|
lyhlia
Sep 27, 2007, 12:14 PM
Post #1 of 33
(17365 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 27, 2007
Posts: 4
|
I started climbing in May. Prior to climbing, my idea of exercising was either shopping or walking around an art museum.
Then I discovered rock climbing and have become marginally obsessed with it. I go to the gym about three or four times a week and I try to climb outside two or three times a month.
I'm having no trouble doing 5.9s, but am getting stuck on the 10's (indoors).
I've read books (Rock Climbing: Mastering Basic Skills by Craig Luebben, and Training for Climbing: The Definitive Guide to Improving Your Climbing Performance).
How do I progress past these "tricky" 10s?
|
|
|
|
|
ThaRiddla
Sep 27, 2007, 12:35 PM
Post #2 of 33
(17346 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 7, 2007
Posts: 11
|
try climbing your 9s with harder feet (chips only, limited holds & features, etc) which will force you to get better with your technique and food placement.
|
|
|
|
|
clemsonscooby
Sep 27, 2007, 12:46 PM
Post #3 of 33
(17332 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 21, 2006
Posts: 190
|
Get a hangboard. I was in a similar situation last year, and the handboard helped me excel past 5.10. I then invested in a homemade negative wall to improve core strength. It helps to run, stretch/yoga, and lift weights on off days. Don't rush it though, because its easy to injure your hands.
If you read better bouldering, it is said that anyone that doesn't have at least two years of climbing experience is still new, because there are so many moves to learn. Once you get the balance of the moves everything will come faster, but you are always learning.
(This post was edited by clemsonscooby on Sep 27, 2007, 12:47 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
lyhlia
Sep 27, 2007, 12:57 PM
Post #4 of 33
(17322 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 27, 2007
Posts: 4
|
clemsonscooby wrote: Get a hangboard. I was in a similar situation last year, and the handboard helped me excel past 5.10. I then invested in a homemade negative wall to improve core strength. It helps to run, stretch/yoga, and lift weights on off days. Don't rush it though, because its easy to injure your hands. If you read better bouldering, it is said that anyone that doesn't have at least two years of climbing experience is still new, because there are so many moves to learn. Once you get the balance of the moves everything will come faster, but you are always learning.
What is a negative wall?
How do you use a hangboard? I imagine it would involve hanging, but is that all?
|
|
|
|
|
overlord
Sep 27, 2007, 2:07 PM
Post #5 of 33
(17303 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 25, 2002
Posts: 14120
|
clemsonscooby wrote: Get a hangboard. I was in a similar situation last year, and the handboard helped me excel past 5.10. I then invested in a homemade negative wall to improve core strength. It helps to run, stretch/yoga, and lift weights on off days. Don't rush it though, because its easy to injure your hands. If you read better bouldering, it is said that anyone that doesn't have at least two years of climbing experience is still new, because there are so many moves to learn. Once you get the balance of the moves everything will come faster, but you are always learning.
dont listen to this person. whatever you do, do not get a hangboard.
at this stage you should be concentrating on your technique and not strength/power/whatever. build a solid techique base and when you do so, you will see that most .10s actually do not require significant strength. best thing to do so is to climb routes that are somewhat comfortable while focusing on the aspect of technique you want to develop at the time.
if you start focusing on your strength, you will likely just pull through the moves and have poor technique. and once you get onto routes where strength alone is not enough, youll be like a fish on a dry land. relearning bad habits is much harder than learning it the proper way first time around.
as for how to do it... first search the forums and articles on this site.
second... as for books, most of them are imho pretty useless. the only two i really liked and that have helped me are the performance rock climbing and the self coached climer. for a beginner i would recommed the latter.
third... an experienced partner help a lot. but if he tells you that you need to do more pullups or campus/hangboard, system wall etc, find another.
