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caughtinside
Sep 10, 2010, 1:44 AM
Post #126 of 149
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TradEddie wrote: caughtinside wrote: Since when has it been ok to TR the first pitch of a multipitch that people regularly climb to the top? I don't know if I've ever seen that here. In my opinion, since always. As long as you get there first, and don't hog the route for too long. In the case of the OP, they got there first, they actually led the route, and were apparently not taking too long. If you have plans to lead a popular route on the weekend at the Gunks, get up a little earlier, 8am at the stairmaster will get you on just about anything. Don't go claiming that some imaginary ethic or guidebook says that just because you are leading you can claim a route people are already climbing. Better yet, climb weekdays, that's my plan tomorrow. Horse is dead, sorry. TE
Must be a gunks thing. Off the top of my head I can't think of a multipitch area out west where people TR the first pitch of a route that is regularly climbed to the top.
Seems like when you set out to do the route, you should do the route. Not just the first pitch. Seems like a noobie toproper thing to do.
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redlude97
Sep 10, 2010, 1:52 AM
Post #127 of 149
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caughtinside wrote: TradEddie wrote: caughtinside wrote: Since when has it been ok to TR the first pitch of a multipitch that people regularly climb to the top? I don't know if I've ever seen that here. In my opinion, since always. As long as you get there first, and don't hog the route for too long. In the case of the OP, they got there first, they actually led the route, and were apparently not taking too long. If you have plans to lead a popular route on the weekend at the Gunks, get up a little earlier, 8am at the stairmaster will get you on just about anything. Don't go claiming that some imaginary ethic or guidebook says that just because you are leading you can claim a route people are already climbing. Better yet, climb weekdays, that's my plan tomorrow. Horse is dead, sorry. TE Must be a gunks thing. Off the top of my head I can't think of a multipitch area out west where people TR the first pitch of a route that is regularly climbed to the top. Seems like when you set out to do the route, you should do the route. Not just the first pitch. Seems like a noobie toproper thing to do.
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jakedatc
Sep 10, 2010, 1:58 AM
Post #128 of 149
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caughtinside wrote: TradEddie wrote: caughtinside wrote: Since when has it been ok to TR the first pitch of a multipitch that people regularly climb to the top? I don't know if I've ever seen that here. In my opinion, since always. As long as you get there first, and don't hog the route for too long. In the case of the OP, they got there first, they actually led the route, and were apparently not taking too long. If you have plans to lead a popular route on the weekend at the Gunks, get up a little earlier, 8am at the stairmaster will get you on just about anything. Don't go claiming that some imaginary ethic or guidebook says that just because you are leading you can claim a route people are already climbing. Better yet, climb weekdays, that's my plan tomorrow. Horse is dead, sorry. TE Must be a gunks thing. Off the top of my head I can't think of a multipitch area out west where people TR the first pitch of a route that is regularly climbed to the top. Seems like when you set out to do the route, you should do the route. Not just the first pitch. Seems like a noobie toproper thing to do.
problem with Frogs Head is that it is a very long pitch if you do it in 1.. there is a bolted rap station at a nice ledge part way up so many many many people stop there and TR it from the ground
it's pretty much an very early or very late or midweek route.. There are plenty of .6 to do.. let the gumbies line up for Frogs head.
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caughtinside
Sep 10, 2010, 2:00 AM
Post #129 of 149
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redlude97 wrote: caughtinside wrote: TradEddie wrote: caughtinside wrote: Since when has it been ok to TR the first pitch of a multipitch that people regularly climb to the top? I don't know if I've ever seen that here. In my opinion, since always. As long as you get there first, and don't hog the route for too long. In the case of the OP, they got there first, they actually led the route, and were apparently not taking too long. If you have plans to lead a popular route on the weekend at the Gunks, get up a little earlier, 8am at the stairmaster will get you on just about anything. Don't go claiming that some imaginary ethic or guidebook says that just because you are leading you can claim a route people are already climbing. Better yet, climb weekdays, that's my plan tomorrow. Horse is dead, sorry. TE Must be a gunks thing. Off the top of my head I can't think of a multipitch area out west where people TR the first pitch of a route that is regularly climbed to the top. Seems like when you set out to do the route, you should do the route. Not just the first pitch. Seems like a noobie toproper thing to do. Godzilla at Index comes to mind. Most only lead/TR the first pitch since the second goes at 5.10+ish
Well, there are lots of routes that are multipitch where the first pitch (or maybe just first couple) are regularly done. Central pillar in the valley, people just do the first 5. Dark shadows in red rocks, people generally just do the first 4. A few adventurous souls will climb them to the top. But you don't show up to a climb like that with a group of noobs and toprope just the first pitch. Unless you're at Indian Creek.
