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curt
Jan 29, 2004, 1:19 AM
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In reply to: Hey Alan W. if you are out there. Glad to hear you doing well and sorry about the "wanker" remark. Bob D.
Yeah Alan, I'm sorry I called you an asshole too. Oh well, that's the nature of anonymous internet BB posting. :lol:
Curt
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bobd1953
Jan 29, 2004, 1:29 AM
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In reply to: Ah, but Chouinard and Frost saw the error of their ways, and tried to set things right. Their early-70s catalogs, and the gear they sold, were basic parts of the clean-climbing revolution.
So why did he (Chouinard) keep on selling pitons, rurp and bashies well into the late 80's when he sold to investors?
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deleted
Deleted
Jan 29, 2004, 1:29 AM
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REMEMBER WARREN HARDING YOU MOFO'S!
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curt
Jan 29, 2004, 1:35 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Ah, but Chouinard and Frost saw the error of their ways, and tried to set things right. Their early-70s catalogs, and the gear they sold, were basic parts of the clean-climbing revolution. So why did he (Chouinard) keep on selling pitons, rurp and bashies well into the late 80's when he sold to investors?
Because there was a market for them. Damn those aid climbers. Haha.
Curt
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Jan 29, 2004, 1:37 AM
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and by that i mean that every man (or woman) is free to define what climbing means to them. if you get off on rap-bolting stuff, that's your perogotive...just be ready for those who are agreeably more courageous, insightful, and overall better climbers, who can walk up to your route, chop the unnecessary bolts, send it on lead, and create a better example for the climbing community to follow. less reliance on gear, and especially bolts, is a better paradigm of what the human being is capable of doing...this has been understood since the beginning, and is constantly interpreted in each individual's own seperate, often conflicting way.
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kalcario
Jan 29, 2004, 1:45 AM
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I climbed lots of trad 5.12's in California in the 80's. After dabbling in wall climbing, which when I started climbing was what I thought I wanted to do, I found my forte: steep, long cracks that required endurance. When sport climbing first came along I was dead set against it. But pretty soon most of us realized that free climbing ability had outpaced the ability to protect it from the ground up (hook bolting being rejected by the elite as aid climbing, plus it tended to break the holds off...) and that sport climbing was the logical extension of what we'd always been doing.
Actually I regard the main impact of the sport climbing revolution not so much in terms of bolting and protection but rather in the new types of rock available, and especially the new emphasis on overhanging rock which effectively rendered slab climbing into a joke, kinda like Nirvana killed hair metal or Dr Dre killed MC Hammer.
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climbsomething
Jan 29, 2004, 2:04 AM
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In reply to: Nice Job, Dingus, you beat me to the post about who started the pre inspection and pre placing. Paradise Froks is another area where gear was preplace and routes pre inspected, not bolt anywhere near that place. |
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bobd1953
Jan 29, 2004, 2:13 AM
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In reply to: Yeah Alan, I'm sorry I called you an asshole too. Oh well, that's the nature of anonymous internet BB posting.
Curt, must have been that last glass of Merlot, or was that the last bottle?
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curt
Jan 29, 2004, 2:18 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Yeah Alan, I'm sorry I called you an asshole too. Oh well, that's the nature of anonymous internet BB posting. Curt, must have been that last glass of Merlot, or was that the last bottle?
Bob,
Well, what the hell, neither you or I knew who in the world we were talking to. At least I called Chris Jones today and asked him to apologize for me in person--on my behalf. And he said he would. :wink:
Curt
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okinawatricam
Jan 29, 2004, 2:41 AM
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It sure seems strange that someone can be an A...hole when he states his opinion, but after he gives his name, people excuse themselves for saying it. I guess that is status makes his opinion alright, but the same opinion from someone less known sucks and make him.....
on another hand, I agree, sport routes have open a whole new range of climbing terain.
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alderak
Jan 29, 2004, 3:35 AM
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Thing is... climbing is individual and its not like we are all competing against one another... ideally we are only competing against ourselves and perhaps the rock.. How can someone your not playing with be cheating? Thats like saying someone eating a milkshake with a spoon is cheating... what do you care?
The only real issue I see here is the rock... places with few crags and lots of people are the obvious problem areas... I'm blessed and happen to live in an area with tons of climbing... and we have sport, ice, trad, etc... all within an hour... and plenty of it... so I have a hard time understanding...
When I first began to climb I wished everything was bolted... I mean, can't the trad climbers climb it their way and just ignore the bolts? Yeah... I see that is rediculous now... But isn't there enough rock out there that we can have a little of everything? If every climbing area were set up the same way, I'd get bored... Trad areas for trad climbing, nice sport areas with long climbs, maybe even a climb or two that is either "over bolted", or "under bolted"... but not all over bolted or under bolted... they both have value to different people and different situations...
I guess what I am saying is that the only way sport climbers *really* effect trad climbers is when they bolt things... and its true, we don't have limitless crags... it is within the ability of humanity to bolt the entire world... and I think that would be a travesty... thing is though... nobody owns the mountains and can say whether it goes all one way or another, so things are just going to moderate themselves... we will have some trad areas, and some sport areas... and tradable climbs will get bolted... sorry. Sport has become a branch of climbing itself, offering reletive safety and reduced cost.
Bolted routes are not just a way to climb things that can't be protected trad...
oh well, I'm lost... maybe there is something in there worth reading...
