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majid_sabet
May 3, 2009, 8:05 PM
Post #176 of 191
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vegastradguy wrote: majid_sabet wrote: There only two type of daisy that are the safest in event of a belayer fall on anchor; The old school daisy made of 1 inch webbing and the purcell prusik. That is it. All others may fail .The adjustable daisy with jaws of death are among the worse right next to skinny spectra type. as noted before in this thread and elsewhere, the Sterling Chain Reactor has also been proven to withstand a belayer fall onto the anchor due to its nylon construction.
I have seen how parcell and one 1" webbing handled a 100 kg drop test so I feel pretty safe about the two but no nothing about the Chain reactor but I am sure one of these days, it will show up in drop test .
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vegastradguy
May 3, 2009, 10:52 PM
Post #177 of 191
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majid_sabet wrote: vegastradguy wrote: majid_sabet wrote: There only two type of daisy that are the safest in event of a belayer fall on anchor; The old school daisy made of 1 inch webbing and the purcell prusik. That is it. All others may fail .The adjustable daisy with jaws of death are among the worse right next to skinny spectra type. as noted before in this thread and elsewhere, the Sterling Chain Reactor has also been proven to withstand a belayer fall onto the anchor due to its nylon construction. I have seen how parcell and one 1" webbing handled a 100 kg drop test so I feel pretty safe about the two but no nothing about the Chain reactor but I am sure one of these days, it will show up in drop test .
contact sterling- they've done drop tests on it- it holds up.
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donald949
May 5, 2009, 8:30 PM
Post #178 of 191
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bill413 wrote: zealotnoob wrote: No, it's simple. When done climbing you make a deliberate switch to descending mode. You rack your gear out of the way, you ready your auto-block and rap device and you prep a sling or two with lockers for personal anchoring. You set it up the same way every time. No need to clutter the harness while climbing. On a side note, I'd be willing to bet there's a positive correlation between climbers who use daisies and climbers who carry hexes. Oh - I like the deliberate switch of modes. I think that's something I probably do without acknowledging it. Thanks! Not sure about the daisy/hex correlation - I'll have to watch out for that.
No death by daisy here, but...
I do use a PAS and rack hexes.
When warrented.
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donald949
May 5, 2009, 9:43 PM
Post #179 of 191
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tradrenn wrote: welle wrote: tradrenn wrote: D.C. is just another useless thing to carry up the climb that gets tangled between gear. I think you would be better of learning "clove hitch - one handed" http://www.climerware.com/clove.shtml Save your money. HTH it's good except for situations when your rope is weighted or kinked pretty bad. I had a similar situation that rgold describes, so I had to clip in with a sling girth-hitched from my belay loop, unweight the rope, put a piece in closer to the problem area, clip in with a clove hitch and get out the pickle... In retrospect, it would've helped very much if I had a sling already girth-hitched to my belay loop. rgold wrote: 3. Sometimes, a nut or cam gets stuck and the second has to hang in order to free both hands for the removal process. With today's super-long leads and stretchy ropes, it can be an exercise in frustration and futility to try to have the leader hold the second in place. In many cases, it is better for the second to place some recently-cleaned gear and hang from it. Having an adjustable tether ready to go makes this process a lot more efficient. I think it depends on your personal choice, in my case I would just clip a draw, foot or two long to a gear that I'm about to hang from and clip other end of the draw to my harness. Two reasons why I don't like D.C. ( even hate the thing ) #1. Friend of mine had it between his legs, G.H. to his belay loop and clipped other end to his chalk bag, when he try to use it he couldn't because part of it got tangled somewhere and he was stack until I told him to use one of the draws that he clean from gear while seconding me on that particular pitch. In the end it worked out that it was easier for him to use draws. #2. One of my partners in B.C. uses D.C. and because I hate the think I asked her if she could leave it in the car and try anchoring "my way" for a day. She said "but I like my D.C." and end up using it for a day. Later on I was seconding her and I'm about 10-15 feet from the anchor and what do I see ? She is clipped to one bolt via D.C. which was shortened in the wrong way, just like they show in BD. video and is belaying me up of off the harness. If I fell while seconding her........................... You can probably imagine what would happen. The irony in this story is that we had a perfectly equalized equalette hanging there of two bolt anchor with two biners to tie in and she didn't use it, which we had a very long conversation about once we finished that route. I think you people shouldn't use daisy just so you don't make a mistake like my partner did. HTH.
