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sparky
May 10, 2005, 8:39 AM
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I saw the article on smoking (pot) and climbing, what do you think? Are herbals a hindrance or helpful or just fun for after the climb on summit or @ camp? In other words, when do you have your "SAFTEY MEETINGS," at the base, mid-climb, summit, return to base, all of the above or not at all?
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tisar
May 10, 2005, 9:24 AM
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Since I quit smoking a couple of years ago (after haveing consumed a huge amount of dope on a daily basis) I wouldn't smoke at the crag. It affects me way too hard so every adequate activity has something to do with a couch and tv.
Though I'm not anal about other people smoking. I know far to many who are able to be absolutely focussed even (or because) they just had a smoke. But keep in mind that most people I deal with (no pun intended) are beyond their 25ths. Means the tend to know what they are doing and are quite aware of the effects they get from their consumption.
It's all about trusting the partner, if I can't I don't climb. Period.
- Daniel
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overlord
May 10, 2005, 9:29 AM
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just smoked at the crag once. but even then i did not belay anybody and all the climbing ive done was TR.
its too easy to screw something up normally and i just didnt think it was worth the risk. and i dont climb as well when under influence anyway (gym experience).
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nonick
May 10, 2005, 10:20 AM
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I doubt if pot enhances alpine performance in anyway, no matter what the mags say..
Haven't read the article - unfortunately never even seen the mag. But from what i hear its a serious mag. Wonder what the fuss is all about anyway..
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gunksgoer
May 10, 2005, 11:25 AM
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I believe the authors conclusion was something along the lines of:
"When the going gets tough, the tough better get unstoned fast"
It was also amusing to read about the stoned tester who started the climb and then had to anounce that he forgot the rack. I think thats your answer right there.
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clarki
May 10, 2005, 12:02 PM
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Man, I don't need weed to forget to take a rack up on a climb. I've probably had to downclimb 8 or 10 times in the last half dozen years because I got to the first bolt/placement and realized I didn't have anything to put there.
Don't get me wrong, I love a good smoke now and then, I just don't need to be stoned to f##k things up. Guess I'm just lucky that way.
John
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kyote321
May 10, 2005, 12:49 PM
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i've been on both sides of the the smoking coin.
for bouldering: safety not really a problem, i tend to get focused and aggressive. :robert:
for sport; possible to get wigged from heights when smoking, but usually the opposite effect. again, tend to get focused, move well, and relaxed., but unpredictable.
for trad: i know those that do, but i haven't had enough recent trad experience to be comfortable unless it is way below my ability level. i could definitely see things getting pear-shaped, as they say, getting confused picking and placing gear, being paranoid about the placement, etc. :shock:
lately, i've realized that smoking puts me in a focused state that i can achieve through meditation, so i am working on that. it can relax your head and muscles in a beneficial way. in the end, smoking affects your emotions and motivation is unpredictable. however, good times to smoke would be when you are tired, third day on, low motivation days, etc.
good topic. many climbers do smoke, many also don't. i think the general community would be surprised to learn how many top climbers do.
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andy_reagan
May 10, 2005, 12:50 PM
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Ah, the smoking article. My first Alpinist read! I was very excited to be reading this mag in Barnes and Noble, I've heard great things! It was, needless to say, quite a letdown to read that article. I thought it was poorly written and not very humorous. Alpinist now ranks up there with the other mags, insofar as the most productive use of time while "reading" them is to look through all the pictures.
Checking out the hotties at Barnes and Noble is always more fun, anyways.
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gat
May 10, 2005, 1:00 PM
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It cannot be covered by a single answer. It is very dependent on the individual. I think there are some factors that can be examined to help predict a person's performance at a given task while stoned...
1. How capable are they at the given task when straight?
2. How often do they smoke?
3. What type of activities have they become accustomed to doing while high? By this I mean are they used to having to keep things straight, or do they just sit on the couch and watch television.
Edited: Forgot to say that the above is through my own exerience with my smoking and observation of friends who were smoking and climbing/mtn biking/kayaking/skiing.