|
|
|
|
|
lyhlia
Sep 27, 2007, 2:55 PM
Post #6 of 33
(17269 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 27, 2007
Posts: 4
|
overlord wrote: clemsonscooby wrote: Get a hangboard. I was in a similar situation last year, and the handboard helped me excel past 5.10. I then invested in a homemade negative wall to improve core strength. It helps to run, stretch/yoga, and lift weights on off days. Don't rush it though, because its easy to injure your hands. If you read better bouldering, it is said that anyone that doesn't have at least two years of climbing experience is still new, because there are so many moves to learn. Once you get the balance of the moves everything will come faster, but you are always learning. dont listen to this person. whatever you do, do not get a hangboard. at this stage you should be concentrating on your technique and not strength/power/whatever. build a solid techique base and when you do so, you will see that most .10s actually do not require significant strength. best thing to do so is to climb routes that are somewhat comfortable while focusing on the aspect of technique you want to develop at the time. if you start focusing on your strength, you will likely just pull through the moves and have poor technique. and once you get onto routes where strength alone is not enough, youll be like a fish on a dry land. relearning bad habits is much harder than learning it the proper way first time around. as for how to do it... first search the forums and articles on this site. second... as for books, most of them are imho pretty useless. the only two i really liked and that have helped me are the performance rock climbing and the self coached climer. for a beginner i would recommed the latter. third... an experienced partner help a lot. but if he tells you that you need to do more pullups or campus/hangboard, system wall etc, find another.
Thank you. I will run out during lunch to grab a copy of Self Coached Climber. I was told that Performance Rock Climbing is good, but the book is outdated. Would you agree?
Would you have any advice on how to find an experienced partner?
|
|
|
|
|
sidepull
Sep 27, 2007, 3:00 PM
Post #7 of 33
(17260 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 11, 2001
Posts: 2335
|
Doesn't Training for Climbing talk about what a hangboard is and how it's used?
At any rate, Overlord's advice is dead on. You should NOT be hangboarding at this stage. If you're struggling on 10's then you probably need to spend a bit more time on the 9's, really focusing on climbing smoothly and/or efficiently (sometimes efficient isn't smooth, e.g. dyno's). Also, get the Self Coached Climber - it's got a lot of movement exercises that should really help you structure your climbing sessions to get the most out of them. Finally, I can't agree more with finding a good partner or crew that provides positive energy and support. It's always easier to do a move once you've seen someone else do it.
Good luck!
|
|
|
|
|
wanderlustmd
Sep 27, 2007, 3:22 PM
Post #8 of 33
(17242 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 24, 2006
Posts: 8150
|
PRC is good, but it is a little dated. It is also kinda cheesy in the setup, which prevented me from finishing it.
Lots of good information overall, though, which I guess is all that matters. I've heard very good things about SCC, haven't read it.
|
|
|
|
|
jto
Sep 27, 2007, 3:26 PM
Post #9 of 33
(17234 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 18, 2004
Posts: 272
|
agreeing with sidepull and overlord. climb a lot and forget hangboards etc. for power. instead:
- CLIMB for endurance (routes)
- CLIMB for strength (boulders)
- CLIMB for power (boulders)
- CLIMB a lot!
many times said in many threads but that´s the way. if you start climbing let´s say three times a week and every other workout you stress strength and every other endurance you´ll hit 5.11 this year alone 
well... not so simple really but as this is very movement dependant sport you really should concentrate on the main thing. hangboards are ok for sidekicks but that´s it.
cheers.
|
|
|
|
|
climbingaggie03
Sep 27, 2007, 3:40 PM
Post #10 of 33
(17223 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 18, 2004
Posts: 1173
|
One thing that helped me progress is trying to climb as statically as possible, I'm a pretty dynamic climber, but if you can do moves static then it builds strength and technique.
|
|
|
|
|
lyhlia
Sep 27, 2007, 4:00 PM
Post #11 of 33
(17202 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 27, 2007
Posts: 4
|
jto wrote: agreeing with sidepull and overlord. climb a lot and forget hangboards etc. for power. instead: - CLIMB for endurance (routes) - CLIMB for strength (boulders) - CLIMB for power (boulders) - CLIMB a lot! many times said in many threads but that´s the way. if you start climbing let´s say three times a week and every other workout you stress strength and every other endurance you´ll hit 5.11 this year alone well... not so simple really but as this is very movement dependant sport you really should concentrate on the main thing. hangboards are ok for sidekicks but that´s it. cheers.
