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rockbiter
Mar 11, 2005, 3:04 AM
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So I was having a friendly chat with a friend the other day and the dirtbag lifestyle came up. Before I knew it, said friend was practially yelling at me about how selfish these people are in not being productive members of society and doing only what they want to do when they want to do it. Anyone have anythoughts on how selfish climbers can be? Is it a problem? Do you agree?
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bmxer
Mar 11, 2005, 3:07 AM
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No, society is the problem.
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naw
Mar 11, 2005, 3:11 AM
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Once I finish my four years of military service I plan to have completed all of my "productive" services to society for the rest of my life. As far as I'm concerned, if I spend the rest of my days begging for food and sleeping in a tent I've already taken enough shit with a smile for a lifetime.
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112
Mar 11, 2005, 3:26 AM
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Selfish, sure.
A problem, no.
Thanks for your service naw.
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far_east_climber
Mar 11, 2005, 3:33 AM
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This could produce an interesting sociological/philosophical debate if this thread gets going. I take the view that everyone plays a part in society, even the person that 'lays about' on the streetside doing 'nothing' (or as we like to perceive it). We are all on a quest for a meaningful life and each of us have our own idea on how it can/should be fulfilled.
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phatcat
Mar 11, 2005, 3:37 AM
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In reply to: So I was having a friendly chat with a friend the other day and the dirtbag lifestyle came up. Before I knew it, said friend was practially yelling at me about how selfish these people are in not being productive members of society and doing only what they want to do when they want to do it. Anyone have anythoughts on how selfish climbers can be? Is it a problem? Do you agree?
dirtbag climbers and junkies? same thing if you ask me... :lol: :roll:
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vegastradguy
Mar 11, 2005, 3:44 AM
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In reply to: practially yelling at me about how selfish these people are in not being productive members of society and doing only what they want to do when they want to do it.
right, because every other American is a completely selfless individual, making it his or her mission to be a productive person to further the cause of American society.
:roll:
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jpza
Mar 11, 2005, 4:05 AM
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the reality is that climbing is a fully selfish endeavor. that doesn't mean that it's a bad thing. however, i can't get down with spending your entire life pursuing such a thing, whether its climbing or smoking crack or working as a wall street trader.
and saying that every other american isn't totally selfless, so i don't have to be is a cop out, and only contributes to maintaining the status quo.
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irockclimb
Mar 11, 2005, 4:09 AM
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yea im with society is the problem. not enough climbers where im from and to many rich snobes not while to step out into the outdoors
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nedsurf
Mar 11, 2005, 4:16 AM
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In reply to: Once I finish my four years of military service I plan to have completed all of my "productive" services to society for the rest of my life. As far as I'm concerned, if I spend the rest of my days begging for food and sleeping in a tent I've already taken enough s--- with a smile for a lifetime.
So true. I have already finished carrying a rifle for my country and now feel that people can f--- off if they don't like me living out of my truck for a while. If anyone has dealt with the bulls--- that the military gives out, they deserve to do what they want with their life even if it doesn't contribute to society. So go and judge some kid who payed for school with daddydollars and then has decided to be a dirtbag.
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no-brakes
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Mar 11, 2005, 4:36 AM
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In reply to: Before I knew it, said friend was practially yelling at me about how selfish these people are in not being productive members of society and doing only what they want to do when they want to do it.
Sounds like your friend is unhappy and envious, most likely stuck in a rut (personal or professional) which doesn't allow them to be happy enough with their own life. Complaining about the choices other people make is always productive... :roll:
I'm totally selfish all the time, but am still a productive person. Put that in your friends pipe. :P
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coldclimb
Mar 11, 2005, 4:42 AM
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Hehehe, I am outside the lines drawn by society. Screw conforming to the rules laid down by everybody else. They can be productive if they want, but I don't care. Who says I have to do what they think is right? All my life they've made me do that crap in school, and I'm done.
DIRTBAG4LYFE!!!!!
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jimdavis
Mar 11, 2005, 5:36 AM
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So your supposed to be a more productive member of society...by selling used cars and screwing people? Or working for some sales corperation to put money in their pockets? F* THAT!
Life is yours to enjoy.
Climb on!