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curt
Jan 29, 2004, 3:51 AM
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In reply to: It sure seems strange that someone can be an A...hole when he states his opinion, but after he gives his name, people excuse themselves for saying it. I guess that is status makes his opinion alright, but the same opinion from someone less known sucks and make him.....
Curt
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roughster
Jan 29, 2004, 3:55 AM
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This new thread offered the hope of leaving the personal issues behind. So far the discussion has been great and on topic. Hopefully we can keep it that way and not get drawn into petty bickering and name calling.
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okinawatricam
Jan 29, 2004, 3:58 AM
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Nothing worse than those of us who have done nothing. :(
Don't worry I don't take that as a personal attack roughster , I am just a namless nobody online.
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deafears
Jan 29, 2004, 4:14 AM
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I'll try this in an attempt to nudge the discussion in a more interesting direction.
Curt and others have refered to the Golden Age of climbing in the past, which in this country is held to be the Yosemite-based free-climbing revolution.
Ironically, the hot-shot youngesters of the day, Robbins, Coon-yard, Pratt, et al. were dismissed by the old guard as being overly concerned with rock gymnastics and avoiding the "real risk" of the mountains by concentrating on mere rock faces. The AAJ even refused to publish many early Yos ascents because no "true summits" were involved.
Now big walls and alpine routes (with or without a summit) are considered the real-deal objective by the old-school, while short trad routes are seen as a worthy subsidiary goal. But sport routes are often dismissed as "just practice." Bouldering is the new whipping child as a non-noteworthy style (despite the fact that physical accomplishments made by boulderers are just as much an advance for the sport as any from the Golden Age).
For the next generation, will one-pitch routes be considered long? Will bouldering be widely hailed as a legitimate and commiting style? And, will the new frontier become one-move traverses (at an yet unguessed level of physical difficulty?) = minimum risk, maximum skill?
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andy_lemon
Jan 29, 2004, 4:15 AM
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In reply to: You continue to be one of the more obtuse posters on this site. Yes, in real life (and not on some goddam internet site) there is indeed a mutual respect among those of us who have actually accomplished something in our climbing careers--whether we always agree with one another or not. Curt
Curt... Okinawatricam has about 60 first accent routes at areas I climb regularly. Those are just the ones I know about. They range from sport and trad, 5.5 to 5.12. I am thankful that this guy was in my area because he developed some of the best areas and some of the best lines. I have a few pictures of some of his routes on the site. Alot of people that climb in the Southeast do indeed know a guy that goes by the name of Eman.
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bobd1953
Jan 29, 2004, 4:17 AM
Post #67 of 99
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In reply to: You continue to be one of the more obtuse posters on this site. Yes, in real life (and not on some goddam internet site) there is indeed a mutual respect among those of us who have actually accomplished something in our climbing careers--whether we always agree with one another or not.
I agree!
I may not agree with Curt thinking (limted as it is) :roll: but I still have a respect for the things that he has done in the climbing world.
I also think there are a number of wanna-be's on this site who talk a good game but fall flat when the game clock starts.
That my opinion.
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okinawatricam
Jan 29, 2004, 4:34 AM
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I think that the trend of bouldering today will result in harder routes going up in the other forms and style of climbing. The capability of doing those hard moves near the ground will help spur confidence on the higher faces around the world.
Take for example the speed accent accent tactics of Yosemite big walls. Like the early accents, which require new skills and new technics, the speed accent have help develop new standards in the remote regions of the world: Patagonia and Baflin.
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climbsomething
Jan 29, 2004, 4:35 AM
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In reply to: I also think there are a number of wanna-be's on this site who talk a good game but fall flat when the game clock starts.
Oh my god, I know I didn't name names, but I almost sounded like Curt there! I have climbed extensively with... Curt, save me from myself!!!! :shock:
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fracture
Jan 29, 2004, 4:37 AM
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In reply to: Oh my god, I know I didn't name names, but I almost sounded like Curt there! I have climbed extensively with... Curt, save me from myself!!!! :shock:
But was it ethically-inferior sport climbing? :lol:
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okinawatricam
Jan 29, 2004, 4:44 AM
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Reading his posts, I would say Curt is a great person to climb with. I have to agree thought, that not evryoneone who post here is what they claim to be.
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curt
Jan 29, 2004, 4:53 AM
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In reply to: Reading his post, I would say Curt is a great person to climb with. I have to agree thought, that not evryoneone who post here is what they claim to be.
Hey, I'll climb with you anytime too. All of these Sport vs. Trad arguments should properly be interpreted as comments against the opposing philosophy, not the person.
Curt
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deafears
Jan 29, 2004, 4:54 AM
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Ethically inferior sport climbing?
Or ethically inferior big walling?
Or ethically inferior alpine climbing?
For more gems from arm-chair climbers who love debating ethics and seldom if ever climb anything at their limit ... stay tuned to this channel.
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curt
Jan 29, 2004, 4:57 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Oh my god, I know I didn't name names, but I almost sounded like Curt there! I have climbed extensively with... Curt, save me from myself!!!! :shock: But was it ethically-inferior sport climbing? :lol:
Oh geez, now I have to fess up. Yes, yes I have sport climbed with climbsomething--are you happy now? But, I also got her involved in bouldering. Quid pro quo, eh?
Curt
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fracture
Jan 29, 2004, 4:57 AM
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In reply to: Ethically inferior sport climbing? ...
Pst. You missed the joke.
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