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crimping_bum
Jan 30, 2008, 7:08 PM
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Just wanted to see which is the lesser of two evils in peoples opinions. Im from the SF Bay Area where burning one down is not considered evil at all. also, how many of you drink or smoke while climbing?, be it bouldering, sport, or trad. Before, after, during a climb? at all?
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wordless_chorus
Jan 30, 2008, 7:13 PM
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drinking and climbing does not mix
dont smoke and climb trad
other that go for the gold
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coastal_climber
Jan 30, 2008, 7:15 PM
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wordless_chorus wrote: drinking and climbing does not mix dont smoke and climb trad other that go for the gold
What he said.
You don't have to mix the two to have a good time.
>Cam
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majid_sabet
Jan 30, 2008, 7:15 PM
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IMO,new climbers love to smoke that sh*t while old schooler are getting pulled on DUI .
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Arrogant_Bastard
Jan 30, 2008, 7:16 PM
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Personally I prefer Evolv, but I do think 5.10 makes some good shooz too.
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crimping_bum
Jan 30, 2008, 7:23 PM
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coastal_climber wrote: wordless_chorus wrote: drinking and climbing does not mix dont smoke and climb trad other that go for the gold What he said. You don't have to mix the two to have a good time. >Cam
I agree. When you are impaired by any substance your performance, judgement, and clarity are all impaired. But many people still drink and smoke when they climb, especially true for bouldering, not so much sport and trad I guess. But it still happens.
My real question is when you see a climber doing one or the other, is it the smoking or the drinking that you hate (or love)?
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reno
Jan 30, 2008, 7:26 PM
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Moved to Campground.
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jgloporto
Jan 30, 2008, 7:29 PM
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Arrogant_Bastard wrote: Personally I prefer Evolv, but I do think 5.10 makes some good shooz too.
What he said.
You don't have to get free shooz to appreciate teh p0nt4sessez.
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yokese
Jan 30, 2008, 7:38 PM
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Hashish.
After climbing, by the campfire, with a beer, watching the night sky....
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thomasribiere
Jan 30, 2008, 7:41 PM
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depends on the moment and the people around me. Adaptation is the key-word.
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mjdoutdoors
Jan 30, 2008, 7:52 PM
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Marijuana is definitely better than alcohol. However, pot still has its negative effects (ie., concentration). I've been a pot smoker for many years and can say that one can still function at most skills at a high level while on marijuana compared to alcohol (ie., driving, physical activities like climbing, biking or skiing). However being straight is still preferred for the highest skill level at anything. The only thing alcohol improves is sociability, after that alcohol only makes you want to fight and kill people while driving. Smoking pot while climbing can be enjoyable only if you're in a safe situation like a top rope setup that has been checked and triple checked and has been climbed. Pot definitely can decrease focus and can lead to a deadly mistake if you don't stay super attentive. On site leading is not the time to be smoking pot. Don't even think about climbing while on alcohol. SMOKE POT CHECK YOUR KNOT!
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MikeSaint
Jan 30, 2008, 8:10 PM
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mjdoutdoors wrote: Marijuana is definitely better than alcohol. However, pot still has its negative effects (ie., concentration). I've been a pot smoker for many years and can say that one can still function at most skills at a high level while on marijuana compared to alcohol (ie., driving, physical activities like climbing, biking or skiing). However being straight is still preferred for the highest skill level at anything. The only thing alcohol improves is sociability, after that alcohol only makes you want to fight and kill people while driving. Smoking pot while climbing can be enjoyable only if you're in a safe situation like a top rope setup that has been checked and triple checked and has been climbed. Pot definitely can decrease focus and can lead to a deadly mistake if you don't stay super attentive. On site leading is not the time to be smoking pot. Don't even think about climbing while on alcohol. SMOKE POT CHECK YOUR KNOT!
Interesting. What do you base this upon?
(This post was edited by MikeSaint on Jan 30, 2008, 8:11 PM)
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krillen
Jan 30, 2008, 8:12 PM
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jgloporto wrote: Arrogant_Bastard wrote: Personally I prefer Evolv, but I do think 5.10 makes some good shooz too. What he said. You don't have to get free shooz to appreciate teh p0nt4sessez.
For me it's the other way around, the shape of the last better fits my foot. Especially if I use the search function to find the 500000000 posts that have beaten this topic into the ground.
