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tomcranks
Jan 1, 2003, 6:18 PM
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"Sport Climing is Neither" is the attitude of some. (So you don't have to think too hard, that means they don't consider it sport OR climbing.)
The greatest level of mental involvement comes with trad. Purists rightly consider it a denigration to change the nature of what made a route what it is. Consider the level of protection and the original experience of the first ascensionist. Respect the local area's ethics. Bring yourself up to the level of a climb; don't ruin its nature by bringing a climb down to your level.
If you're scared, stay home.
[ This Message was edited by: tomcranks on 2003-01-01 12:25 ]
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fitz
Jan 1, 2003, 7:03 PM
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Sport, trad, alpine, bouldering, etc. all stress different aspects of the sport. Having tried all of them, I'd have to say, 'try it before you trash it' to any self appointed purists or cutting edge rebels.
At the end of the day, they are all about having some fun and pushing some personal limits. Anyone who forgets that and starts taking things too seriously should really stop for a reality check.
My only complaint with the popularity of sport climbing and bouldering is that boom boxes, trash, amazing amounts of chalk, and some chipping and bolting practices can screw up access for everyone. Most of the world does not split hairs over equipment and techniques, all 'climbers', including scrambling morons who tumble to their deaths, are seen as one group.
If you are going to come outside, learn a little respect for nature, and the other people outside enjoying it. That goes for oldsters like me as well. Sport climbing and bouldering are here to stay, and loud public bolting wars, etc., just bring all climbing into the public's eye in a negative light.
-jjf
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crack_head
Jan 1, 2003, 7:17 PM
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hey why don't we ruin some more rock? lets bolt every %@#$ing route
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wildtrail
Jan 1, 2003, 7:40 PM
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http://www.rockclimbing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic=21611&forum=20&start=60
To answer the actual question.
Easy. There is a time and place for bolts. A bolted line in a system of cracks is stupid, but a bolted line in a system of nothing is needed. Hey, don't get me wrong. I'm typically against bolting and don't sport climb, but there IS a time and place for bolting. It's just a choice in what medium you climb. Some like sport, some like trad. In the end, it's all climbing and all climbers are good in my book. Which, is why I answered the original question the way I did (see link).
Steve
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easysteve
Jan 3, 2003, 12:58 PM
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New #1 stupidest all time thread.
New top 5 entry for stupidest user.
If you can't afford cams stop spending all your money on prAna beenies and girlie mags or (oh my god) suffice yourself with toproping that which you cannot lead (what a f*cking concept, eh?).
josh
I just have to say that was a pretty smart response from such a brilliant person there. Man, you don't know any of the people on here so don't make judgement calls on them. Who cares what other people have to say? I'm sorry, but is it your f*cking job to take care of everyone on this site? Damn mook.
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redpoint73
Jan 3, 2003, 1:08 PM
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I believe in minimal environmental impact. But maddie is right, there are worse issues than bolts (especially if an area is not overbolted). Have you thought about how much impact a hiking trail does? Especially when people are cutting switchbacks or widening to trail (to avoid rain puddles, etc.), killing more plants and increasing erosion. Plus, all the garbage/litter at outdoor areas (that is often cleanup up by climbers). I won't even get into ATV's or dirt bikes.
There is no such thing as causing "NO" environmental impact on a climbing area -- unless you stay at home. Things such as parking lots, hiking trails facilitate the enjoyment of outdoor areas. Bolts, when insatlled tastefully, do the same thing.
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pbjosh
Jan 3, 2003, 5:26 PM
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Quote:
I just have to say that was a pretty smart response from such a brilliant person there.
Then kindly heed your own advice (below) regarding judgement calls.
Quote:
Man, you don't know any of the people on here so don't make judgement calls on them.
I do know a lot of people on the site and I don't know even more of 'em. I will continue to make the judgement call that bolting cracks is idiotic. Unfortunately the original post was removed (which I JUDGE to be a lame feature - posts should live ad infinitum, ala rec.climbing, no matter what they contain). The original post was something to the tune of "why can't I bolt a crack to let everyone who can't afford cams climb it. trad climbers are rich/elitist" or some such. But I guess you missed that and are now making your judgement calls, ill-informed no less.
Quote:
Who cares what other people have to say? I'm sorry, but is it your f*cking job to take care of everyone on this site? Damn mook.
If you didn't care what other people had to say you wouldn't be here in the first place and you certainly wouldn't be responding to me. Is it your job to take care of me? Damn [sic] hypocrite.
josh
[ This Message was edited by: pbjosh on 2003-01-03 09:27 ]
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pbjosh
Jan 3, 2003, 6:15 PM
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Hey Jay,
It could be neither of us is terribly qualified to debate whether very hard sport climbing or very hard trad climbing is harder, heh Mike (Reardon)'s logic is my logic at the levels I climb at though. Be it a 5.9 fist crack in a weird corner with a squeeze chimney rest vs. a 5.9 face climb or a 5.12- tips disaster vs. a super thin 5.12- face climb vs. a 5.12- super steep cave problem, I have more problems working moves and figuring out the best strategies on cracks than faces of equal rating, and I spend more time crack climbing than face.
josh
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ClimbSoHigh
Jun 21, 2010, 4:33 PM
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Trad climbers diss sport climbers for many reasons, but mainly because trad climbers have the biggest ego's.
