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roughster
Apr 5, 2005, 2:36 PM
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Hello,
This post is to serve two purposes:
1) Warn people that the rangers are patrolling and issueing tickets to people found climbing during their sweeps.
2) Solicit contact from anyone who was ticketed over the last few weekends. I am looking to pass on the info to the NorCal Access Fund rep and would like to have a copy of the actual ticket if at all possible.
Please PM me if you have more information.
Thanks!
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jaystone
Apr 5, 2005, 3:22 PM
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Are the rangers "looking" for climbers or just cruising through? Are they going above the bottom quarry?
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caughtinside
Apr 5, 2005, 3:44 PM
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They are looking for climbers, and they are now driving up to the upper quarry.
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mrtropy
Apr 5, 2005, 4:08 PM
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Are they checking during the week or just during the weekends. I was hoping to call in sick and climb there for a day. Jeff
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drkayak
Apr 5, 2005, 4:13 PM
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Aaron: we got cought Sunday April 2. My partner and I were already packed up when the Ranger showed up. We jumped on our bikes and took off.
There was another party of 6 that had ropes up on several climbs. The ranger let them climb up and get their gear. I do not know if they got ticketed.
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slablizard
Apr 5, 2005, 4:25 PM
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That suks! They got their gear? Stupid rangers :evil:
In reply to: Aaron: we got cought Sunday April 2. My partner and I were already packed up when the Ranger showed up. We jumped on our bikes and took off. There was another party of 6 that had ropes up on several climbs. The ranger let them climb up and get their gear. I do not know if they got ticketed. |
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caughtinside
Apr 5, 2005, 4:42 PM
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In reply to: Aaron: we got cought Sunday April 2. My partner and I were already packed up when the Ranger showed up. We jumped on our bikes and took off. There was another party of 6 that had ropes up on several climbs. The ranger let them climb up and get their gear. I do not know if they got ticketed.
They got ticketed. I must have just missed you guys, or else you were the group that whizzed by us on our way up the trail.
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drkayak
Apr 5, 2005, 4:47 PM
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In reply to: They got their gear?.....
The ranger allowed the climbers to climb up and collect the gear off the anchors. I have no knowdlege of any gear being taken by the ranger.
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drkayak
Apr 5, 2005, 5:18 PM
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In reply to: They got ticketed. I must have just missed you guys, or else you were the group that whizzed by us on our way up the trail.
How much is the fine? I had a red Mt. bike with my pack in a child seat. Knew better than to climb in the lower area, but, It was rainning a little when we got there and we did not expect to get much climbing in.
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slablizard
Apr 5, 2005, 5:37 PM
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you mean you can drive up the crag with your car?
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caughtinside
Apr 5, 2005, 6:01 PM
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No. There is a road, but the gate is locked. The rangers only unlock it when they want to drive in and bust climbers.
You and I, Paolo, have to hike. :)
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slablizard
Apr 5, 2005, 6:04 PM
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Hummm we could buy Rangers uniforms and put some stickers on our car..then collect gear ! :)
In reply to: No. There is a road, but the gate is locked. The rangers only unlock it when they want to drive in and bust climbers. You and I, Paolo, have to hike. :) |
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jt512
Apr 5, 2005, 7:40 PM
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In reply to: Hello, This post is to serve two purposes: 1) Warn people that the rangers are patrolling and issueing tickets to people found climbing during their sweeps. 2) Solicit contact from anyone who was ticketed over the last few weekends. I am looking to pass on the info to the NorCal Access Fund rep and would like to have a copy of the actual ticket if at all possible. Please PM me if you have more information. Thanks!
Aaron, what is the legal basis for citing climbers? I'm wondering if whether you could fight one of these tickets in court and win and thereby win access for climbers.
-Jay
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caughtinside
Apr 5, 2005, 8:01 PM
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The legal basis for citing climbers is an order from the district superintendant. The order prohibits 'technical climbing' which is defined in the order. Interestingly, free soloing doesn't fall within the definition of technical climbing.