I'm going to try this. I want to work on 10s for 2 months and begin to do 11s by November/December. :)
The push/drive for improvement is unrelenting.
Thanks!
|
|
|
|
|
drfelatio
Sep 27, 2007, 4:23 PM
Post #12 of 33
(17184 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 16, 2004
Posts: 475
|
lyhlia wrote: I'm having no trouble doing 5.9s, but am getting stuck on the 10's (indoors).
1.) When you're climbing 9s and lower, really focus on technique, especially your footwork. Try to climb smoothly and quietly, setting your feet down precisely where you want them and leaving them there. Most beginners don't pay attention to their feet. They stomp around and change foot positions constantly when instead they should be thinking about where they want their foot to go and just putting it there.
2.) You need to climb more 10s and not worry about failing. Getting stuck is ok; it gives you the opportunity to work on what you need to do to move on. If you want to climb harder, you have to be prepared to fail. If you want to push the limits of what you can do, then you have to climb routes that are at or above your limit.
|
|
|
|
|
jto
Sep 27, 2007, 4:23 PM
Post #13 of 33
(17183 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 18, 2004
Posts: 272
|
good luck. a sample program for three times per week climbing could be (do this for two months):
1:
bouldering, medium length (6-12 moves) problems.
concentrate on precise movement. try to climb a lot volume on different angles. do not concentrate on one project only.
one starting point could be to do four problems and four reps on each and go forward from there: meaning from 4x4x (put grade here) to 5x5x (put a bit higher grade here).
problems can be quite easyish in the beginning. the last reps might be very challenging or even failed. still try to move efficiently. what this really means is another long story, sorry.
2:
climb routes at or a little under your onsight level and here too try to get in a lot of volume. depending of your wall height you could aim from 10 to 20 routes per workout.
select different styles and here too concentrate on movement a lot. usually this means initiating movement from the knees or hips and not arms. a good pair of eyes is the best help for you here.
write down the average grade you can climb fluently and not totally pumping out in a workout and bit by bit try to move up on that figure. the main importance here is to get in a lot of quality movement and not the hardest routes you can do. an example progression: 10 x 5.9 -> 20x5.9+
it´s good if you can onsight the routes every time, but if not that´s not a big problem. when repeating a route another time try to climb it more fluently every time and perfect the economy of movement. do not rush but enjoy floating up the route.
to avoid getting used to a certain climbing style, occasionally climb faster or very slow etc.
3:
the same as workout 1. next week do two number 2´s and one number 1 and so on. to keep things interesting vary your routes as much as you can.
after this two month volume period it´s time to get serious and hit the higher grades. that means maybe
1: project day when you work the moves for your one or two 5.13´s
2: bouldering day where you hit a bit harder problems but not that much volume
3: anaerobic or basic endurance day per week depending on your successes on day one.
(This post was edited by jto on Sep 27, 2007, 4:36 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
rockguide
Sep 27, 2007, 4:28 PM
Post #14 of 33
(17176 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 8, 2004
Posts: 1359
|
jto wrote: agreeing with sidepull and overlord. climb a lot and forget hangboards etc. for power. instead: - CLIMB for endurance (routes) - CLIMB for strength (boulders) - CLIMB for power (boulders) - CLIMB a lot! many times said in many threads but that´s the way. if you start climbing let´s say three times a week and every other workout you stress strength and every other endurance you´ll hit 5.11 this year alone well... not so simple really but as this is very movement dependant sport you really should concentrate on the main thing. hangboards are ok for sidekicks but that´s it. cheers.
I agree fully.
Additionally - after you climb a route, repeat it (after resting if need be). Sometimes the first time you barely hang in there making decisions while you go. The second time you have a chance to learn the flow of the movement and internalize the decisions.