Jim
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rokjunky
Mar 11, 2005, 6:02 AM
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productive as in healthcare workers. teachers....bad example. from the spelling displayed on this website those poor teachers have falied miserably.
it never ceases to amaze the attitude that anything that helps the infrastructure of our country function (ie. fire dept, police dept, maintaining roads, bridges, building codes, etc) is somehow anti-freedom, anti-climbng. let's not debate indivdual administrations. please don't forget that it is with these services that our taxes pay for and our govt. administers afford the rest of us the right and freedom to sleep in tents, beg and climb.
i applaud the verterans(climbers and non) that have paid the price and choose to camp out and climb. these are the folks i am talking about. without them we have no borders, we have no history, we have no freedom, we have no country.
911 should never be repeated.
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leinosaur
Mar 11, 2005, 6:05 AM
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Climbing is inherently selfish - you depend on yourself and sometimes your belayer, but you're not climbing for others, right? It's for oneself.
As for "productive" members of society - :roll:
Dirtbags are probably doing more "work" than most - physics-wise, at least! Producing heat, sweat, smells . . .
Less consumptive, though, market-wise. Not buying plasma tv's, etc.
Get a job, dirtbags, and be miserable just like everybody else! Sheesh.
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giza
Mar 11, 2005, 6:10 AM
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In reply to: ...how selfish these people are in not being productive members of society....
What are we all supposed to be producing? Units of consumption or widgets to fuel the economy? Tell your friend to lay off the glue, quit his job and start living his life for himself. What a lot of people don't realize is that being successful at not working is a challenge in itself....not everyone can pull it off. In fact most people are too conditioned and frightened to embrace the dirtbag lifestyle. Anyone can go get a job and 'contribute to society'; it takes a real man/woman to embrace the ideals of freedom and sacrifice the comforts of financial gain.
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alpinerock
Mar 11, 2005, 6:13 AM
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Is your friend by chance support socialisism? This is a capitailistic nation, if you can survive as a dirtbag climber without "contributing" to society then you have that right. As far as i know, the philosophy that everyone contributes is completley idealistic and communistic/socialistic(i know they aren't the same thing, but they support similar enough ideals to be considered together)Point being, this is America and its your constitutional right to be a dirtbag if you so desire
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kman
Mar 11, 2005, 6:16 AM
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In reply to: 911 should never be repeated.
And wtf does this even have to do with this conversation :?:
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tattooed_climber
Mar 11, 2005, 6:23 AM
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there is 2 kinds of dirtbags....
DEPENDENT, and
INDEPENDENT
:? there's some times a hybrid dirtbagger...but in reality is just a dirtbag that floats from to the other of the two types...
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dawgcatching
Mar 11, 2005, 7:21 AM
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Great topic!
I was just thinking about this the other day-a local newspaper had an article about a famous female climber-it describes how she lives out of a truck for 10 months out of the year (sleeps on a friend's couch the other 2), divorced her husband when he wanted to buy a house, relied on others to bail her out of a broken foot (no health insurance).
People, like most mammals, require social structures to survive. Without them, we cannot survive on our own. Our society, for better or worse, measures contributions with currency to buy needed products. Any society rewards contributions with some sort of goods or currency to buy goods. I do something for you, you repay me with money/food/services.
So, we have the dirtbag climber, sleeping on couches, eating out of a garbage can, hitchhiking around. The climber is a parasite, feeding off of the work of others (the job that bought the foot in the garbage can, or the petrol that fueled his ride to the next crag).
Basically, what if we all became full-time, homeless climbers? There wouldn't be much of a society-nothing would get done. In an anarchist/communal society (such as a small hunter/gatherer tribe, or Catalonia in the early days of the Spanish Civil War (Homage to Catalonia, George Orwell)) everyone has a job to do, and for society to function, that job has to get done. Sure, you don't have to do that job 24/7, but if you said "screw it, I am quitting and going climbing forever" then do you deserve petrol to get you to the crag? Deserve roads maintained so that you can get yourself there? Food to keep you alive? Of course not-others are doing your job, while you are freeloading.
