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phaedrus
Mar 8, 2005, 8:43 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Look at some staticstics. I think you, if your a safe climber, are more likely to get killed during the drive to the crag than actually at the crag. Got any stats for climbers? What you say may be true for the general population, but for the climber population? Dunno...be interesting to find out.
I do. Had to do some injury statistics research before I could get my climbing team together where I work. A 1999 statistics from the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission, National Electronic Injury Surveillance System rated 12 sports that kids are most likely to do and their injury levels. Climbing ranked 12th. May not apply to this situation, but it demonstrates my point. Check this thread, too: http://www.rockclimbing.com/...1843&p=881184#881184
Todd
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moondog
Mar 8, 2005, 9:10 PM
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In reply to: I do. Had to do some injury statistics research before I could get my climbing team together where I work.
Todd, thanks for the links. i am looking for stats drawn only from the committed climbing pop. as opposed to the general pop. A lot of folks seem to think a climber is more likely to die from a car wreck than climbing, but the stats used to support this are usually drawn from the general pop. Kinda rusty on stats, but this doesn't seem a valid support for the argument. Maybe it's valid when the climber is just "starting out" (i.e. still a member of the general pop.) but as commitment deepens, wouldn't that alter the picture a bit?
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crackrn
Mar 9, 2005, 2:34 AM
Post #128 of 143
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In reply to: You've obviously adopted the female gendered version of your boyfriend's online identity. You're a co-dependent person, your opinion is biased toward other's achieving a similarly neurotic relationship. Sorry, but your optimism sounded pathological to me and reading your profile only confirmed it.
Gosh, and I just thought it was cute (all right, sickening but still!). My mistake. And I really am that optimistic. I'm pretty sure it's not pathological but if it is, again, I like my view of people much better than yours.
I'm not sure why I came under your fire...?
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wa_hoo
Mar 9, 2005, 4:18 AM
Post #129 of 143
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I'll add another vote of experience to the "she has to love you for who you are, and if you give up climbing, you aren't being you". You have to be real and she has to take you that way.
Compromise to a point is reasonable, losing yourself is a prescription for divorce and resentment. :(
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adnix
Mar 9, 2005, 3:24 PM
Post #130 of 143
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In reply to: I don't know what type of climber you are but unless you're doing some serious routes, she needs to get a grip.
Freney pillar is graded ED-. If it starts snowing while on the route, there's no easy way out. The bottom of the route is capped by a 50 degree glacier slope which becomes a deathly avalanche trap. And the top part has the hard climbing (5.9/A1) at an altitude of 4500m. Estimated time is about 11-13 hours from the bottom of the pillar to the top of Mont Blanc.
Walker spur on Jorasses is graded ED-. It can be done in a day but most parties bivy at least once during the round trip. 1200m of mixed climbing (5.9 rock) and guide book time of 12-15 hours. The route has seen many epic retreats and some parties have been pinned down by the storms for good. Rock fall is rather frequent on the lower parts but retreat is easier than that of Freney pillar.
The other routes he has mentioned are alpine stuff, too.
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nikegirl
Mar 9, 2005, 3:31 PM
Post #131 of 143
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lack of understanding, and support of my climbing...
was my final straw.
I divorced.
I am a climber.
time off,like now, and I'm still a climber
it's in me...it's not possible to turn it away.
sorry you are in this situation.
~T
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montaniero
Mar 9, 2005, 7:06 PM
Post #132 of 143
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:shock: 9 pages of girlfriend!!! :shock:
This lady must feel great that we concern so much..but at least some good climbing question arise from all this:
In reply to: Walker spur on Jorasses is graded ED-. It can be done in a day but most parties bivy at least once during the round trip. 1200m of mixed climbing (5.9 rock) and guide book time of 12-15 hours. The route has seen many epic retreats and some parties have been pinned down by the storms for good. Rock fall is rather frequent on the lower parts but retreat is easier than that of Freney pillar.
What is that guide book that cites 12-15 hrs. for the Walker? My guide book is more towards 16-20 hrs. from hut to top. 12 hours have to be a all-goes-smoothly superfast climb. I know Christophe Profit did in something like 7-8 hrs (though base to top only, chopper waiting on the summit to take him to Matterhorn).
