|
curt
Feb 23, 2004, 2:20 AM
Post #51 of 84
(7358 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 27, 2002
Posts: 18275
|
In reply to: *5.11 is a beginner level?* In sport climbing it is. 5.0-5.12b...Beginner. The crux moves on 12b's are like v2 or 3, which I've seen beginning boulderers pull on literally Day 1. 5.12c-13b...Intermediate, usually v3 to v6 cruxes 13b and up...Expert, usually v6 and up cruxes
Really? What sport routes have V10 cruxes?
Curt
|
|
|
|
|
alpnclmbr1
Feb 23, 2004, 2:34 AM
Post #52 of 84
(7358 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 10, 2002
Posts: 3060
|
For a climber: (sport/boulder/trad combined)
Beginner: 5.6 to 5.8
Intermediate: 10-
Advanced: 10+ (most 13 sport climbers hope they fit into this category)
Expert: 11
Elite: 5.12, Huber's
|
|
|
|
|
ipsofacto
Feb 23, 2004, 2:52 AM
Post #53 of 84
(7358 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 7, 2003
Posts: 482
|
23456789
|
|
|
|
|
kalcario
Feb 23, 2004, 2:52 AM
Post #54 of 84
(7358 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 25, 2002
Posts: 1601
|
*Really? What sport routes have V10 cruxes?*
Lemme think...Realization is v11 just to pull off the ground...Supertweak 14b at Logan Cyn, v9...Frogtown 13d at the VRG is v8/9...I could probably come up with a few more if I thought about it...oh yeah I think Jason said Nec. Evil was v11...help me out here guys...
check this out
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.html?id=1109
I've stood on that pile of cheatstones and pawed around and I'm pretty tall, and there's nothing I can even imagine pulling on
|
|
|
|
|
ptone
Feb 23, 2004, 3:00 AM
Post #55 of 84
(7358 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 5, 2003
Posts: 350
|
I've only tried 5.12 on tr, but I'll shyly toss in my 2 cents...
I remember leading my first 5.10s, and thinking it was all about getting stronger--but once I'd climbed the same ones a couple times, it got easy faster than I could've got strong. Thing was, I'd dialed the moves, bettered my technique, and there it was.
Now at 5.12 it feels like that again. I know pound for pound technique'll take you miles further than strength, so I'm trying to think more.
Bouldering really helped me improve on routes, helped me learn to figure out cruxes and techniques for dicey off-center or long moves.
A few mentioned it before, but I think the biggest thing is my head. On 12 I'm trying moves that are alot more exacting, both balance wise and strength wise. That sense of fall potential in my belly suddenly widens its eyes and sucks in a breath...
Pure fear or lack of faith kills me before I even know if I can pull the move.
Bouldering helps me see I can nail those moves, plain old mileage helps me get used to the view below.
Slowly I plug away, getting better as it happens. The reason for going harder is to keep that excitement, sense of newness. I want to keep on feeling like I'm on the edge....I don't care whether anyone is better or worse than me (actually--I like it when people are better, like to watch them climb!)
Oh--here is a link for those rating conversions--I think V10 is supposed to be about 14a or so...
http://www.bouldering.com/bouldering_ratingsconversion_cha.htm
peace
-p
|
|
|
|
|
kalcario
Feb 23, 2004, 3:04 AM
Post #56 of 84
(7358 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 25, 2002
Posts: 1601
|
*Oh--here is a link for those rating conversions--I think V10 is supposed to be about 14a or so...*
Correct. 14a's usually have v9-10 moves, 13a v5-6, 12a v1-2, etc
|
|
|
|
|
ipsofacto
Feb 23, 2004, 3:05 AM
Post #57 of 84
(7358 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 7, 2003
Posts: 482
|
23456789
|
|
|
|
|
okinawatricam
Feb 23, 2004, 3:29 AM
Post #58 of 84
(7358 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 23, 2003
Posts: 420
|
Maybe some people are confusing climbing 5.12 with being a 5.12 climber.
I agree, anyone with some climbing ability can climb A 512 or two if they work the routes. But can they climb 5.12 consistently acroos the board. How often are they onsighting them.