Sure, one may not like "society", but come up with a better way for food to arrive on your plate, for your car to be fueled up in the morning, and to see that roads are built and maintained? As mentioned above, any society has a basic communalism that everyone has to share in for the species to survive. Sure, you may not like working at the supermarket, where the owner is raking in the $ and won't give you a raise, but people still need that food, and you are providing it to them. I work for a hydrogen fuel-cell company: sure, we aim to make a profit, but also to develop cleaner energy in the future. I really don't know too many people that go to work everyday chasing the $ and only the $-most of us are providing a service that needs to be performed and is a positive for society. Even that "greedy" investment banker-he makes $ when his investments do well, which in turn makes his investors money. Maybe not the best system, but at least some of those investors are regular people like you and I, who would one day hope to retire and enjoy our golden years, hopefully climbing and traveling. Even if you are a sponsored climber, you are giving back to society-that company can sell more ropes, climbers can have a good product, and investors can make some $ and help pay for the things they need.
For me, climbing is a great reward to look for after a day at work, or an extended vacation. After climbing, I feel rejuvenated, and excited to attack life head-on, whatever the challenges may be. Climbing all of the time would be boring: I took the better part of a summer off, and was excited to get back to new challenges back in the real world. Climbing is a very focused activity, and is a thrilling and engaging way to pursue personal goals, but society doesn't improve or degenerate depending on whether I send that route. Maybe it is because I enjoy my job, and don't dread "society"-I like people and new challenges. Maybe because I love my wife and want her to be financially secure, not living in the back of a van because I quit my job and chose to become a bum. Yes, we all need some sort of self-centered activity to unwind, whether it is gambing in Vegas, racing a bicycle, or climbing rocks. When it consumes your life at the expense of the bigger picture, it becomes a problem.
Just so I don't offend anyone, I am criticizing only those who are essentially climbing bums and parasites. Sure, take a 2-year extended vacation-if you have "put in your dues" then you deserve it. I am criticizing some of those full-time "climbers" I saw when I was in the Valley for an extended time: the people who befriended others in hope of a free joint, a free beer, or a hot meal. Those that stole food from the cafeteria (paid for in increased meal costs by paying customers). Basically losers with a capital L, parasites feeding off of others to support their selfish habits. I figure that if you have enough money to stay on the road, they you aren't a dirtbag, just a traveling climber looking to stretch his $ as far as it can go (assuming you didn't steal that $). When you rely on the generosity of others for your daily needs, such as food and transportation, then you are truly a bum.
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phatcat
Mar 11, 2005, 7:53 AM
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In reply to: Dirtbags are probably doing more "work" than most - physics-wise, at least! Producing heat, sweat, smells . . .
and just think of all that potential energy us climbers create!
allthough, because energy (for the most part) cannot be created or destroyed, i guess that potential energy comes from food, which is grown by other people in society....so i guess everyone who is not a farmer is draining energy from society...
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madison_climber
Mar 11, 2005, 7:54 AM
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Selfish...Does that mean I finally found my passion and I enjoy planning new trips and dream of climbing all around the world? Selfish for me equals that I have experienced the corporate world and am begining to figure it all out before it is too late. If you find your passion-what more can you do but pursue it to the fullest.
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mingleefu
Mar 11, 2005, 8:05 AM
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In reply to: productive as in healthcare workers. teachers....bad example. from the spelling displayed on this website those poor teachers have falied miserably... indivdual... verterans
This is what happens when the boot is on the other foot. And you spelled "rock" wrong, Mr. Junky.
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coldclimb
Mar 11, 2005, 8:26 AM
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In reply to: Basically, what if we all became full-time, homeless climbers? There wouldn't be much of a society-nothing would get done.
Would it though? I find that there's a kindred spirit that ties dirtbags together and makes them want to help each other out. I think a dirtbagging society would work fine. When I was in Smith in September, I hitched rides and weaseled my camping, but also handed out some food and stove fuel to fellow dirtbags, shared my own gear with complete strangers, and made several great friendships.
Granted I didn't live it for very long, but I think it could work out quite well. Your true dirtbag isn't purely a mooch, but rather someone who lives with less and is content with what they get. They don't just take, take, take, forever; they take what is offered or what nobody wants anymore, and they live off of that in complete happiness.
Or at least that's how MY life would go, in that situation. ;)
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kamloopsclimber
Mar 11, 2005, 8:36 AM
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some things need to be talked about with a close friend, like the un-bareable discomfort of feminin itch,
thats awkward
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