Never been to index, so I don't know how much the second pitch of that climb you mentioned gets done.
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blueeyedclimber
Sep 10, 2010, 2:00 AM
Post #130 of 149
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caughtinside wrote: TradEddie wrote: caughtinside wrote: Since when has it been ok to TR the first pitch of a multipitch that people regularly climb to the top? I don't know if I've ever seen that here. In my opinion, since always. As long as you get there first, and don't hog the route for too long. In the case of the OP, they got there first, they actually led the route, and were apparently not taking too long. If you have plans to lead a popular route on the weekend at the Gunks, get up a little earlier, 8am at the stairmaster will get you on just about anything. Don't go claiming that some imaginary ethic or guidebook says that just because you are leading you can claim a route people are already climbing. Better yet, climb weekdays, that's my plan tomorrow. Horse is dead, sorry. TE Must be a gunks thing. Off the top of my head I can't think of a multipitch area out west where people TR the first pitch of a route that is regularly climbed to the top. Seems like when you set out to do the route, you should do the route. Not just the first pitch. Seems like a noobie toproper thing to do.
I don't think the original climb in question falls into this category, but there are MANY climbs at the Gunks where people usually only do the first pitch, whether it's because of Quality or difference in grade. You may have a spectacular 5.10d first pitch and then a chossy 5.6 pitch.
Josh
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caughtinside
Sep 10, 2010, 2:01 AM
Post #131 of 149
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blueeyedclimber wrote: caughtinside wrote: TradEddie wrote: caughtinside wrote: Since when has it been ok to TR the first pitch of a multipitch that people regularly climb to the top? I don't know if I've ever seen that here. In my opinion, since always. As long as you get there first, and don't hog the route for too long. In the case of the OP, they got there first, they actually led the route, and were apparently not taking too long. If you have plans to lead a popular route on the weekend at the Gunks, get up a little earlier, 8am at the stairmaster will get you on just about anything. Don't go claiming that some imaginary ethic or guidebook says that just because you are leading you can claim a route people are already climbing. Better yet, climb weekdays, that's my plan tomorrow. Horse is dead, sorry. TE Must be a gunks thing. Off the top of my head I can't think of a multipitch area out west where people TR the first pitch of a route that is regularly climbed to the top. Seems like when you set out to do the route, you should do the route. Not just the first pitch. Seems like a noobie toproper thing to do. I don't think the original climb in question falls into this category, but there are MANY climbs at the Gunks where people usually only do the first pitch, whether it's because of Quality or difference in grade. You may have a spectacular 5.10d first pitch and then a chossy 5.6 pitch. Josh
yeah, that's why I threw in the 'that is regularly climbed to the top' disclaimer.
oh well.
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blueeyedclimber
Sep 10, 2010, 2:11 AM
Post #132 of 149
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caughtinside wrote: Seems like when you set out to do the route, you should do the route. Not just the first pitch. Seems like a noobie toproper thing to do.
Yeah, you're probably right. But... this may be elitist of me to say... isn't that what 5.6's are for? Noobie topropers?
Josh
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caughtinside
Sep 10, 2010, 2:13 AM
Post #133 of 149
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blueeyedclimber wrote: caughtinside wrote: Seems like when you set out to do the route, you should do the route. Not just the first pitch. Seems like a noobie toproper thing to do. Yeah, you're probably right. But... this may be elitist of me to say... isn't that what 5.6's are for? Noobie topropers? Josh
Aren't there single pitch 5.6s for the noobie topropers to practice on so the 5.6 noobie multipitchers can have their fun?
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jakedatc
Sep 10, 2010, 2:20 AM
Post #134 of 149
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caughtinside wrote: blueeyedclimber wrote: caughtinside wrote: Seems like when you set out to do the route, you should do the route. Not just the first pitch. Seems like a noobie toproper thing to do. Yeah, you're probably right. But... this may be elitist of me to say... isn't that what 5.6's are for? Noobie topropers? Josh Aren't there single pitch 5.6s for the noobie topropers to practice on so the 5.6 noobie multipitchers can have their fun?