As far as my own choices, it tends to be based on my mood. Recently I'd rather save it for the end of the day. The transitions just don't seem to be fast enough when buzzed. They are more fun, but not fast enough ;)
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kyote321
May 10, 2005, 2:16 PM
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the article itself was pretty crap, i wish i had written a smoking article where i got paid to get my friends high! probably $200 a page.
i have to give props to alpinist though, and least they did the article. i can't see the other two having the huevitos to do so.
it is a topic worth exploring. it is rampant in our community.
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kyote321
May 10, 2005, 2:19 PM
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the article itself was pretty crap, i wish i had written a smoking article where i got paid to get my friends high! probably $200 a page.
i have to give props to alpinist though, and least they did the article. i can't see the other two having the huevitos to do so.
it is a topic worth exploring. it is rampant in our community.
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spacemonkey07
May 10, 2005, 2:40 PM
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I mostly have the experience that I get a good mood for climbing when I smoke. I don't know if it makes your preformance better. When it does so, for me it's only in the first couple of moves. So for bouldering it's OK for me. But in a route I mostly do the first moves very well, but further on in the route I loose concentration and fuck things up.
I don;t know if I really enjoy the climbing as much as sober though.. I definitely enjoy thinking about climbing a lot when I'm stoned. Therefore I mostly smoke after the climbing.
...maybe the higher heartrate (which you get when you are stoned) lets your muscles recover faster after the climbing activity.
...just my thoughts on the topic as a regular smoker
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jonoj
May 10, 2005, 2:58 PM
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I used to smoke everywhere I went. Climbing-wise, I've smoked while packing my gear, driving to the crag, a quick puff before the walk-in, at the base of the crag, at the top of the route (sometimes on a ledge a few pitches up, and once all the way up Mt Kilimanjaro.. the view from the top was deservedly well enhanced after the summit spliff), once on a long rap, and quite a few times I've played around on easy climbs with a burnin' fatty hangin' out of my mouth, and of course plenty more after the day's climbing...... if there was one thing I enjoyed more than climbing, it was toking....
... but then, up till seven or so weeks ago, I had been smoking daily for for twelve odd years (about seven years longer than I've been climbing), so I guess it didn't negatively change my perception and reaction time as much as it would change normal folks'. For me that glorious plant was neither a help nor hinderence, merely a highly enjoyable regular part of my life.
I decided to see what would happen if I stopped..... and have been miserably disappointed.... aside from having really vivid dreams again, there's been no extraordinary bursts of motivation, no high-on-life crud, no sudden hordes of gorgeous intillegent girlfriends that I have to beat off with a stick....... just the same ol' me as always!
Giving it a couple more months, and if none of the above have occurred, I'm rolling a big one!! :twisted:
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kyote321
May 10, 2005, 3:08 PM
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jonoj,
yeah, i can agree, i don't think smoking really helps or hurts at the end of the day. it can help my motivation some days, others i would be unmotivated in either case. it often does help at the gym. the outdoors i tend to get psyched for because it is outside!
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cchildre
May 10, 2005, 3:41 PM
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I have not done the mid pitch thing but I am sure it will happen some day.
The type of smoke you have is very dependent as they have different side effects. Cheap bud tends to inspire more paranoia and can freak me out mid route if we smoked to much. The expensive killer bud makes a larger impression on my mood and motivation without the side effects of the lesser quality product. The drawback is the cost, and the fact that you can very easily over do it and then climbing can be a connundrum. This is coming from an someone that has "safety meetings" all the time, so don't be mislead. A first time burn before a climb will most likely never get started because the noob would be laughing hystercially and it would surely freak them out.
I think it is all dependent on the climber.
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pushsendnorcal
May 10, 2005, 3:57 PM
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Hello...didn't we have an 8 page thread on this already...yes we did...someone lock this thread down
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skinnyclimber
May 10, 2005, 4:09 PM
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Here's about 2 cents from my 2.5 decades of life experience.
First off: If you have been smoking long enough that you can comfortably perform complicated tasks and learn at least a few new things high you might be able to climb high. If not you may become confused easily. What does this mean? Only those who are well seasoned should smoke and climb (since a mistake could be lethal) In my life I have learned to doulde check things when high and there is definitely a place for that in climbing... even sober people make mistakes.
Smoking while bouldering is fun, usually affects my climb in a positive way and gives me something to do inbetween attempts other than staring at the rock.
