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philbox
Moderator
Aug 24, 2004, 10:10 PM
Post #126 of 138
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I wasn`t trying to be facetious in my rhetorical question of charging users to view the answers to their questions. I was merely trying to foster debate on how we will garner the funds necessary to pay for time spent answering questions.
I guess that if we tried to describe this website we would start here that this website is provided as a forum for the free exchange of ideas. We provide the means to facilitate the exchange of ideas. It is people talking to people and they do that by and large for free. If you like we are the public telephone line that is essentially free.
What we are discussing here is to try to elevate the signal to noise ratio. Lower the noise and raise the signal. Now how best to do that. I don`t think that it is productive to talk about paying people because the corollary to that is that we have to charge for services that are paid for. This will greatly limit the free exchange of ideas on what we agree is essentially a free website.
I have introduced a number of changes to the beginners forum that will hopefully yeild an increase of signal over the noise. I would also like to very much encourage the wiser and more expert members around here to head in to the beginners forum and create some more signal.
I don`t have a problem whatsoever of beginners asking what may seem to us to be stoopid questions as after all the only really stupid question is the one that remains unasked. What we really need to be vigilant over is the quality of the answers. It is the answers that can create the most noise, I am wanting this noise to be toned down. Now this is where the mods and the experts on the beginners forum can work together to come up with creative solutions.
There are three stake holders in the beginners forum there are the question askers and then on the other side of the fence there are the wise experts and lastly the mods. Of course some of the experts are also the mods. In my mind the dunces who answer questions with with wrong and misleading answers don`t count for anything, it is they that we need to be dealing with. It would be prudent to be jumping in on those answers with well thought out clear and concise and well argued facts in lieu of outright flames.
I believe that we can create a quality forum that will be a beacon of wisdom in a sea of mediocrity from which quality FAQs can be developed.
Happy to continue the discussion as I believe that the beginners forum is a work in progress. I don`t believe that it necessarily should be done away with.
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totalfrickennoob
Aug 24, 2004, 10:29 PM
Post #127 of 138
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we were all beginners at some point, which i think some people forget. i find the noob forum very valuable. read all with a grain of salt obviously, but there are some good debates, discussions and tips in there. but maybe we should change the name to A-holes forum, since so many responses fit the mold of "You stooopid Noob, I know all. I have been climbing crags for [insert actual climbing years x a random scalar between 2 and 5] and therefore I know everything. I won't give you an answer to your dumb question, but will only inform you that you will die a spectacularly horrible death if you do [insert]."
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dingus
Aug 24, 2004, 10:46 PM
Post #128 of 138
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In reply to: but maybe we should change the name to A-holes forum, since so many responses fit the mold of "You stooopid Noob, I know all. I have been climbing crags for [insert actual climbing years x a random scalar between 2 and 5] and therefore I know everything. I won't give you an answer to your dumb question, but will only inform you that you will die a spectacularly horrible death if you do [insert]."
I don't see that attitude as being overly prevalent, though it certainly happens here as well as in the world.
I offered the comparison to the pecking order of a large job site, where noobs are subjected to harrassment, ridicule, practical jokes, harsh disregard, outright hostility, friendly encouragement, mentoring advice, a helping hand and if they are lucky a paycheck at the end of the week. It takes all kinds to make a village. Some of us make good teachers. Others decidedly do not.
Welcome to the human race.
Cheers
DMT
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philbox
Moderator
Aug 24, 2004, 11:06 PM
Post #129 of 138
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Damn you dingus, you always come out with the most eloquent posts. :wink:
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jt512
Aug 25, 2004, 12:24 AM
Post #130 of 138
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In reply to: It takes all kinds to make a village.
How did we get stuck with so many Villiage Idiots?
-Jay
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curt
Aug 25, 2004, 6:26 PM
Post #131 of 138
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In reply to: we were all beginners at some point, which i think some people forget. i find the noob forum very valuable. read all with a grain of salt obviously, but there are some good debates, discussions and tips in there. but maybe we should change the name to A-holes forum, since so many responses fit the mold of "You stooopid Noob, I know all. I have been climbing crags for [insert actual climbing years x a random scalar between 2 and 5] and therefore I know everything. I won't give you an answer to your dumb question, but will only inform you that you will die a spectacularly horrible death if you do [insert]."
In general, those types of responses are reserved for posts that are obvious "trolls" placed in the beginner's forum for fun. Occasionally, there maybe a true beginner who asks something ridiculously stupid--but I think that is somewhat rare.
In any event, these "A-hole" answers to questions asked in the beginner's forum are not actually the answers you need to worry about. The really bad answers are those that are made quite seriously to the beginner by someone who has no idea what they are talking about. Often these replies contain potentially dangerous mis-information.
Curt
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dingus
Aug 25, 2004, 6:52 PM
Post #132 of 138
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In reply to: In reply to: It takes all kinds to make a village. How did we get stuck with so many Villiage Idiots? -Jay
Emoticons Jay. They rob one of the ability to communicate with the written word. Idiocy is sure to follow.
