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fracture
Jul 20, 2007, 2:25 AM
Post #76 of 87
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j_ung wrote: The rumor is that I sell FAs for profit. Like all rumors, it has it's basis in fact.
Not all rumors!
In reply to: So actually, the truth is I did "sell" a first ascent, if by "sell," you mean raised money for the Carolina Climbers Coalition's purchase of, ironically, the tallest predominantly trad cliff in the eastern US.
Aw man.
If you had actually sold one for profit, you'd be my new hero, Jay. I can't really think of a better way to make fun of how silly the "first" game is when you apply it to sport redpoints. (All the "glory" (read: the naming-rights and thanks) of a sport "FA" should go to the route developer(s). The RD did the hard work and community service. Who redpoints it first is an accident of history.)
(This post was edited by fracture on Jul 20, 2007, 2:50 AM)
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verbomatic
Jul 20, 2007, 3:22 AM
Post #77 of 87
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Is it not obvious to you?
People don't generally entrust their lives to gi-joes bonded to rocks. It is reasonable to assume, however, that a good-looking bolt can be trusted to catch a fall. I'm not a lawyer, but I'm sure there are a number of laws broken by placing fake bolts.
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neoamhas
Jul 20, 2007, 12:26 PM
Post #78 of 87
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once again,..no clue what you're talking about. . you perfectly illustrated my point. you are speaking on subjects where you have no knowledge.
(This post was edited by neoamhas on Jul 20, 2007, 12:50 PM)
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neoamhas
Jul 20, 2007, 12:39 PM
Post #79 of 87
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when people in our community have been politely asked to refrain from dragging our home into their internet ego masturbation practice, and yet, persist............violence becomes an option.
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climbinwv
Jul 20, 2007, 12:54 PM
Post #80 of 87
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Registered: May 18, 2007
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Bler,
Maybe before you try and flame someone you should do a little background check on who they are. Then look at your own profile and what a giant douch you come off as. J_ung did more for climbing last night in his sleep then you will in your entire life. Tard.
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j_ung
Jul 20, 2007, 3:58 PM
Post #81 of 87
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climbinwv wrote: Bler, Maybe before you try and flame someone you should do a little background check on who they are. Then look at your own profile and what a giant douch you come off as. J_ung did more for climbing last night in his sleep then you will in your entire life. Tard.
You know, I think I probably erased a lot good I've done by starting this thread.
The two guys who did this are good guys who made a mistake. They aren't villains or malicious people. They just fucked up... like I've done. My hope, in posting this thread, was to convince people to talk out their differences like mature adults. That hasn't been the result, and I think I've learned a pretty important lesson from all of this.
Signing off.
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fracture
Jul 20, 2007, 4:29 PM
Post #82 of 87
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neoamhas wrote: when people in our community have been politely asked to refrain from dragging our home into their internet ego masturbation practice, and yet, persist............violence becomes an option.
It may technically qualify as an option, but I think it is not a very rational or good one.
I really don't know how serious you are about that, and I am sure that everyone on any side of this (however many sides there are) has plenty of reason to be pissed off and feels plenty justified about being angry. A crag almost got closed: everyone has a right to be angry.
A lot of people posting in this thread should probably think a little more about the fact that your friends turned themselves in (they "fucked up and then fixed their mistake", and reread Jay's emphasis on this on page one). Everyone could really relax a bit with the uninformed mouth-foaming about crimes or jail-time. But I also think that you need to relax on the threats and try to be more constructive yourself: your current approach is unlikely to help anyone and it could make things worse.
I totally agree with j_ung's stated purpose here, but it seems (from where I'm sitting, with my minimal information) like this thread could currently do the opposite. Everyone should be able to agree on one very simple thing: an internet lynching mob is not going to help anything become more constructive, here or anywhere.
(This post was edited by fracture on Jul 20, 2007, 5:22 PM)
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dingus
Jul 20, 2007, 4:34 PM
Post #83 of 87
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fracture wrote: and trying to be more constructive yourself: your current approach is unlikely to help anyone and it could make things worse.
LOL. Coming from you this is really funny.
DMT
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fracture
Jul 20, 2007, 4:42 PM
Post #84 of 87
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j_ung wrote: That hasn't been the result, and I think I've learned a pretty important lesson from all of this.
