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enigma
Mar 6, 2003, 7:14 AM
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Think about it you have a rack it has hexes,stoppers,cams,tricams,aliens and different pieces of gear. Its large, Its small it has to be fit in,and pulled out of cracks in the rock.
Additionally the pieces and the rock can be suspect,if you fall they can zipper out. Still somehow theres something about trad climbing,especially leading that draws you in. So what seduces you to do trad climbing??
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Is it empowerment that you feel?? Starting the ground up and having to place all the pieces is scary,(but draws me in.) :idea:
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asaph
Mar 6, 2003, 7:24 AM
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I havent climbed any trad yet. Still looking for a teacher but I've already been buying some passive gear to go practice. The allure for me, not having climbed yet, is the subjectivity of it all. You climb a route and place your gear where you deem it necessary and good. You dont even really have to climb a route... you can go on a hike, see a cool formation and go climb it! That's why I want to climb trad, anyhow... so I can be free of the restrictions of pre-placed protection.
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alpnclmbr1
Mar 6, 2003, 7:28 AM
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In trad climbing there is less thinking and less trying and more climbing. Plus you’re often doing it in a more pristine natural environment without the crowds and noise of a sport climbing area. The route finding aspect is also appealing, you get to decide where to go and whether it is the right way to go which makes it feel more like exploration. The views tend to be a lot nicer, and you often get to summit a real formation. A climbing partner on a trad climb is a real friend, often more so then on a sport climb.
nice topic
d.
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w6jxm
Mar 6, 2003, 2:32 PM
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Me; rock; pro; climb; self-preservation.
These together make trad so aluring.
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climblouisiana
Mar 6, 2003, 2:45 PM
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You can get to some really cool places that wouldn't otherwise be possible without having gear placing ability.
You can typically choose the type of route to do based on your ability. ie. Well protected climb with solid rock, sparsely protected with loose rock, protectionless with great rock, etc.
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c_kryll
Mar 6, 2003, 3:53 PM
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"The seduction of Trad climbing"...I like it :D Good topic. For me its the mental game, the idea that it's Chess on the wall. That the climbing can be as challanging like sport climbing, the moves can even be as dynamic or gymnastic as you want just like bouldering, but it's the total combination of those things and the mental problem solving required to place gear and to do so in a safe, effeceint, and effective manner. When climbing sport or bouldering you don't have to worry about rope drag, you don't have to worry about route finding, or building a bombproof anchor to bring your partner up. Trad climbing for me is a total accumilation of climbing skills, more so then any other aspect of climbing except maybe Mixed Ice without bolt protection. The Trad climber is the general specialist of climbing in that they don't need the super strong fingers of a boulderer or the powerfull but light frame of a sport climber or the technical expertise of a Aid Climber. What they need is an excellent uderstanding of each of the other disciplines ie. the boulderer's ability to link very short but extremely hard moves, the sport climbers ability to move gracefully up the wall conserving energy and strength for crux moves and the aid climbers understanding of the rock and protection. It is all these things and more that makes Trad climbing the seduction it is for me.
Chris
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darkside
Mar 6, 2003, 4:13 PM
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Ahh it appears Chris has his finger on the pulse of the dark side, an understanding of the mind games we play in trad, the darker side.
In reply to: If sport is ten times more dangerous than TR, then trad is ten times more dangerous than sport
.....and yet it is not the danger, but the knowledge that experience, skill, and a little bloody mindedness will keep me safe from the dark side.
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cracklover
Mar 6, 2003, 4:25 PM
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It's totally subjective, and I clip bolts, too, but... To me, trad climbing feels like real climbing, plain and simple. Clipping bolts is like bowling - somebody else set up the pins, and I get the thrill of knocking them down. No sense of adventure, no sense of self reliance, of routefinding, or of working with what the mountain gives you. I've had a lot of fun sport climbing, but nothing even resembling one of those "real" climbing experiences I've had while out on the sharp end of a long and scary trad lead.