DMT
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philbox
Moderator
Aug 25, 2004, 9:21 PM
Post #133 of 138
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:roll: :lol: :? :shock: :oops: :wink:
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happiegrrrl
Aug 26, 2004, 4:48 AM
Post #134 of 138
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I had an idea about a way to address some of the issues that have been brought up in this thread. From what I remember, the things that seem to keep getting repeated are:
- Beginner's tend to ask the same questions repeatedly.
- There are people posting answers that are sometimes not accurate and even, at times, unsafe.
- Members of this site seem to support the idea of having a selection of "experts" address the beginner's posts.
What if the Beginner's Forum was redesigned following a format that is different from the rest of the site? Instead of having on open post/response forum, possibly something like this:
Call it something besides a Beginner's Forum. I am not sure what that would be but there are two "sections" to this area. One where the poster can ask questions and the other where they can introduce themselves as new members to the site.
There is a dialog box where the poster can phrase their question, the same way a lot of "help" sections of sites already do. The program picks up the key words, and comes back with a list of topics to choose from. They click on the closest match and a short, prewritten "article" (by one of our "experts") would open.
At the end of the article, the user is asked if they have received a satisfactory answer. If yes, it could then offer them opportunity to ask another question, and the process would repeat.
If they say no, the program could ask if they would like to go back to the list of topics. If no, then it could ask if they would like to rephrase their question and try again or post their inquiry to one of the sites forums.
If they want to post to a forum, a box would open where they could enter their question(limiting the number of characters might be a good idea). It could have a list of the forums for them to choose to post to.
Those questions would then automatically format to be just like any other forum post. They would be no different from the type of post already being done, and simply be a different way to get the post started.
The "topics" could come from the selection of articles already in the RC database. I wonder if this might even help to get those article read more widely than they currently are..... I know that I have not spent much time looking at them, and the truth is, many are quite well done. It's a shame they aren't more prevalent within the site, and this would be a way to do that.
As well, members could submit articles for consideration within this section. They would be reviewed before being accepted of course. I assume that not every article that currently gets proposed to the site is posted anyway...... This administrators would select only articles that were of merit with good information, well written and not a topic already covered. This would effectively be our "panel of experts advice." Frankly, I think it would be utter torture to ask certain site members to be watching the Beginner's Form (as it stands) and post the same crap over and over and over. It seems an unpleasant task, at minimum....
The writing of articles would also be a nice way for members to contribute to the site in a more sophisticated than through the forums. If there are topics which have not yet been addressed. or when a need for something to be addressed, the site managers could put out a call for submissions.
The other part of the Beginner's Section would be where they can introduce themselves to the site. Perhaps it would start as filling out their profile page, or parts of it anyway. Most beginner's don't have photos or know what all they would want to put on the profiles as they currently are. I think most of us go in at a later time and create them.
Anyway, they would have the option of having the profile displayed in a "New Members" section of the site..... Along with the profile, there could be a text box where they could write an introductory hello (again, limit the number of characters). That part would not become part of their permanent profile...
And, at days end, or after some amount of time or some other way to measure, the older "New Member Introductions" would drop off the page.
I wouldn't suggest having that area be interactive, as it would them simply become.....the Beginners' Forum all over again!
Anyway - that's my idea. It would be a pretty huge undertaking, I think. But, if the site is looking to revamp the Beginner's Forum, it will be a pretty big thing no matter what, so I don't think I have wasted my time in putting this out there. If any of it sounds like something of interest - take what you like, and ditch the rest. Thanks for reading....
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philbox
Moderator
Aug 26, 2004, 5:36 AM
Post #135 of 138
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Wow happiegrrrl that was an encyclypeadia. Thanks for putting a lot of thought into it, it may come in useful at some point in the future. I don`t know whether we are prepared to put that much work into the sort of revamp that you have proposed at this stage. Definitely something for us to keep in mind for the future though.
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happiegrrrl
Aug 26, 2004, 1:26 PM
Post #136 of 138
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Registered: Mar 25, 2004
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Phillbox - I was on a bit of a roll last night...the only real effort was entering the text. The idea came to me while I was out walking my dog, and I just put about 5 minutes of thought into it before I started typing. It's unfortunate for me that I just don't seem to be able to edit my thoughts when I go to write, the way most people can.....
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rwaltermyer
Aug 26, 2004, 1:46 PM
Post #137 of 138
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Registered: Aug 10, 2001
Posts: 1059
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One problem with the forum format, however, is that it doesn't read very friendly.
For example, Mini Beginners Guide ; lots of excess stuff loses the effectiveness of the page. Keeping it simple (visually) IMO should be a goal.
alpnclmbr1's Trad FAQ is formatted well.
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jt512
Aug 26, 2004, 6:16 PM
Post #138 of 138
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Registered: Apr 12, 2001
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: It takes all kinds to make a village. How did we get stuck with so many Villiage Idiots? -Jay Emoticons Jay. They rob one of the ability to communicate with the written word. Idiocy is sure to follow. DMT
Dingus, if only you knew of the argument I had with roughster about this very thing.
-Jay
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