Gym climbing is definitely enhanced by a trip or two to the car for a "snack".
In general on the cliffs I leave the "safety meeting" until after I climb, but that's also because no one I climb with smokes, so I just wait until I get home. But one very fun exercise for those wishing to give this a try is to rig a top rope on a climb near the top of your abilities. Then you take a few rips and get on the route. You will find it a different experience, and that may be good or bad depending on: How much and how often you smoke, how much you smoked right before the climb, how you feel today, who you are... and many other random things. For me it's almost always a postive experience and my climbing is fluid and feels natural, but sometimes I get lazy, or smoke too much and just flail.
Soooooo... The point is to know your limit and when it's safe for you to do it. I am learning to lead and I don't feel comfortable doing that stoned, so I always wait until after I have made a few good leads in the day to impair my judgement.
As far as "when the going gets tough, the tough better get unstoned fast" I find that a nice boost of adrenaline knocks the pot out of my head, unless I'm completely wasted in which case, climbing of any sort is not safe.
Moderation, moderation, moderation!! Know your limit and stick within it!
Stay high (if it's safe)
Skinny (where's the stoned happy face) 8^)
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tenesmus
May 10, 2005, 4:36 PM
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All you dope smokin climbers stay the fuck away from me. I have a nice, up close and personal experience with pot and being "at the mike". When I was a river guide in the Grand Canyon I took my parents on a trip with me. We stopped for lunch at Pete's Rock for the shade and two of the boatmen went and got stoned in the bushes. When we got back on the river we ended up switching boats and both of the stoned guides were on the boat with my parents.
We ran Specter rapid first and stopped in the eddy below to watch them do the run. In the Grand, we ran these huge 38 foot by 18 foot pontoon rigs that weighed 4 and a half tons. The rapid is a simple wave train with about 5 or 6 15 foot tall haystack waves near a wall on river right. My stoned friend crossed the wave train, then motored hard to get back into it. He over-corrected at full speed and drove the whole boatload of passengers right into the wall with the full force of the Colorado River and all that inertia right behind it.
My parents were right on the side of the boat and were thrown out of the boat - hit the wall and fell back into the boat right by the mangled metal that was thrashing around for the rest of the rapid. They were black and blue all over. My dad got a mild concussion and was actually shaking from the fear. It was totally scary.
Here's the pinch of it all: I didn't find out my friend was high until the next season. He was actually offended that I was upset when I found out. I'm over it now, but I can still hear his shock when he said,"So I was high when I wrecked in Specter. They're still alive. What else can I do?" That's how I found out.
Don't kid yourself. If you smoke you are a danger to everyone else around you. So please, stay the fuck away from me if you're climbing.
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usccabum
May 10, 2005, 5:05 PM
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Pot and climbing, what a mix. I have been smoking longer(7years) than climbing( 4 years) and love the mix. At first I was aprehencive about blazing and climbing but I got over it. My main climbing partner is also a pot head. We have a double check system that works well ( Its a Loooong checklest) and then have one of out sober partners check us out. Its cool that out group is like that. Sooo many times I have been yelled at for blazing at the crag. Last time I went bolt cliping my frind and I decided to smoke a bowl befor the first route. Some teen climbing phenom came bounding over from the other end of the crag ( 100+ yards) to tell us to stop. Now if she was afrade for our safty that would be one thing but all she told us was " cant you do it in your car fuckin druggies!" Appalling. I was shocked. Oh well I guess you cant be far enough away frome dissaproving eyes. As far a my 2 cents Blaze and climb, check you self, and have a blast. ( Only experenced climbers should toke and climb)
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kyote321
May 10, 2005, 5:30 PM
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In reply to: All you dope smokin climbers stay the f--- away from me. Don't kid yourself. If you smoke you are a danger to everyone else around you. So please, stay the f--- away from me if you're climbing.
while i respect your opinion and am sorry for what happened to your parents, don't generalize all heads from your experience. esp. with gri-gris, the experienced belayer has a very low chance of putting anyone in danger. as for climbing, you are only putting yourself in danger, unless you are doing multi-pitch of course.
i don't want society to ban climbing, motorcycles, or anything else because you are a danger to yourself, please don't do the same to your fellow climbers.
my observation is that pot will make people more paranoid, and more cautious, it can bury the ego and hence the accompanying angst that motivates for the high-ball problem and the run-out on rp, x-rated, send.