The problem with fighting a ticket is that it's only $30. Interestingly, only the climbers were cited, belayers were not ticketed.
Oh, the superintendants order was issued pursuant to the applicable CCR section. I forget which one it is, Aaron has a copy of the order. And our oh so effective access fund rep, who as far as I can tell is making things worse.
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drkayak
Apr 5, 2005, 8:30 PM
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The fine was $30 for those that were actually caught climbing, i.e. belayers were not included. From what I gathered, they have to actually catch you in the act. So, if you had tons of equipment and were in the process of getting started or ending, they can’t ticket you. Juan asked the ranger if he could climb back up to retrieve their gear from the anchor. She said sure, then ticketed him for climbing on the wall.
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slablizard
Apr 6, 2005, 4:52 PM
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DI the ranger took the gear away or not? Otherwise splitting a $ 30 ticket is not a big of a deal...
In reply to: The legal basis for citing climbers is an order from the district superintendant. The order prohibits 'technical climbing' which is defined in the order. Interestingly, free soloing doesn't fall within the definition of technical climbing. The problem with fighting a ticket is that it's only $30. Interestingly, only the climbers were cited, belayers were not ticketed. Oh, the superintendants order was issued pursuant to the applicable CCR section. I forget which one it is, Aaron has a copy of the order. And our oh so effective access fund rep, who as far as I can tell is making things worse. |
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caughtinside
Apr 6, 2005, 5:00 PM
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No. The rangers did not confiscate any gear. I understand they let the climbers clean their toprope anchors.
Yeah, a $30 ticket isn't that big of a fine, but it sure will ruin your day if you are out to climb, have driven a ways, and have to go home.
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slablizard
Apr 6, 2005, 5:13 PM
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Yep.
In reply to: No. The rangers did not confiscate any gear. I understand they let the climbers clean their toprope anchors. Yeah, a $30 ticket isn't that big of a fine, but it sure will ruin your day if you are out to climb, have driven a ways, and have to go home. |
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scottcody
Apr 6, 2005, 11:48 PM
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Any other options for climbing in the area this weekend?
Does anyone know if the leap is climbable yet?
Thanks in advance
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jerrygarcia
Apr 7, 2005, 12:28 AM
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In reply to: Any other options for climbing in the area this weekend?
Sugarloaf
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scuclimber
Apr 7, 2005, 6:22 AM
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That's poopy. I was thinking of going home (Colfax) for a weekend to climb and ski a day, respectively. Definitely a downer to know that they're citing now.
Colin
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drkayak
Apr 7, 2005, 4:42 PM
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In reply to: I understand they let the climbers clean their toprope anchors..
There was only one person actually climbing when the ranger showed up. He would have been the only one to get a ticket. Juan asked if he could go up and clean the anchors. The ranger said sure then ticketed him when he came down.
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g-funk
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Apr 7, 2005, 5:02 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: I understand they let the climbers clean their toprope anchors.. There was only one person actually climbing when the ranger showed up. He would have been the only one to get a ticket. Juan asked if he could go up and clean the anchors. The ranger said sure then ticketed him when he came down.
What an asshole.
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roughster
Apr 7, 2005, 5:18 PM
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In reply to: What an asshole.
Yep :(
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jt512
Apr 7, 2005, 5:28 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: I understand they let the climbers clean their toprope anchors.. There was only one person actually climbing when the ranger showed up. He would have been the only one to get a ticket. Juan asked if he could go up and clean the anchors. The ranger said sure then ticketed him when he came down.
I'd consider filing a complaint with that ranger's supervisor, and I'd be tempted to fight the ticket in court. Even if the climber was technically guilty, a judge is likely to frown on a ranger playing games like that, and dismiss the ticket.