In climbing, like other sport, the gap between good climbers, and elite climber is and will continue to broaden. Of course, newer genration to the sport will come with higher expection of what is possible, which will push the standarts foward more.
|
|
|
|
|
mreardon
Feb 23, 2004, 3:31 AM
Post #59 of 84
(7358 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 17, 2002
Posts: 1337
|
In reply to: Sorry, folks, I didn't mean to trample on anyone's toes by making such brash statements, but yes, I think that 5.12 is well within the means of climbers with modest abilities. All of the people that I climbed with last summer went from 5.10 to 5.12 in a matter of months. One fellow in particular started the season at 5.11- and finished the season establishing the a first ascent on a 5.12c! We were always climbing at the limits of our abilities, and only left the crag at the end of the day when just walking became a chore. What made the difference? They just got on a 12 and worked it. The first one took some effort, the second less than the first, the third less than the second, and on and on...
5.12 for modest climbers? Guess the Hubers are merely modest then. Me thinks you need to get outside more often. You need to meet more climbers, or get on better rated climbs than that soft stuff. Let's see a beginner get on some of the sport climbs of those ratings at Joshua Tree. :D I'm not even sandbagging, I'm actually serious.
KALCARIO - sure some sport problems are based on a V-blah crux, but not everyone climbs at Red Rocks. :D
|
|
|
|
|
fish
Feb 23, 2004, 3:52 AM
Post #60 of 84
(7358 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 14, 2002
Posts: 31
|
Well when you climb V10... 5.12 is easy.
|
|
|
|
|
smellyhippie
Feb 23, 2004, 4:03 AM
Post #61 of 84
(7358 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 11, 2003
Posts: 155
|
Ugg.
Some people need their ego fed non-stop.
Nate
|
|
|
|
|
kalcario
Feb 23, 2004, 4:25 AM
Post #62 of 84
(7358 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 25, 2002
Posts: 1601
|
*Let's see a beginner get on some of the sport climbs of those ratings at Joshua Tree. I'm not even sandbagging, I'm actually serious.*
Everything at Josh is sandbagged...but then, since the crags resemble sand dunes in both texture and angle, this seems appropo...just from experience, though, the crack climbs at Josh feel easier than their similarly graded counterparts in the Valley, mainly I suppose because they're usually over before you'd place your second piece in Yosemite...
|
|
|
|
|
curt
Feb 23, 2004, 4:33 AM
Post #63 of 84
(7358 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 27, 2002
Posts: 18275
|
In reply to: *Let's see a beginner get on some of the sport climbs of those ratings at Joshua Tree. I'm not even sandbagging, I'm actually serious.* Everything at Josh is sandbagged...but then, since the crags resemble sand dunes in both texture and angle, this seems appropo...just from experience, though, the crack climbs at Josh feel easier than their similarly graded counterparts in the Valley, mainly I suppose because they're usually over before you'd place your second piece in Yosemite...
Really? I'd say the opposite. In my experience the ratings at Josh and The Gunks for that matter are a bit stiffer than Yosemite.
Curt
|
|
|
|
|
alpnclmbr1
Feb 23, 2004, 4:47 AM
Post #64 of 84
(7358 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 10, 2002
Posts: 3060
|
In reply to: Really? I'd say the opposite. In my experience the ratings at Josh and The Gunks for that matter are a bit stiffer than Yosemite. Curt
Ditto on that
Tahquitz is somewhere in between. I always figured they sandbagged the numbers a little to help compensate for the shorter routes and simpler routefinding.
|
|
|
|
|
kalcario
Feb 23, 2004, 4:50 AM
Post #65 of 84
(7358 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 25, 2002
Posts: 1601
|
Can't speak for the Gunks, although I remember one thread awhile back that said Survival of the Fittest, given 13a, would be 12c anyplace else, but Josh seems to suffer from the typical sandbag scenario where the locals undergrade the routes they can do and overgrade the ones they can't...and I'm assuming from this that you guys have'nt climbed in the Valley much, correct?
|
|
|
|
|
climb_plastic
Feb 23, 2004, 6:13 AM
Post #66 of 84
(7358 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 24, 2003
Posts: 706
|
In reply to: I hope I don't offend anyone by saying this, but I think the grades can be broken done like so: 5.10 Novice Level 5.11 Beginning level 5.12 Intermediate Level 5.13 Advanced Level 5.14 Expert Level
This sounds about right if you're talking about the maximum grade you've ever climbed clean.
|
|
|
|
|
curt
Feb 23, 2004, 6:19 AM
Post #67 of 84
(7358 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 27, 2002
Posts: 18275
|
In reply to: Can't speak for the Gunks, although I remember one thread awhile back that said Survival of the Fittest, given 13a, would be 12c anyplace else, but Josh seems to suffer from the typical sandbag scenario where the locals undergrade the routes they can do and overgrade the ones they can't...and I'm assuming from this that you guys have'nt climbed in the Valley much, correct?