#2 Gulp. 
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donald949
May 5, 2009, 9:49 PM
Post #180 of 191
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bill413 wrote: seatbeltpants wrote: then hang it between my legs and clipped to my haul loop - keeps it out of the way, but dead easy to find. does the job well, never in the way, can be recruited as an additional sling if required, and damn quick if and when it's needed. Well, I can understand: - Hangs between my legs - Not in the way - dead easy to find - does the job well - damn quick when it's needed Just wondering about "can be recruited as an additional sling."
Woosh...
The sound of your post going over everyone's head.
Good work by the way.
;D
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bill413
May 5, 2009, 11:54 PM
Post #181 of 191
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donald949 wrote: bill413 wrote: seatbeltpants wrote: then hang it between my legs and clipped to my haul loop - keeps it out of the way, but dead easy to find. does the job well, never in the way, can be recruited as an additional sling if required, and damn quick if and when it's needed. Well, I can understand: - Hangs between my legs - Not in the way - dead easy to find - does the job well - damn quick when it's needed Just wondering about "can be recruited as an additional sling." Woosh... The sound of your post going over everyone's head. Good work by the way. ;D
Recognition at last! 
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hafilax
May 6, 2009, 12:12 AM
Post #182 of 191
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bill413 wrote: donald949 wrote: bill413 wrote: seatbeltpants wrote: then hang it between my legs and clipped to my haul loop - keeps it out of the way, but dead easy to find. does the job well, never in the way, can be recruited as an additional sling if required, and damn quick if and when it's needed. Well, I can understand: - Hangs between my legs - Not in the way - dead easy to find - does the job well - damn quick when it's needed Just wondering about "can be recruited as an additional sling." Woosh... The sound of your post going over everyone's head. Good work by the way. ;D Recognition at last!
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donald949
May 6, 2009, 3:56 PM
Post #183 of 191
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bill413 wrote: donald949 wrote: bill413 wrote: seatbeltpants wrote: then hang it between my legs and clipped to my haul loop - keeps it out of the way, but dead easy to find. does the job well, never in the way, can be recruited as an additional sling if required, and damn quick if and when it's needed. Well, I can understand: - Hangs between my legs - Not in the way - dead easy to find - does the job well - damn quick when it's needed Just wondering about "can be recruited as an additional sling." Woosh... The sound of your post going over everyone's head. Good work by the way. ;D Recognition at last!
Seriously, everyone was out to lunch.
Dang fine work if you ask me.
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donald949
May 6, 2009, 3:57 PM
Post #184 of 191
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hafilax wrote: bill413 wrote: donald949 wrote: bill413 wrote: seatbeltpants wrote: then hang it between my legs and clipped to my haul loop - keeps it out of the way, but dead easy to find. does the job well, never in the way, can be recruited as an additional sling if required, and damn quick if and when it's needed. Well, I can understand: - Hangs between my legs - Not in the way - dead easy to find - does the job well - damn quick when it's needed Just wondering about "can be recruited as an additional sling." Woosh... The sound of your post going over everyone's head. Good work by the way. ;D Recognition at last! Full strength tampon string?
Umm, no.