-Jay
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caughtinside
Apr 7, 2005, 5:33 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: I understand they let the climbers clean their toprope anchors.. There was only one person actually climbing when the ranger showed up. He would have been the only one to get a ticket. Juan asked if he could go up and clean the anchors. The ranger said sure then ticketed him when he came down. I'd consider filing a complaint with that ranger's supervisor, and I'd be tempted to fight the ticket in court. Even if the climber was technically guilty, a judge is likely to frown on a ranger playing games like that, and dismiss the ticket. -Jay
Good suggestions. However, it appears as though the ranger's supervisor is the cause of all our climbing woes.
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g-funk
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Apr 7, 2005, 8:40 PM
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I know we're all feeling this way right now, but what the sh*t are we gonna do about this?
We've all enjoyed climbing under the radar for awhile now in Auburn, but these a$$holes are going to start getting proactive about finding climbers to nail. I'm pleased by the greater vision of the access fund, but this is a problem right here in my backyard (in an outdoors state rec. area no less) that seems like it should be able to be solved with a little diplomacy and good communication. They seem to have done nothing to further our cause thus far. I don't understand the position of the rec. board, and I can't figure out what the hell could be so nefarious about recreational climbing in a recreational area which is ideally suited for it. Has anybody out there heard a decent reason to not allow climbing other than this crap about f*^%ing parking?
We seem to have gotten nowhere thus far. I know that I could be more involved in helping in this issue, but I feel like at this point I want to start playing the Hayduke game which is probably not going to help the situation.
Does anybody have any ideas? :?:
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caughtinside
Apr 7, 2005, 8:58 PM
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I've been told that if you write a letter to the Secretary of the State Resources Agency, by law they must respond. I'm drafting a letter to point out the value of the area, and to question the reasons that climbing is not allowed.
My hope is that the people at Resources will then go to the SRA and start asking questions. Then, hopefully, we will get their position on paper, which up till now has been amorphous and based on some cross-jurisdictional crock with the Fed Resources agency.
I think if we have some sort of official position, by the SRA, on paper, we will have a good starting ground from where to press our issues.
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g-funk
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Apr 7, 2005, 10:06 PM
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Sounds like a great idea caughtinside. When/if you get a response keep us posted, or PM me. Maybe if you have a good letter written you could post it here and we could all flood their office in order to get more immediate action.
Thanks for being pro-active, and here's to hoping.
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mungeclimber
Apr 9, 2005, 8:06 PM
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Roughster or Caughtinside
can you post up the address again of who to write letters to?
I don't hardly get up there, but the history of one guy attempting rope jumping, is not technical climbing. They can allow rec climbing and disallow rope-jumping with proper orders and definitions from the sup. Though slacklining may have to be prohibited as part of that definition.
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drkayak
Aug 23, 2005, 4:40 PM
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In reply to: Yeah, a $30 ticket isn't that big of a fine, but it sure will ruin your day if you are out to climb, have driven a ways, and have to go home.
My parther was talking to Juan at the gym the other day.... When he received the ticket in the mail it was $175.
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dingus
Aug 23, 2005, 4:53 PM
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There is to be a big write up in Thursday's Sacramento Bee this week about the recreation opportunities at Auburn SRA.
www.sacbee.com
I'll post the relevant link when it shows up. Maybe I/we can get a newsman interested in our persecution? I intend to try.
DMT
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dingus
Aug 23, 2005, 5:30 PM
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I just wrote a letter to the editor of the Sacremento Bee (sacbee.com), posted below. Maybe some of you who are interested can also write in advance of the article? I think the more the merrier!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Dear Editor
I understand that Thursday of this week you will run an outdoors article on the Auburn State Recreation Area.
The Auburn SRA is an outstanding recreational area 'recovered' from the bottom of an unfilled lake. As such, all of the activities there (mtn biking, fishing, swimming, horse back riding, etc) are a boon to locals.
One fairly large local group of potential users is being discriminated against, singled out and excluded from the excellent opportunities at SRA.