I'm sure you can't speak for the Gunks. You would actually have to climb there, instead of clipping bolts. Of course, I've only done 250 routes there or so, through 5.12.
Curt
|
|
|
|
|
kalcario
Feb 23, 2004, 6:24 AM
Post #68 of 84
(7358 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 25, 2002
Posts: 1601
|
*I'm sure you can't speak for the Gunks. You would actually have to climb there, instead of clipping bolts. Of course, I've only done 250 routes there or so, through 5.12. *
So from this I gather you have about as much experience in Yosemite, which you are speaking for, as I do in the Gunks?
|
|
|
|
|
curt
Feb 23, 2004, 6:28 AM
Post #69 of 84
(7358 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 27, 2002
Posts: 18275
|
In reply to: *I'm sure you can't speak for the Gunks. You would actually have to climb there, instead of clipping bolts. Of course, I've only done 250 routes there or so, through 5.12. * So from this I gather you have about as much experience in Yosemite, which you are speaking for, as I do in the Gunks?
If you include Toulumne, then yes I have as much experience in Yosemite as I have in the Gunks. If you mean the valley proper, then--no, I haven't done as many routes in Yosemite as I have in the Gunks.
Curt
|
|
|
|
|
kalcario
Feb 23, 2004, 6:34 AM
Post #70 of 84
(7358 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 25, 2002
Posts: 1601
|
*If you include Toulumne, then yes I have as much experience in Yosemite as I have in the Gunks. If you mean the valley proper, then--no, I haven't done as many routes in Yosemite as I have in the Gunks*
So your main experience in Yosemite, the trad mecca of the planet, consists of clipping bolts. On low angle slabs. Interesting.
|
|
|
|
|
curt
Feb 23, 2004, 6:42 AM
Post #71 of 84
(7358 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 27, 2002
Posts: 18275
|
In reply to: *If you include Toulumne, then yes I have as much experience in Yosemite as I have in the Gunks. If you mean the valley proper, then--no, I haven't done as many routes in Yosemite as I have in the Gunks* So your main experience in Yosemite, the trad mecca of the planet, consists of clipping bolts. On low angle slabs. Interesting.
Yosemite is hardly the trad mecca of the planet. Why don't you sack up and visit the Gunks? Because you will whimper and fail miserably there?--probably.
Curt
|
|
|
|
|
okinawatricam
Feb 23, 2004, 6:49 AM
Post #72 of 84
(7358 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 23, 2003
Posts: 420
|
I spent a couple of weeks at the gunks last summer. I didn't find the grades to be so "sandbaged."
Unlike many trad climbing areas, the gunks requires face climbing skills and the ability to pull roofs. Beyond that, no diference.
Jtree/Yosemite seem pretty close in grades to me too. Jtree's rock is slightly more painful, but good crack climbing technic will get you thru.
I have never climbed Taquitz, but I look foward to it.
|
|
|
|
|
kalcario
Feb 23, 2004, 6:56 AM
Post #73 of 84
(7358 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 25, 2002
Posts: 1601
|
*Yosemite is hardly the trad mecca of the planet. Why don't you sack up and visit the Gunks? Because you will whimper and fail miserably there?--probably.*
If the Gunks are so hairball, how come all you could do in Yosemite was clip bolts? Not exactly what your rhetoric prepared me to hear, you gotta admit...this is like hearing that Rush was on hillbilly heroin half the time...any other revelations you wanna spring on us while we're still in shock? The combover's a toupee? Mother's maiden name was Schickelgruber?
|
|
|
|
|
curt
Feb 23, 2004, 7:10 AM
Post #74 of 84
(7358 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 27, 2002
Posts: 18275
|
In reply to: *Yosemite is hardly the trad mecca of the planet. Why don't you sack up and visit the Gunks? Because you will whimper and fail miserably there?--probably.* If the Gunks are so hairball, how come all you could do in Yosemite was clip bolts? Not exactly what your rhetoric prepared me to hear, you gotta admit...this is like hearing that Rush was on hillbilly heroin half the time...any other revelations you wanna spring on us while we're still in shock?
Curt
|
|
|
|
|
kalcario
Feb 23, 2004, 7:19 AM
Post #75 of 84
(7358 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 25, 2002
Posts: 1601
|
Uh, I don't know about that, you'd have to ask them...actually I spent hardly any time in Josh, a few months at most, never really got into it...and let's not stoop to name calling here, just having a little fun with you, you did set yourself up pretty good there...have you done the B-Y by the way?
|
|
|
|
|
|