(This post was edited by krillen on Jan 30, 2008, 8:17 PM)
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happiegrrrl
Jan 30, 2008, 8:12 PM
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I haven't had a smoke or drink for 11+ years, and the world is a better place for it. In moderation, neither is evil, in my opinion. But moderation is also pretty boring; again, in my opinion, and I am not prone to moderation.
When I started climbing I was adamant about the idea I'd never rope up with someone who did either(drink/smoke when climbing), but then the day came when I actually was about to rope up with a smoker and had to decide what I'd do.
I've had some really good days out with people who smoked while climbing. Their judgment and ability to focus was not impaired in any way that I could see. And, if I made a list of the top 10 favorite climbing partners I have had, all the smokers are it it.
As for drinking, I am less inclined, in theory, to want to climb with someone under the influence. But again....I have been put to the test and found that I can, indeed, have a good day out there.
That's not to say I don't discriminate, of course.
All the imbibers(pot or alcohol) I have climbed with have been hardcore climbers with many pitches under their belts. They are safe and competent.
They aren't the ones who get shit-faced, slurry drunk and piss themselves around the campfire at night. I would choose the drinker/smokers on the rope that I mentioned earlier ANY day over roping up with the one who got black-out blotto the night before and is now dragging with a hangover, but technically isn't under the influence.
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Arrogant_Bastard
Jan 30, 2008, 8:27 PM
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happiegrrrl wrote: I haven't had a smoke or drink for 11+ years, and the world is a better place for it. In moderation, neither is evil, in my opinion. But moderation is also pretty boring; again, in my opinion, and I am not prone to moderation. When I started climbing I was adamant about the idea I'd never rope up with someone who did either(drink/smoke when climbing), but then the day came when I actually was about to rope up with a smoker and had to decide what I'd do. I've had some really good days out with people who smoked while climbing. Their judgment and ability to focus was not impaired in any way that I could see. And, if I made a list of the top 10 favorite climbing partners I have had, all the smokers are it it. As for drinking, I am less inclined, in theory, to want to climb with someone under the influence. But again....I have been put to the test and found that I can, indeed, have a good day out there. That's not to say I don't discriminate, of course. All the imbibers(pot or alcohol) I have climbed with have been hardcore climbers with many pitches under their belts. They are safe and competent. They aren't the ones who get shit-faced, slurry drunk and piss themselves around the campfire at night. I would choose the drinker/smokers on the rope that I mentioned earlier ANY day over roping up with the one who got black-out blotto the night before and is now dragging with a hangover, but technically isn't under the influence.
Somebody is going to have to hand me a beer and a pipe if I'm to actually read this.
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carabiner96
Jan 30, 2008, 8:40 PM
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Arrogant_Bastard wrote: Somebody is going to have to hand me a beer and a pipe if I'm to actually read this.
oooh stup ur so meen.
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madriver
Jan 30, 2008, 9:08 PM
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In reply to: Just wanted to see which is the lesser of two evils in peoples opinions
...in terms of fact....ALCOHOL....bar nun...in terms of anything else.....heh...life is too short...evils win....take your pick....
love always
T. Chong
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MonkeyInTraining
Jan 30, 2008, 10:25 PM
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Drinking is for losers. Pot is for less of losers because at least it grows and animals will eat it. Beer is the piss of yeast, enjoy!
holds fan, awaits flying shit...
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Arrogant_Bastard
Jan 30, 2008, 11:01 PM
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MonkeyInTraining wrote: Drinking is for losers. Pot is for less of losers because at least it grows and animals will eat it. Beer is the piss of yeast, enjoy! holds fan, awaits flying shit...
Still can't buy alcohol yet huh?
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macherry
Jan 30, 2008, 11:20 PM
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Arrogant_Bastard wrote: MonkeyInTraining wrote: Drinking is for losers. Pot is for less of losers because at least it grows and animals will eat it. Beer is the piss of yeast, enjoy! holds fan, awaits flying shit... Still can't buy alcohol yet huh?
trophy
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bent_gate
Jan 30, 2008, 11:57 PM
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crimping_bum wrote: I agree. When you are impaired by any substance your performance, judgement, and clarity are all impaired. But many people still drink and smoke when they climb, especially true for bouldering, not so much sport and trad I guess. But it still happens. My real question is when you see a climber doing one or the other, is it the smoking or the drinking that you hate (or love)?
I don't see alcohol or pot (both the substance or the use) as evil. However I do see it as insidious.
I've lost more people than really needed to happen because of its existence/use/abuse. The thought of climbing itself not being good enough for someone is sad to me.