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dingus
May 7, 2009, 11:03 AM
Post #185 of 191
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donald949 wrote: tradrenn wrote: #2. One of my partners in B.C. uses D.C. and because I hate the think I asked her if she could leave it in the car and try anchoring "my way" for a day. She said "but I like my D.C." and end up using it for a day. Later on I was seconding her and I'm about 10-15 feet from the anchor and what do I see ? She is clipped to one bolt via D.C. which was shortened in the wrong way, just like they show in BD. video and is belaying me up of off the harness. If I fell while seconding her........................... You can probably imagine what would happen. The irony in this story is that we had a perfectly equalized equalette hanging there of two bolt anchor with two biners to tie in and she didn't use it, which we had a very long conversation about once we finished that route. I think you people shouldn't use daisy just so you don't make a mistake like my partner did. HTH. #2 Gulp.
While of COURSE you needed to have this out with your partner I can indeed imagine what would have happened had you fallen 2nding on that pitch.
She would have caught you and the daisy and bolt would have held just fine. As an aside if there were already an equalized anchor attached to both bolts and her daisy attached to one of them she was not anchored by a single bolt. I'm jus sayin....
My only point here is this... yes dasiy usage is dangerous and pocket clipping can cause a fatal unzippering. It is a danger but daisies don't just unsew themselves... it takes FORCE to do that and not a couple of statis bodies either.
The far bigger concern is the caution rgold offers about taking a high force leader fall against a fairly static tie in material. That is imo the real concern.
Anyway, I'm not defending the partner's actions. I would have said something too and I would not have waited to the end of the climb. But daisies are a little tougher than some perhaps may think.
Cheerio!
DMT
(This post was edited by dingus on May 7, 2009, 11:05 AM)
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hafilax
May 7, 2009, 5:50 PM
Post #186 of 191
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I started a new thread on it but since this was the inspiration for posting I'll put it here as well.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...um.cgi?post=2135639;
The Beal Dynaconnexion is a tether made with dynamic cord with 2 biner attachment points designed in response to the drop tests on dyneema and to allow a dynamic connection to the anchor in all situations.
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Lazlo
May 7, 2009, 8:56 PM
Post #187 of 191
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shu2kill
May 8, 2009, 3:37 AM
Post #188 of 191
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bill413 wrote: I've climbed for quite a while with a runner girth hitched to my belay loop. (Actually, the last couple of years I've used two dyneema slings in parallel - but....). What I liked about it was coming up to an anchor & clipping in very quickly. Especially when leading. Also, when rapping, it was very convenient to rap down to a station, clip the anchor, and get off the rap quickly. However... After Todd Skinner's accident, I became concious (well, worried) about the fact that my slings were living on the same spot on the belay loop all the time. Then, reading about "human funkness devices" and the advantages of tying in with the rope, I'm converting to not having them permanently attached to me. As this is my first season in a long while without them pre-attached, I'll have to see how it goes. I'm sure I'll feel better anchoring in while climbing, and be annoyed when rapping, but we'll see 
arent daisies or PAS meant to be girth hitched to the tie in points?? i think thats what the instructions on my metolius pas said.
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bill413
May 8, 2009, 4:43 PM
Post #189 of 191
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shu2kill wrote: arent daisies or PAS meant to be girth hitched to the tie in points?? i think thats what the instructions on my metolius pas said.
Of course, my slings didn't come with instructions for doing this, so ...
Edited to add:
I took a look at my harness, and I had, indeed, hitched them to the soft points, not to the belay loop as I earlier said.
Still, I'm changing to taking it off & putting it on when needed. Just make sure to use a color that is NOT similar to the harness & belay loop color. 
(This post was edited by bill413 on May 19, 2009, 5:00 PM)
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jason_martin
May 19, 2009, 1:52 PM
Post #190 of 191
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http://alpineinstitute.blogspot.com/2009/05/daisy-chain-conundrum.html
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Rudmin
May 20, 2009, 3:17 AM
Post #191 of 191
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shu2kill wrote: arent daisies or PAS meant to be girth hitched to the tie in points?? i think thats what the instructions on my metolius pas said.
My PAS definitely said to girth hitch to the belay loop. I checked it several times and looked at the picture before deciding to girth it to the tie in points anyways.
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