Also most trad climbers can easily climb sport safely, but sport climbers usually can not climb trad safely.
Sport climbers usually climb harder routes in terms of ratings/difficulty than trad climbers, which makes sense since placing pro takes more time than clipping bolts. (very few people are sending 5.14 trad while many people, even kids are sending 5.14 sport). This angers trad climbers and gets their ego kicking.
I for one used to be a sport climber with a little bit of ego, but now that i switched to trad, my ego is much bigger. I'm now one of those assholes showing off their rack to anyone who will look.
I guess the free soloists should be dissing everyone, but they are off doing their own thing, lol.
But in reality, we are all a bunch of idiots climbing rocks, making a much bigger deal about it than we should.
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mojomonkey
Jun 21, 2010, 4:48 PM
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ClimbSoHigh wrote: Trad climbers diss sport climbers for many reasons, but mainly because trad climbers have the biggest ego's. Also most trad climbers can easily climb sport safely, but sport climbers usually can not climb trad safely. Sport climbers usually climb harder routes in terms of ratings/difficulty than trad climbers, which makes sense since placing pro takes more time than clipping bolts. (very few people are sending 5.14 trad while many people, even kids are sending 5.14 sport). This angers trad climbers and gets their ego kicking. I for one used to be a sport climber with a little bit of ego, but now that i switched to trad, my ego is much bigger. I'm now one of those assholes showing off their rack to anyone who will look. I guess the free soloists should be dissing everyone, but they are off doing their own thing, lol. But in reality, we are all a bunch of idiots climbing rocks, making a much bigger deal about it than we should.
Hopefully that puts the issue to bed... for at least another 7+ years.
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rangerrob
Jun 21, 2010, 9:06 PM
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There is actually a really easy answer to this. Watch a video about some kid sending a hard 5.14 clip up. Then, watch a video about some obscure crazy Brit doing an FA on an 80' sea stack with two small brass wires for pro and a 50' run out to the top. When you realize which video makes you hold your breath and cringe in suspense....you'll have your answer.
RR
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rock_fencer
Jun 21, 2010, 9:31 PM
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the one with the taped hooks is even better!! cant remember which film, but man that was crazy stuff
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angry
Jun 21, 2010, 10:29 PM
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Nike, Air Jordon, Miley Cyrus, Prana great prices click here. Love me, touch me, console my asshole, www.dickeaterfrenzy.ca marky mark
Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck.
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tradmanclimbs
Jun 21, 2010, 10:44 PM
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Most of the really solid climbers that i know do both.
the biggest problem with spurt climbing is that for the most part you are limited to 1/2 pitch climbs at crowded venues. lots of stuff out there that you simple can not get up with just a sport rack and the sport skills even if you have big 5.13 guns. The climbers who can crank big numbers at the spurt wall, lead big trad climbs and hike 5+ ice like its easy are the ones who get my respect. If all you do it spurt climb or boulder you may be strong but there are a ton of places you will never get to experience. YMMV
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jakedatc
Jun 21, 2010, 10:54 PM
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tradmanclimbs wrote: Most of the really solid climbers that i know do both. the biggest problem with spurt climbing is that for the most part you are limited to 1/2 pitch climbs at crowded venues. lots of stuff out there that you simple can not get up with just a sport rack and the sport skills even if you have big 5.13 guns. The climbers who can crank big numbers at the spurt wall, lead big trad climbs and hike 5+ ice like its easy are the ones who get my respect. If all you do it spurt climb or boulder you may be strong but there are a ton of places you will never get to experience. YMMV
And there are sport areas where 5.6 trad climbers can't even dream about the warm up.. ie Rifle, Ceuse, most of RRG, etc
And trad i will keep telling you that if you worry about the crowds at rumney then you either don't climb hard enough or your knowledge of the area is limited. The gunks, cathedral, whitehorse are just as crowded
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drector
Jun 21, 2010, 10:58 PM
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Don't place bolts next to seven year old threads. The thread should only be done in the style of the OP and that style needs to be respected.
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tradmanclimbs
Jun 22, 2010, 11:52 AM
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Jake maby you misinterpreted my post. I respect the heck out out of sport climbers who can do more than just sport climb. on the same note I don't have much respect for weak tradclimbers who diss sport climbing. My usual response when they get on their rant about how bad Rumny is, is to tell them, Rumny is great! You can get super strong there.
Sport climbings biggest drawback is is if you don't diversify you usually can't get up any of the major rock formations and are left to wank arround getting super strong on little rocks.
If you can't climb 5.13 sport you miss out on on a bunch of 30m climbs. If you climb 5.13 sport but don't have the skills to get up 5.10 trad you miss out on all the super cool desert towers, all the major cliffs and pretty much anything that is not bolted or a boulder problem.
Of course the 5.13 sport climber is going to have a super short learning curve if they choose to open their horizions and start climbing larger unbolted formations. Guys/gals who have a trad background and have migrated to sport are a different story. If they see somthing cool that is not bolted they have the skills to climb it if they choose.