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tenesmus
May 10, 2005, 6:03 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: All you dope smokin climbers stay the f--- away from me. Don't kid yourself. If you smoke you are a danger to everyone else around you. So please, stay the f--- away from me if you're climbing. while i respect your opinion and am sorry for what happened to your parents, don't generalize all heads from your experience. esp. with gri-gris, the experienced belayer has a very low chance of putting anyone in danger. as for climbing, you are only putting yourself in danger, unless you are doing multi-pitch of course. i don't want society to ban climbing, motorcycles, or anything else because you are a danger to yourself, please don't do the same to your fellow climbers. my observation is that pot will make people more paranoid, and more cautious, it can bury the ego and hence the accompanying angst that motivates for the high-ball problem and the run-out on rp, x-rated, send.
Just please, don't bring it near me.
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kyote321
May 10, 2005, 6:25 PM
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They why so many stories about guys who crash and burn while they're high?
i haven't heard those stories.When you're done at the end of the day and I don't have to worry about hauling an injured party off some crag then,by all means... feel free to do what you want to do.
again, i am feeling a generalization. the other day, we were out and this girl insisted to putting here ankle over the rope when doing a traversy section. granted, it was easier that way, but she was putting herself in danger. she wouldn't stop despite our asking her to do so. her choice.
should everyone where a helmet at the cliffs? even at sport areas with low-rock fall danger? that would be safest thing.
if you feel better not having your own belayer smoking, fair enough. i ask my belayers not to talk while i am trying a difficult redpoint, even though i know i have their attention, it makes me believe it more when they aren't blathering on to someone else.Unfortunately, most guys who do toke up then simply get in their car and drive home. Have you? Isn't that even more dangerous?
Just please, don't bring it near me.
i actually started smoking while driving a four-hour trip weekend ritual. i do think it helps me be a better driver (not in traffic ). the roads out here are long and straight. i get more bored, more likely to fall asleep, or loose attention, when i am not hi.
studies were done that show that eating while driving (not in traffic) helps keep attention On he road becasue the food stimulates a part of the part not related to driving and therefore keeps the driving side alert, otherwise it gets bored. my experience is that pot does a similar action.
emergency room driving victims are drunk, they may have pot involved and the case can be made that pot isn't going to help a drunk person perform better at the wheel. however, there has been no evidence that pot alone will overall cause accidents. i am sure there is the odd case of first-time stoned teenager on the chronic that gets behind the wheel and gets fixated on the sunset and wraps it around a tree. but, i have almost done this while stone sober and looking at an enticing cliff band. :oops:
thanks for the dialog.
respect
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godawgs
May 10, 2005, 6:29 PM
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"don't generalize all heads from your experience. esp. with gri-gris," In reply to: -kyote321 This quote right here is my issue with gri-gris. People believe that they are fool-proof. If you believe that using a gri-gri permits you to smoke when otherwise you wouldn't feel safe, don't do it. I spent two years working at a gym teaching people to belay with those things. I have come to the conclusion that they are more dangerous than other belay devices because people think they are so safe that they become incredibly inattentive to the belay. As far as the issue goes, smoke all you want if you like to. It helps some, hurts others. Depends on the person.
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gat
May 10, 2005, 6:35 PM
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Here is the way I see it...
Those who have never smoked have all the governmental hype and "stupid high people" stories as ammo against smoking. Also, it's difficult for them to comprehend that an individual can be "high" and not be smashed. They can't see there is a difference between carrying a relaxing buzz and being smashed.
Those who have tried it recreationally can't understand how anyone could function competently while smoking. Again, the difference between a mellow buzz and being smashed is going to be a difficult concept for them to grasp.
The heavy smokers can't understand how someone with little or no personal experience can make blanket statements about them without the opportunity to evaluate them and their abilities as an individual.
I think there are a lot of people who would be shocked to know the number of people who are out there toking on a regular basis. The funny part about this is that many "non-user's" interact with them regularly without knowing it.
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