B
|
|
|
|
|
hyongx
Sep 28, 2007, 7:53 AM
Post #15 of 33
(17065 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 17, 2004
Posts: 209
|
climbingaggie03 wrote: One thing that helped me progress is trying to climb as statically as possible, I'm a pretty dynamic climber, but if you can do moves static then it builds strength and technique.
Zomg!! static climbers are teh badasszorz.
I only static cl9imbg. if tere is teh route that has a dinamick move in it, i lower off the top rope. haha, static all the way.
sometimez i tie weights to my body and climb reeeeeeeeely sloooow, like i pretend ima chameleon!!!!!
this makes me the aweszome klimbger. i am totallly OSing all the TR 5.9s in my gym.
yah.
|
|
|
|
|
overlord
Sep 28, 2007, 9:46 AM
Post #16 of 33
(17052 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 25, 2002
Posts: 14120
|
lyhlia wrote: Thank you. I will run out during lunch to grab a copy of Self Coached Climber. I was told that Performance Rock Climbing is good, but the book is outdated. Would you agree?
no, i do not agree. performance rock climbing (prc) is still a really good book IF you already know how to climb. its training advice is solid, as is the mental part. what it lacks (and what self coached climber (scc) excels in) is technique/movement training. and that is what is essential for a beginner. scc also offers some new excerises, especially in endurance and power endurance training (that prc does not), but i have found that some of power/strength excercises in prc suit me better.
all in all, scc is a much better book for a beginner than prc.
lyhlia wrote: Would you have any advice on how to find an experienced partner?
you would do best to check the local crag or gym. but how to spot someone who is 'experienced' is hard to tell over the internet. once you gather some experience, you will be able to tell the really experienced climbers from those who think they are.
climbingaggie03 wrote: One thing that helped me progress is trying to climb as statically as possible, I'm a pretty dynamic climber, but if you can do moves static then it builds strength and technique.
that is another piece of advice that you should ignore. next thing someone will suggest that you need three points of contact with rock at all times.
you need to learn what moves are best done staticly (and those are pretty rare) and when to use dynamic movement. pretty much all moves are easier if you do them dynamically. by dynamically i do not mean that you have to jump on every move, just that you create momentum which helps you reach the next hold, as opposed to slowly pulling on holds.
|
|
|
|
|
xtremst80
Sep 28, 2007, 12:55 PM
Post #17 of 33
(17022 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 24, 2006
Posts: 306
|
More climbing and less time on rc.com
|
|
|
|
|
dta95b7r
Sep 29, 2007, 1:32 AM
Post #18 of 33
(16929 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 20, 2007
Posts: 74
|
xtremst80 wrote: More climbing and less time on rc.com
|
|
|
|
|
gobennyjo
Sep 29, 2007, 3:02 AM
Post #19 of 33
(16883 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 8, 2007
Posts: 177
|
The Self Coached Climber really helped me when I first got it. Instead of trying to push harder grades, read the book, apply the techninqies, then master doing easier grades smoothly, then work your way up
|
|
|
|
|
jewels_vegas
Sep 30, 2007, 7:06 AM
Post #20 of 33
(16784 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 18, 2006
Posts: 18
|
lyhlia wrote: I started climbing in May. Prior to climbing, my idea of exercising was either shopping or walking around an art museum. Then I discovered rock climbing and have become marginally obsessed with it. I go to the gym about three or four times a week and I try to climb outside two or three times a month. I'm having no trouble doing 5.9s, but am getting stuck on the 10's (indoors). I've read books (Rock Climbing: Mastering Basic Skills by Craig Luebben, and Training for Climbing: The Definitive Guide to Improving Your Climbing Performance). How do I progress past these "tricky" 10s?
The first thing that I would do is ask myself what it is about these routes that are "tricky". Are your hands popping off of holds (strength/technique)? Are your feet popping off the holds (technique)? Do you get to places and just not know what to do (mental)? Do your arms and calves get pumped out before the rest of you (mental/endurance)? Do you trust your body enough to make the move?