Post climbing some people can use the two in moderation. And some can't. Some I can tell will never have any problem. Some I can see are tetering on the edge. It's like watching someone you see walking around on a ledge that is not connected to the anchor. Usually they are going to be alright, but you'd feel better if they attached to a long sling. You'd wish they did, but also ultimately feel it's their choice.
There are a lot of people who become functional drinkers/smokers, that find they can function under the influence enough that they don't feel it is a problem.
But they all have one thing in common. They don't understand that, because of a difference in their brain. the same experiences that provide a level of lasting enjoyment and satisfaction for others, does not create the same amount for them.
Afterall, how do you really know if your brain is getting the same amount out of it as someone else? Here is one way to know. Climbing, even after many years, creates enough enjoyment alone that drinking or smoking won't add any significant additional enjoyment. And so, for that person, it doesn't even occur to do so.
Now if your pleasure center has lost some of it's functionality over time, it won't get the same level of enjoyment out of it. And some alcohol or pot can temporarily turn on all the functionality of the pleasure center so it can experience all of the enjoyment. In this situation the users pleasure center will finally feel "normal" even though other areas become affected negatively. (balance, judgment etc).
Usually the functionality of the pleasure center has decreased so slowly, over such a long time, that its diminished functionality is not noticed. Who can remember how they "felt" five years ago.
Yeah, you can survive without alcohol or pot. But your life is never as enjoyable as when your pleasure center is fully functional. And unless you want to live a life with little enjoyment, you are eventually going to have to use it to even temporarily feel a level of enjoyment of things that would be considered normal.
So what is the problem with regularly using it to feel normal. Mainly the damage it causes that makes the same condition worse, and the pleasure center eventually less and less functional.
So what if you could extract the component that makes the pleasure center fully functional, but doesn't impair the other parts of the brain, and doesn't make the condition worse over time?
Well they can. Sort of. It's legal drugs that have been tested that affect mainly just that area, but they don't cause damage or cancer years later. Why keep using a less effective drug? And depending how much pot or alcohol you are buying, it's likely to be cheaper. Yeah, it's not as glamorous, but would you rather be more functional or glamorous?
And yeah, it requires an office visit. As it does for Legal Pot. But why mess around with the stuff like an amateur.
If your pleasure center is fully functional, it doesn't make you happy. When you do something you like, you will feel enjoyment. When you do something you don't like, you won't feel enjoyment. But it needs to be fully functional for when you do something that you do like.
It's not something you want to mess around with in a non-professional manner. If you're using regularly, do yourself a favor and go to a doctor and check out the options. Why suffer needlessly.
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mjdoutdoors
Jan 31, 2008, 12:34 AM
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True alcohol does not make everybody want to fight,for me it me want to sleep. I base my opinion on the sciene at the bars here in wyoming. Cowboys and alcohol= fights every weekend. If those same people were smoking there wouldn't be those fights. These are only my observations as well as the opinions of many people I talk to. As for alcohol and driving, It's a deadly combination. The stats on this speak for themselves.
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reno
Jan 31, 2008, 2:12 AM
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mjdoutdoors wrote: True alcohol does not make everybody want to fight,for me it me want to sleep. I base my opinion on the sciene at the bars here in wyoming.
You haven't done any sheep ranching, have ya?
Just curious.
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GabeWalker
Jan 31, 2008, 2:57 AM
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mjdoutdoors wrote: True alcohol does not make everybody want to fight,for me it me want to sleep. I base my opinion on the sciene at the bars here in wyoming. Cowboys and alcohol= fights every weekend. If those same people were smoking there wouldn't be those fights. These are only my observations as well as the opinions of many people I talk to. As for alcohol and driving, It's a deadly combination. The stats on this speak for themselves.
Ya, but then they wouldn't be cowboys, they'd be dirty smelly hippies like Vermonters. Plus, fighting is fun, alcohol just makes it a little less painful that night.
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bent_gate
Jan 31, 2008, 3:40 AM
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mjdoutdoors wrote: True alcohol does not make everybody want to fight,for me it me want to sleep. I base my opinion on the sciene at the bars here in wyoming. Cowboys and alcohol= fights every weekend. If those same people were smoking there wouldn't be those fights. These are only my observations as well as the opinions of many people I talk to. As for alcohol and driving, It's a deadly combination. The stats on this speak for themselves.
I actually slightly disagree and have found there to be a more accurate formula:
Alcohol + Lack of Women = Fights
to a lesser degree, also:
Alcohol + Lack of Sports = Fights
And there are a couple of other factors. I am still working on the Grand Unifying Theory...
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