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cygstarz
Mar 9, 2005, 10:53 PM
Post #133 of 143
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In reply to: In reply to: Help me out with this... she loves you for who you are but wants to change you? Read his post again. She DOESN'T want to change him. In fact, she doesn't want to change him so much, she's willing to leave him so he can keep his passion. In reply to: ...If she isn't dating you and you die climbing it'll somehow be easier for her? If that's the case then she doesn't love you. OMG...not the case at all. If they were to break up and he died, she would still be devastated. But if he died (how macabre is this?) a year after they broke up it would be a different loss than if she had kissed him goodbye that morning. Still a huge loss but not as acute. For whatever reason, she can't get over the feeling she is going to lose him. So she's protecting herself the only way she knows how. She didn't say it's me or climbing. She said, I know it's climbing...therefore it can't be me. Big difference.
Good points but as much speculation as were mine. I will say I like your optimistic approach more than my jaded view, but I'm rapidly approaching 40 years of well established cynicism and it's a hard habit to break. More precisely, I've been down this road a couple times and I've learned from past mistakes.
There's nothing wrong with not liking what your SO is into. In fact, there's nothing wrong with being so vehemently opposed to it that the only way to cope is to move on. It's only when you try to make that person conform to your views rather than finding a middle-ground you can both live with that I find fault.
You say she isn't trying to change him. The evidence (and we're both going off a one-sided story here so take both our opinions with a grain of salt) is that she IS trying to change him because it seems that each of the 3 times he's made concessions to sacrifice climbing, she has stayed with him. So when he bends to her will/desire/anxiety/fears...etc... she reinforces "good" behavior by staying with him. As long as he is doing what she wants, she sticks around.
Don't get me wrong, I don't know that her actions are intentionally selfish. She has a legitimate fear. My advice, from personal experience, is that he move on as she suggested IF climbing is truly that big a part of his life. Because I don't think it'll stop here. I do believe there is a bigger issue and I am of the opinion (right or wrong) that this would just be the beginning of more events like this down the road with different subject-matter as the point of focus. I've been in this kind of relationship before and I've learned and grown from it. My wife of 7 years is a mature woman who is my equal. Sometimes I get what I want, sometimes she gets what she wants, but NEVER do either of us win at the expense of the other. In other words, neither of us would ever dream of requiring the other give up something as deeply rooted as this man's obvious desire to climb.
I'm glad you are a romantic and I respect your opinion. Mine differs. I think, conciously or unconciously, that she is controlling and she is using his love for her as a lever to break him away from his other love. I hope, however, that I am wrong and you are right. I guess the romantic in me isn't entirely dead... just taking a nap.
No time to spellcheck. Must fight traffic. Thanks for the view of the other side of things, Crackrn.
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adnix
Mar 9, 2005, 11:13 PM
Post #134 of 143
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In reply to: What is that guide book that cites 12-15 hrs. for the Walker? My guide book is more towards 16-20 hrs. from hut to top. 12 hours have to be a all-goes-smoothly superfast climb. I know Christophe Profit did in something like 7-8 hrs (though base to top only, chopper waiting on the summit to take him to Matterhorn).
"Contrary to what you might imagine, the Walker Spur is not a true N Face. If you can keep to fast time (to do the route in a day), then you can spend a fair time climbing in the sunshine. In fact, at the start the route takes the left side of the pillar, that is the E side; then it goes up most often on the right; except at the top, and so is exposed to the setting sun."
"There are several bivouac sites, particularly between 3900 and 4000m on the ridge. But now it is usual, given the number of pitons in place, to finish at the summit in the day. Watch out for stonefall in dry years"
But now that you mentioned, we can discuss Christophe Profit too. He did 5 hour solo in winter for the Croz spur (1,000m, TD+/ED-). At the same go he did Eiger 1938 route (ED, 1800m) in twelve or so hours and finished with North Face of Matterhorn (TD+, 1200m) in 5 hours. On Eiger his headlamp ran out of battery and he had to wait for 3 hours till the sun came back. All in all the thing took him 42h including helicopter linkages. Two years earlier (1985) he had done a summer link of the same trilogy in 24h.
That's about 4000 meters of technical climbing... talk about endurance. The same guy has soloed American Direct (ED, 1000m, 5.11) in 3 hours 10 minutes. The route is rather sustained since it's almost vertical.