Yep! Frogs head! 
low crux, bolted anchors, belay from the ground, and big belay spot to splatter your gear across the trail. sounds about right to me
(This post was edited by jakedatc on Sep 10, 2010, 2:22 AM)
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redlude97
Sep 10, 2010, 2:22 AM
Post #135 of 149
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caughtinside wrote: redlude97 wrote: caughtinside wrote: TradEddie wrote: caughtinside wrote: Since when has it been ok to TR the first pitch of a multipitch that people regularly climb to the top? I don't know if I've ever seen that here. In my opinion, since always. As long as you get there first, and don't hog the route for too long. In the case of the OP, they got there first, they actually led the route, and were apparently not taking too long. If you have plans to lead a popular route on the weekend at the Gunks, get up a little earlier, 8am at the stairmaster will get you on just about anything. Don't go claiming that some imaginary ethic or guidebook says that just because you are leading you can claim a route people are already climbing. Better yet, climb weekdays, that's my plan tomorrow. Horse is dead, sorry. TE Must be a gunks thing. Off the top of my head I can't think of a multipitch area out west where people TR the first pitch of a route that is regularly climbed to the top. Seems like when you set out to do the route, you should do the route. Not just the first pitch. Seems like a noobie toproper thing to do. Godzilla at Index comes to mind. Most only lead/TR the first pitch since the second goes at 5.10+ish Well, there are lots of routes that are multipitch where the first pitch (or maybe just first couple) are regularly done. Central pillar in the valley, people just do the first 5. Dark shadows in red rocks, people generally just do the first 4. A few adventurous souls will climb them to the top. But you don't show up to a climb like that with a group of noobs and toprope just the first pitch. Unless you're at Indian Creek. Never been to index, so I don't know how much the second pitch of that climb you mentioned gets done.
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happiegrrrl
Sep 10, 2010, 5:01 PM
Post #136 of 149
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A funny thing happened to me on the way to the crag yesterday...(well, okay. At the crag, and at Frogshead).
A woman who has just moved to the area emailed me about climbing. It was to be her first time at the Gunks, and she is a LOT better climber than I am(Indian Creek/Zion regular who leads pretty hard), but she said she had no problem getting on lower grades - she just wanted to get out there.
So, we climbed some "getting to know you routes" at my level - very easy for her, and when I asked if she wanted to do something harder yet, she said she had no problem staying in the grade range for her first day out, especially as we had mentioned throwing up a TR on something harder to finish up the day.
So, I say "well, what about High E, or maybe Frogshead?" And we agree that, since we are very near Frogshead, to do that.
At the carriage road, I see a couple sitting on the log at the base, with a rope hanging from the p1 bolts. I assumed they had just finished the route, rapped off, and were in the process of pulling the rope. It actually didn't occur to me that they were on the route....
And so, up we went, and as we got there, I was pointing out the start, mentioned the ledge/bolts, and then how p2 went.
It was fairly clear we were talking of Frogshead. The guy in the party goes, with a stronger-than-needed tone "Are you thinking of doing Frogshead? Because we're on it."
My new friend is obviously much more polite than I, who have been in NYC long enough to have gotten infected with the disease of aggressive impatience. She goes "Hey, no problem. We're just talking" (Or something like that).
I was actually incredulous. There was no way, being a New Yorker, that I could let someone be a dick and then suck it up like they weren't being one!
I said "Well, actually we WERE intending to do Frogshead, and I figured you had just finished and rapped off but hadn't pulled the rope. But no problem, man."
And that would of been that. But the dude says "Nooooo - I just LED the route, and we are resting before she 'works it.'" He gives me dagger eyes as he says this.
I definitely got the vibe that this scenario was like the ghost of christmas past.... but almost fell over laughing, knowing that I could come to this thread and report that it doesn't have to be a busy weekend for a TR fight at the Gunks.
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bill413
Sep 10, 2010, 5:18 PM
Post #137 of 149
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happiegrrrl wrote: And that would of been that. But the dude says "Nooooo - I just LED the route, and we are resting before she 'works it.'"
Must have been quite a lead if they both needed to rest.
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wonderwoman
Sep 10, 2010, 5:21 PM
Post #138 of 149
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bill413 wrote: happiegrrrl wrote: And that would of been that. But the dude says "Nooooo - I just LED the route, and we are resting before she 'works it.'" Must have been quite a lead if they both needed to rest.
Clearly, it was their proj.
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curt
Sep 10, 2010, 5:22 PM
Post #139 of 149
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bill413 wrote: happiegrrrl wrote: And that would of been that. But the dude says "Nooooo - I just LED the route, and we are resting before she 'works it.'" Must have been quite a lead if they both needed to rest.
Well, it is 5.6- 
Curt
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happiegrrrl
Sep 10, 2010, 5:25 PM
Post #140 of 149
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Well....my "project list"(climbs I fell off of) is no great shakes either, so I can't tee hee that remake!