I think I understood what you were going for, Jay. Curator's initial post was trying to keep people on that too. Your OP did seem to me to emphasize only one side of the problem here, which is probably why a lot of the responses you got were the way they were, but you also said just a few posts later after the initial responses:
j_ung wrote: I want to reiterate that the guilty parties did turn themselves in and they are facing the music. IMO, the major lesson to be learned here is that a mature approach to climbing issues may not solve problems, but an immature approach definitely will not.
This is still the important lesson here.
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dingus
Jul 20, 2007, 4:55 PM
Post #85 of 87
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Hahaha I KNEW he couldn't take a helping of his own medicine.
DMT
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bent_gate
Jul 20, 2007, 6:27 PM
Post #86 of 87
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j_ung wrote: climbinwv wrote: Bler, Maybe before you try and flame someone you should do a little background check on who they are. Then look at your own profile and what a giant douch you come off as. J_ung did more for climbing last night in his sleep then you will in your entire life. Tard. You know, I think I probably erased a lot good I've done by starting this thread. The two guys who did this are good guys who made a mistake. They aren't villains or malicious people. They just fucked up... like I've done. My hope, in posting this thread, was to convince people to talk out their differences like mature adults. That hasn't been the result, and I think I've learned a pretty important lesson from all of this. Signing off.
Jay,
I disagree. Your initiation and further contributions to this thread have been nothing but constructive. You have been very factual, mature, and constructive. You've never portrayed the pranksters as villians, or malicious. I say kudos to you and thanks for helping to keep things at the gorge as good as they are.
Because others choose not to follow this lead, is not your fault.
In reply to: j_ung wrote: Another week later, I and the guy who FA-ed the chimney met up, went climbing, talked the situation over like adults and I removed every bolt myself and patched the holes. bler wrote: you bolt, then remove the bolts because you realized it was not needed in the first place? what a f'ing waste of time, money and damaging the rock. you get no respect.... j_ung wrote: I fucked up and then fixed my mistake. End of story. bler wrote: you didn't realize there was a protectable line just next to it? yah, you made a mistake, but this sounds recent, & you seem to be an experienced climber that should not make those type of mistakes? maybe not though.. j_ung wrote: bler, you appear to be under the impression that I'm defending it. Again, I fucked up. To remain consistent with local ethics, I fixed my mistake.
Bler, after the first time someone cedes a point, be gracious enough to accept it and move on.
bler wrote: (snip) ...nothing hurtful intended, my apology if I insulted you.
OK, you corrected it. I cede the point.
neoamhas wrote: (snip) i consider these guys friends, people who slander my friends get hurt. i look forward to meeting some of you and visiting those of you i know. " i'm essentially a pacificist, but ever once in a while people need a quick shot to the mouth" ed.
<neoamhas>, You're more intelligent than that.
neoamhas wrote: when people in our community have been politely asked to refrain from dragging our home into their internet ego masturbation practice, and yet, persist............violence becomes an option.
So you're going to sucker punch someone who disagrees with you and makes you mad. And where is the courage and valor in that?
This country exists because of those who couldn't be bullied out of their right to voice their opinion. I bet you would like, admire, and respect them.
I do. And bullying isn't something I tolerate. Ever.
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neoamhas
Jul 21, 2007, 3:53 AM
Post #87 of 87
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Registered: May 14, 2004
Posts: 38
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sucker punching isn't something i do. Ever. straight up spider monkey tactics to the face. that's how i roll.
on a serious note: i would crack a beer and punch a pitch with just about anyone, it's what i love. my home is the backwoods of West Virginia, and i'm tired of this quiet enclave of cool ass people being tainted by rumors and internet posturing. i hold no ill will towards the actual persons behind these web-masks of self-importance, i just want it all to stop. The "New" is gorge-ous and 99% of the folks here are amazing,..a family i would fight for, and that was my point. this buisness is ours to handle. not the park service and definitely not an internet forum. as a man i respect said " it's just climbing".
come to the NRG and locals will open their homes, hearts and beer coolers to any newcomers. that is how we do it. the event that happened was an in-house family affair, and now it is done, unfortunately it got aired on rc.com tv for all to see. every family has it's squabbles, do not judge us based on this overblown, over-analyzed joke. it may actually bring about it's intent?,....an end to the one spot of drama that has plagued this eden of recreation for far to long.
77 degrees and sunny in the gorge tommorow. i hope everyone gets out, away from their computers and fires off a couple of rock climbs with good friends. leave the ethical debates alone and remember why you have passion for this absurd lifestyle.
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