GO
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tanner
Mar 6, 2003, 5:05 PM
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Trad climbing is so relaxing and peaceful.
untill You get all pumped and run out in the crux when you realize the only cam you had to prtect the next 20ft you used already. Then Its a mental game.. And some times its really scary!!!!
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shortfatoldguy
Mar 6, 2003, 5:16 PM
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When I finish a sport lead, I think, "Cool, I did it."
When I finish a trad lead, I think, "Cool, I'm still alive."
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vegastradguy
Mar 6, 2003, 5:33 PM
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The allure of trad? Simple--- for the adventure. Have yet to climb trad and not have an adventure of some sort......
that, and there's nothin like being 20 feet above a #2 stopper and seeing your next piece 10 feet away. :shock:
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cracklover
Mar 6, 2003, 5:37 PM
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Maybe it would be different if I lived in an area with long multipitch sport lines like Potrero Chico or Red Rocks, but... When I'm a couple pitches up, I've just finished leading a nice line, set up a solid anchor on a good ledge, and get to enjoy the simple glow of looking out over the open air while I belay my partner up. It's so peaceful and quiet, and beautiful. It just makes me happy. That's one thing about trad leading that keeps me coming back for more.
GO
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bighigaz
Mar 6, 2003, 6:08 PM
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Enigma, you really hit the nail on the head with this post. I love it!
Trad climbing, any climbing for that matter, has got to be the most physically, spiritually, and emotionally rewarding sport in existence. But there is much more to it than that.
Trad climbing carries with it a special bonus. GEAR, GEAR, GEAR. I love all that gear dangling from my slings and harness... it makes me feel like I can do anything. I feel like a Christmas tree with a bunch of amazing "ornaments" hanging all over the place.
I love the sound, the clanking, the click of a caribiner on your harness, or even better, the click when your rope drops in to a solid piece of gear. Suddenly it makes you feel lighter than you where before you made the clip. Then there's the unique sound of a couple of tiblocs tapping together, which I sometimes carry just for the soothing chime they make.
And nothing is so amazing as finding the perfect spot for a piece of gear, and feeling it sink in so solid it makes you shiver with delight. Then you yell and curse like a 2-year old when it gets stuck, and the thought of leaving it behind only makes you angrier. Of course, 2 pitches later you find "BOOTY" and you can't resist trying to get it. If you do, and you don't climb on it, then it will be hanging from your rear view mirror or your keychaing for the next couple of months!
Oh, and who can say some bystander hasn't stared at your rack like you're either completely insane, or some sort of god. Then they occasionally ask silly questions like, "goin' skiing?!" And you just answer "yes" while your insides errupt with laughter.
And nothing makes me grin more than seeing a couple of dedicated sport climbers watch me take out my rack. They suddenly think your some sort of balsy genius. I know, because that's what I thought of every person I saw pulling a rack out of their pack, when I had but a few measly quickdraws.
Perhaps the best part, besides the GEAR, GEAR, and more GEAR, is the fact that that gear allows you to explore some of the most remote backcountry wilderness in the country, thus allowing you to have those physical, spiritual, and mental epics of learning and adventure.
Here's a quote I took from the SoAZ backcountry climbing guide:
http://www.angelfire.com/rock3/climbers/Quotes/March.html
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camhead
Mar 6, 2003, 6:17 PM
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"seduction?" seduction?
I don't know if I'd use that term, although I have completed a few trad climbs feeling totally violated.
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mikedano
Mar 6, 2003, 6:21 PM
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I think what I like the most is the asthetic, clean aspect to it. It's just you and the rock and how smart and strong you are.
It's like backpacking--you've got everything you're going to need right on your back, and all you need is the smarts to use it. With trad, it's just you and gear and a crack and nothing else. And you leave it just like you found it. The whole process of racking up, climbing and coming down--and all just using a few bits of metal with springs--is all very satisfying.
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elvislegs
Mar 6, 2003, 6:39 PM
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It's hard for me to put my finger on it. But I think there are a few aspects that appeal to me particularly.