But I forgot to add that my friend said(after we left) that she, too, had assumed it was a rap, as the rope was run directly through the rings. And she did concur that the guy was needlessly dicky in the situation. Well....give her a few weeks to get used to the place and she'll see just how it can get....
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wonderwoman
Sep 10, 2010, 5:39 PM
Post #141 of 149
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happiegrrrl wrote: Well....my "project list"(climbs I fell off of) is no great shakes either, so I can't tee hee that remake!
I'm not meaning to make fun, at all! But I bet, looking back, you can teehee at the need to monopolize it as a TR 'proj'. It is rather ridiculous.
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happiegrrrl
Sep 10, 2010, 6:02 PM
Post #142 of 149
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Well, true. I am a "One Fall, try again. Two falls, try again someday when I am a better climber."
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KeitaroHoshi
Sep 10, 2010, 6:53 PM
Post #143 of 149
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Climbing under someone is just plain stupid. Especially if your climbing under a rookie.
What did they climb if it was a tough climb there leader could have fallen and hindered the belayer causing an epic toproping adventure. Or if it was a easy climb then their leader was probably a rookie to. Making things equally or more dangerous.
When I want to climb the same rout as someone else I usually ask If they mind If I watch first then When I think that they are done I ask If they mind If I can Top rope It before they pull the rope. Most of the time they say "sure you can."
Then there was that one time when the guy started climbing under me while I was rapping off. he got stuck between my rope and the wall. He was asking if I would move over and there was like a 200foot drop over there. I told him no I cant because my ropes arent long enough to rap down that way. When I got to the ledge under me I did wait untill he was ready for me to pull my ropes but I also told him that they sould have waited or climbed somthing different.
I told some people about this and they said thats not how it goes around here. I laughed and said oh thats how it goes around the 5.6-5.8 But it sure dosn't go that way around the 5.10-5.13.
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blueeyedclimber
Sep 10, 2010, 8:15 PM
Post #144 of 149
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I hate when someone tries to pass me on the "Stairmaster." That is TOTALLY against Gunks ethics, as I understand them. I mean, I'm working these stairs and I don't need anybody pressuring me. The last time someone was right up my ass, I turned to him and said, "Look Buddy, I was here first........Plus, I'm only going half way up!"
Pffft. The nerve of some people.
Josh
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blueeyedclimber
Sep 10, 2010, 8:20 PM
Post #145 of 149
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curt wrote: bill413 wrote: happiegrrrl wrote: And that would of been that. But the dude says "Nooooo - I just LED the route, and we are resting before she 'works it.'" Must have been quite a lead if they both needed to rest. Well, it is 5.6- Curt
Elitist.
Plus, it's only 5.5 
(This post was edited by blueeyedclimber on Sep 10, 2010, 8:20 PM)
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bill413
Sep 13, 2010, 12:48 PM
Post #146 of 149
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blueeyedclimber wrote: curt wrote: bill413 wrote: happiegrrrl wrote: And that would of been that. But the dude says "Nooooo - I just LED the route, and we are resting before she 'works it.'" Must have been quite a lead if they both needed to rest. Well, it is 5.6- Curt Elitist. Plus, it's only 5.5
True that! I was no 5.6 leader when I did it.
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Lazlo
Sep 24, 2010, 10:14 PM
Post #147 of 149
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Yesterday I asked a group if they would mind if I climbed the route next to them 
...It does share the first 10 feet though.
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rangerrob
Sep 25, 2010, 12:54 PM
Post #148 of 149
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I had the balls to pass through a group of climbers at the base of the cliff once. Man, I'm an asshole!
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malcolm777b
Sep 25, 2010, 4:10 PM
Post #149 of 149
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redlude97 wrote: caughtinside wrote: TradEddie wrote: caughtinside wrote: Since when has it been ok to TR the first pitch of a multipitch that people regularly climb to the top? I don't know if I've ever seen that here. In my opinion, since always. As long as you get there first, and don't hog the route for too long. In the case of the OP, they got there first, they actually led the route, and were apparently not taking too long. If you have plans to lead a popular route on the weekend at the Gunks, get up a little earlier, 8am at the stairmaster will get you on just about anything. Don't go claiming that some imaginary ethic or guidebook says that just because you are leading you can claim a route people are already climbing. Better yet, climb weekdays, that's my plan tomorrow. Horse is dead, sorry. TE Must be a gunks thing. Off the top of my head I can't think of a multipitch area out west where people TR the first pitch of a route that is regularly climbed to the top. Seems like when you set out to do the route, you should do the route. Not just the first pitch. Seems like a noobie toproper thing to do. Godzilla at Index comes to mind. Most only lead/TR the first pitch since the second goes at 5.10+ish
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