Also, be patient. Get solid at 5.9. Get to the point where you can climb 5.9 inside and outside. You will learn a lot of technique climbing 5.9s that will equip you to climb 5.10s. I would also say stay away from the crosstraining. You are climbing enough days a week to get strong.
|
|
|
|
|
c22
Oct 11, 2007, 6:37 PM
Post #21 of 33
(16399 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 19, 2004
Posts: 195
|
get stronger
|
|
|
|
|
krusher4
Oct 11, 2007, 6:51 PM
Post #22 of 33
(16384 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 17, 2005
Posts: 997
|
Just climb as much as you can in as many places you can, with as many people as you can. Climb with less, be light. Get out of a gym.
|
|
|
|
|
slablizard
Oct 11, 2007, 7:11 PM
Post #23 of 33
(16360 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 13, 2003
Posts: 5558
|
Climb outdoor, teh gym is great to improve strenght, but not so great to learn how to climb better.
Outdoor you will be free to find your own foot placements, oppposed to stick with the tape in the gym
take a route you like ( out or in) and climb it until you can do it effortlessly, flowing trought the moves, then concentrate in making those move fluid and even elegant, moving your whole body in harmony better than deadpointing from hold to hold just to do the move.
don't focus too much on the grade, but on a route you like because of the moves. The progress will come naturally once you move better and your body learns better positions.
then you can start training specifically on a board for example, and do the same on harder routes.
lyhlia wrote: I started climbing in May. Prior to climbing, my idea of exercising was either shopping or walking around an art museum. Then I discovered rock climbing and have become marginally obsessed with it. I go to the gym about three or four times a week and I try to climb outside two or three times a month. I'm having no trouble doing 5.9s, but am getting stuck on the 10's (indoors). I've read books (Rock Climbing: Mastering Basic Skills by Craig Luebben, and Training for Climbing: The Definitive Guide to Improving Your Climbing Performance). How do I progress past these "tricky" 10s? |
|
|
|
|
pseudolith
Oct 11, 2007, 7:35 PM
Post #24 of 33
(16338 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 30, 2005
Posts: 96
|
Try the "quiet feet" drill. Climb some routes that are a few grades below your upper limit, but do so while trying to make as little noise with your feet as possible.
You also might try to climb some routes where you move off of holds EXACTLY how you grabbed/stepped onto them. i.e. no shifting the hands or feet around on a hold to try to get it in that "perfect" spot. Just plant the foot and move. Grab the hold and move. That may teach you to place your hands and feet more precisely, therefore minimizing the time and effort you spend groping around on holds.
Another thing to try is downclimbing. Once you get to the top, you're only halfway done. Reverse it and climb down, as well. Some easy routes can get pretty tricky when you do them in reverse. It's great for learning how to place your feet properly.
Here's another tip that may sound kind of wierd, but I'll try to explain it. Try not to climb "wedding march" style. You know how they tell brides to walk down the aisle: left-together-right-together-left-together-right-together, etc? I often find myself doing one move, getting balcned, doing the next move, getting balanced, etc. If you do that, a route becomes 20 single moves. If you can go from one move right into another, then you get a sesnse of flow that's more akin to taking regular steps.
|
|
|
|
|
chill41
Oct 11, 2007, 8:32 PM
Post #25 of 33
(16299 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 7, 2005
Posts: 88
|
In reply to: Try not to climb "wedding march" style. You know how they tell brides to walk down the aisle: left-together-right-together-left-together-right-together, etc? I often find myself doing one move, getting balcned, doing the next move, getting balanced, etc
This is some great advice and something I really need to work on myself. What I like to do is set up a TR on a route a grade or 2 below my limit and just run multiple laps in a row on it, at least 5 or 6, climbing as fast as I can without getting sloppy. After the first lap or 2 your movement becomes much more fluid and continuous. I'll usually start skipping unneeded holds, and sometimes am able to use smaller holds more efficiently because I only touch them for a fraction of a second.
I try and do this at the end of the day to make sure I go home really tired. This type of training is really great for getting you to move fast on harder steeper stuff. Plus it's just fun as hell!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