I like climbing in the mountains more than anything so that's a big part of it. I like the adventure aspect.
I also find it a little bit more environmentally sound, but that's not really part of the allure, just more of a fringe benefit.
Mainly though I think it just feels a little more challenging knowing that I am protecting MYSELF, and it's all on me :? . It's the challenge I guesse.
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antimatter
Mar 6, 2003, 6:41 PM
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FOTH: It's all part of the "Freedom of the Hills." With a rack & maybe some tools you can literally go most ANYWHERE in the Mountains you like. Of course, some skills may be needed as well! Mmm, freedom is very seductive.
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alpnclmbr1
Mar 6, 2003, 7:09 PM
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Shakylegs,
I’m quite sure, most of the time I am doing trad I am simul climbing and the gear is strictly a safety back up, I don’t really worry about it failing or even falling on it. I never do anymore.(that doesn’t mean I don’t place solid gear) That is the side of trad that I consider seductive. There are other forms of trad such as Indian Creek, but that is sport climbing with trad gear. Or J-Tree which is more like soloing with a rope on. I guess climbing at the Needles approaches what you are describing, but that is cragging. As far as being mentally tired at the end of a long multi-pitch, I would call it being mentally refreshed with a well earned physical tiredness. Perfect routes for this kind of climbing: West Ridge of Mt. Conness for solo or simul and the East Buttress of Middle Cathedral for speed simul.
For me this stuff is the seduction of climbing itself.
d.
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alpinerockfiend
Mar 6, 2003, 7:39 PM
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I believe that carrying minimal gear intensifies the experience and makes it more meaningful(not exactly an original philosophy, but a valid one). Trad climbing, especially FAs on long alpine routes, is the embodiment of the less gear=more meaning philosophy, as you can choose what to carry looking up at the climb from the ground. Climbing, in any form, is sort of like tapping into an immense reserve of absolute truth for the duration of time on the rock. And climbing is just one of the many ways you can choose to find truth through the natural world.
Everyone's posts were excellent, and this was a really high quality topic.
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elvislegs
Mar 6, 2003, 7:56 PM
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In reply to: I believe that carrying minimal gear intensifies the experience and makes it more meaningful
Are we talking about the climbing now or the coital bliss thing???
I'm so confused. :?
Shakylegs, you kill me dude. :lol:
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crack_head
Mar 6, 2003, 8:51 PM
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i dont know i think its the idea that you can just climb. There dosn't have to be a bold every four feet four you to climb, it has more dimensions than sport. I think that knowing when you see a cool line you can just do it, it dosn't matter if somone has done it before you or bolted it on anything, your free to climb whatever.
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beckerw
Mar 6, 2003, 11:54 PM
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trad is wonderful...there are many aspects to it. you can climb straight in cracks or sometimes the crack is merely where the protection goes. you can go craggin or have an alpine vista to yourself and buddy.
i think the control is what appeals to me.
you must not only have control of your body, but control your mind. It is lees likely to be a ladder to some anchors. you have to squelch fear when it nips at your feet. the beauty is you can place gear whenever you want. unlike sport climbing where a bolt is placed for some NBA player. You use your mind more: routefinding, setting anchors, figuring out if you need to bail of a mountain.
all that said, the toys are frickin' cool :D !
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jerrygarcia
Mar 7, 2003, 12:01 AM
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Trad climbing is about being free, Being outside and enjoying life.
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crackaddict
Mar 7, 2003, 12:30 AM
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:twisted: Man that Jackalope looks evil!
Sport climbing is just like solving a puzzle but,
multi pitch Trad climbing is more like going on an spotaneous trip to a place you have never been. You go into the unknown withe the skills that you posess. Not knowing what the outcome may be but, you know that you have prepared for this journey. Armed and ready you head into the unknown.
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farmerc
Mar 7, 2003, 1:01 AM
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Because a big rack really turns me on!! :wink:
~Chris
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