I guess I don't respect small minded people even if they are super strong.
At the end of the day if I had to choose between not getting off the ground at Rifel and not being able to get up the Diamond or Devils Tower I am quite certain that I would be missing a whole lot less by skipping Rifle!
Spot climbing is awsome. its fun and it gets you strong but if you get hung up on being a sport climber instead of just a climber you have severly limited yourself.
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camhead
Jun 22, 2010, 1:07 PM
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Ok, this thread is very old, and I just re-read some of my posts from nearly eight years ago there... my views have modified slightly.
You may not think it, but in my anecdotal experience, I have actually seen WAY more gumbies who don't know what they are doing climbing trad than climbing sport.
I think that the reason is this: to climb sport anywhere, you need to, at the very minimum, be able to do 5.8 moves. Believe it or not, this keeps quite a few people away. Oppose this with trad at a place like the Gunks, where you have completely out of shape, sketchy leaders who can seek out and climb a fricking 5.2.
Ironically enough, trad is more accessible to people who have no business on the rock.
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jakedatc
Jun 22, 2010, 1:18 PM
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tradmanclimbs wrote: Jake maby you misinterpreted my post. I respect the heck out out of sport climbers who can do more than just sport climb. on the same note I don't have much respect for weak tradclimbers who diss sport climbing. My usual response when they get on their rant about how bad Rumny is, is to tell them, Rumny is great! You can get super strong there. Sport climbings biggest drawback is is if you don't diversify you usually can't get up any of the major rock formations and are left to wank arround getting super strong on little rocks. If you can't climb 5.13 sport you miss out on on a bunch of 30m climbs. If you climb 5.13 sport but don't have the skills to get up 5.10 trad you miss out on all the super cool desert towers, all the major cliffs and pretty much anything that is not bolted or a boulder problem. Of course the 5.13 sport climber is going to have a super short learning curve if they choose to open their horizions and start climbing larger unbolted formations. Guys/gals who have a trad background and have migrated to sport are a different story. If they see somthing cool that is not bolted they have the skills to climb it if they choose. I guess I don't respect small minded people even if they are super strong. At the end of the day if I had to choose between not getting off the ground at Rifel and not being able to get up the Diamond or Devils Tower I am quite certain that I would be missing a whole lot less by skipping Rifle! Spot climbing is awsome. its fun and it gets you strong but if you get hung up on being a sport climber instead of just a climber you have severly limited yourself.
gotcha.. I think that a lot of people assume that because someone sport climbs that they don't do anything else.
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bradley3297
Jun 22, 2010, 1:29 PM
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OMG let this 8 year old thread die.
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tradmanclimbs
Jun 22, 2010, 4:25 PM
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My screen name is got to be over 10 years old. ASnyone who defines themselfs rigidly as a trad climber,sport climber ,boulder etc is just limiting themselfs to a narow minded existance.
I am just a climber.
You think Tommy caldwell would be even a 10th as cool as he is if he was just one of the best sport climbers in the world? Hell no! He is 1,000 times cooler than a David Grahm because he is one of the best CLIMBERS in the world.
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the_climber
Jun 22, 2010, 6:46 PM
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It used to be just "Climbing".... You climbed "Rock" in summer, and "Snow/Ice" in winter. It was all practice for Alpine (Mountaineering).
Now we have "Gym Climbing", "Bouldering", "Sport Climbing", "wanking", "Posing", ...
Some of us "Climb" while others have to qualify what they do with subcategories.
Oh, and Sport Climbing is neither.
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petsfed
Jun 22, 2010, 6:55 PM
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camhead wrote: I think that the reason is this: to climb sport anywhere, you need to, at the very minimum, be able to do 5.8 moves. Believe it or not, this keeps quite a few people away. Oppose this with trad at a place like the Gunks, where you have completely out of shape, sketchy leaders who can seek out and climb a fricking 5.2. Ironically enough, trad is more accessible to people who have no business on the rock.
This is true. If you want to avoid waiting in line, for the most part just climb harder than the median ability frequenting the area. In some places, that means 5.9. In other places, (Rifle for instance) that means 5.13.
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karmiclimber
Jun 22, 2010, 7:00 PM
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ClimbSoHigh wrote: Trad climbers diss sport climbers for many reasons, but mainly because trad climbers have the biggest ego's. Also most trad climbers can easily climb sport safely, but sport climbers usually can not climb trad safely. Sport climbers usually climb harder routes in terms of ratings/difficulty than trad climbers, which makes sense since placing pro takes more time than clipping bolts. (very few people are sending 5.14 trad while many people, even kids are sending 5.14 sport). This angers trad climbers and gets their ego kicking. I for one used to be a sport climber with a little bit of ego, but now that i switched to trad, my ego is much bigger. I'm now one of those assholes showing off their rack to anyone who will look. I guess the free soloists should be dissing everyone, but they are off doing their own thing, lol. But in reality, we are all a bunch of idiots climbing rocks, making a much bigger deal about it than we should.
I'm so 3008. You so 2000 and late.
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