I'm going to say that actually trad climbing may be better than sport climbing with trad gear. Merely climbing with weight does little help with those moments when you need to hold on to find that piece that goes in that slot, etc. (let's face it, clipping a bolt is nothing compared to slotting a tricky nut).
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