Some good links:
http://www.bettercamper.com/...nk.pl/mountain_id/83
http://www.aqvi55.dsl.pipex.com/climb/top_ten.htm
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esljunkie34
Mar 9, 2005, 11:55 PM
Post #135 of 143
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if u look at it, it really just comes down to this:
who will ALWAYS be there for u?
the ROCK.
who would NEVER hit u?
the ROCK.
... u know now what u have to do.
:lol:
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montaniero
Mar 10, 2005, 3:58 AM
Post #136 of 143
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In reply to: At the same go he did Eiger 1938 route (ED, 1800m) in twelve or so hours (because)....his headlamp ran out of battery and he had to wait for 3 hours till the sun came back.
That seems to be right: 12 hours is too long to climb the Eiger Nordwand!!!! :shock:
Thanks for the reply about the guide book and the links, I'll check them out.
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crackrn
Mar 10, 2005, 4:33 AM
Post #137 of 143
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In reply to: ...Sometimes I get what I want, sometimes she gets what she wants, but NEVER do either of us win at the expense of the other. In other words, neither of us would ever dream of requiring the other give up something as deeply rooted as this man's obvious desire to climb.
That's the crux right there. And that's why, despite my vociferous defense of the GF that I think they probably won't make it. They seem to have fundamental differences that go beyond the climbing (she likes to be home, vs. his love of being outdoors, camping/climbing etc.). But, yeah, noone should ever get their way at the expense of their loved ones'.
In reply to: ...I'm glad you are a romantic and I respect your opinion. Mine differs. I think, conciously or unconciously, that she is controlling and she is using his love for her as a lever to break him away from his other love. I hope, however, that I am wrong and you are right. I guess the romantic in me isn't entirely dead... just taking a nap. No time to spellcheck. Must fight traffic. Thanks for the view of the other side of things, Crackrn.
You're welcome. Thanks for not ascribing other motives to my posts. :)
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adnix
Mar 10, 2005, 8:02 AM
Post #138 of 143
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In reply to: That seems to be right: 12 hours is too long to climb the Eiger Nordwand!!!! :shock:
In reply to: So Christoph, how did your speed ascent of the Eiger come about... By chance. On Saturday 23 March I was in Switzerland, ski mountaineering with a friend of mine, Konrad Renzler on Tödi (3.614m). The mountain is extremely beautiful and the highest in the Glaner Alps. But we didn't know what to do on Sunday... This wasn't your first time on the North Face No, I had climbed it 14 years ago, in March 1989. Together with Engelbert Pallhuber we wanted to climb the route in a day, but we got caught up in the first hard crack system for almost three hours, then the Exit Cracks where we climbed too far to the right, and were forced to spend an uncomfortable night bivying. Light… what did you take with you? A waterbottle, a bivy bag, a 40m kevlar rope, 2 screwgate carabiners , 2 ice axes and a set of crampons. http://www.planetmountain.com/...ecial/people/CHainz/ |
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xiang49
Mar 10, 2005, 3:55 PM
Post #139 of 143
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u know what, i've been in your situation be4, and i think that it shouldn't be so serios 4 u to take it. Every gals will like their bf 2 be with them, care 4 them, etc...it doesn;t mean that if u quit climbing now n she will not worry about u 4 anything...
her confidence is actually from u, try 2 invite her (n her best friends) 2 join u for a climb. explain 2 her how safety this activity is n ask her 2 have a try. last but not least, try 2 spend more time with her after your climb, let her know that even u like clmibing so much, u will still give her 102% of caring..
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gottarock
Mar 10, 2005, 4:29 PM
Post #140 of 143
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Registered: May 4, 2004
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whatcha gonna do?
Compromise OR compromise yourself?
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montaniero
Mar 10, 2005, 8:51 PM
Post #141 of 143
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"A waterbottle, a bivy bag, a 40m kevlar rope, 2 screwgate carabiners , 2 ice axes and a set of crampons."
Kevlar rope? That's weird, never heard of kevlar used in climbing ropes. It is very much used in sailing, but I believe that due to abrasion resistance issues not very much used in climbing....
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lizard0fthetrail
Mar 10, 2005, 8:58 PM
Post #142 of 143
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Registered: Jul 22, 2004
Posts: 133
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Numbers are not letters.
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