This group is 'climbers/cavers.' There is an old gold mine/ limestone quarry on the SRA property. This mine was/is largely an ugly blight on the land, a scar left over from times when people thought less about what they would leave behind.
That scar is easily visible from a plane, or from high on the Auburn Bridge on the other side of the river.
Climbers long ago began to realize the potential for cragging on these cliffs. I myself first climbed there about a decade ago. More recently, locals developed and opened more routes and an increase in climber activity was seen and noted by Auburn SRA management.
The Auburn SRA district superintendent ruled by decree that climbing was a prohibited activity, based upon the death of a rope trick jumper 6 or 7 years ago. Rope tick jumping is NOT a climbing activity by the way. It is a rope trick akin to bunji jumping. Serious climbers do not do this.
Climbing had been tolerated and no rules prohibited its practice up until that point. The Placer County Sheriff uses the area TO THIS DAY to practice their vertical search and rescue techniques.
It is a valuable local climbing resource. It is a terrible shame that it is off limits DUE TO ONE PERSON. Local climbers have appealed this decision to no avail. Management seems to have it in for climbers, while simultaneously supporting such 'dangerous' activities as white water rafting. How many have drowned at Auburn SRA over the years? I assure you it is FAR MORE than one... (as in one climber), why haven't they outlawed SWIMMING too?
Management tried citing the danger of old mining operations. Yet they do not attempt to keep non-climbers out of the quarry and away from these so-called hazards. Sort of dismisses the imminent danger argument. Besides, climbers deal with the risks and hazards of the vertical environment on a daily basis... these risks are part and parcel to the sport and are even present in our gyms!
Climbers have a non-profit organization, the Access Fund, that fights for climbers' access privileges. While they are involved (www.accessfund.com) thus far they have been unsuccessful in changing the mind of the area superintendent.
I urge the Sacramento Bee and the editorial staff to help local climbers realize the recreational benefits of our tax dollars or at least call attention to our plight! Hey, climbers are people too, California tax payers to boot! We support 3 local area climbing gyms and there are literally hundreds of us in Sac that could benefit from this area. We don't want to all descend upon Auburn SRA at the same time. On the contrary, only a certain percentage of us would visit and most of those visits would occur fall-spring.
Background Info on Auburn SRA Climbing:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/routes/listArea.php?AreaID=5684
An article on the fact that Auburn SRA is issuing tickets for climbers choosing to recreate at a state recreation area:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/topic/85536
Thank you for your consideration
DMT
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roughster
Aug 24, 2005, 1:46 AM
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Dingus,
Thanks for the heads up on the article. While I have been out of climbing for a bit thanks to a dislocated shoulder, Auburn is never far from my mind. The Quarry truly is a vast and mostly untapped resource full of potential for climbers. It is a shame that climbers are singled out as some "evil entity" when in reality we turned what was once akin to a local dump (i.e. multiple bums living in the current "climbing spots") into a place where the local climbers, which are also local tax payers as well as consumers, could go with their families and enjoy being outdoors. To this day, Auburn is one of my daughters favorite place to be and we often hike the canyon. Its silly to think as long as I don't use a rope, I can climb there as much as I want.
The SRA has yet to provide a single piece of rationale evidence that would support a climbing ban. Too boot, they have acted in bad faith and purposefully misled climbers by promising to include them in the drafting of the recreational usage plan and yet have made every effort to keep us excluded from the process. In my opinion, the current SRA management are more full of self importance than any true desire to serve the people who pay their salaries or manage the land with public's interest at heart.
Haven't you heard the latest Dingus? Climbing isn't allowed because there isn't enough parking in the area. How many of us would willingly park outside of the Quarry parking along the confluence if it meant that we were allowed to climb in the Quarry? Why is a climbers vehicle more "problematic" than a drunk sun bather's car parked at the confluence? It's just another attempt at weak justification for a ban that is petty and pointless.
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kachoong
Aug 24, 2005, 2:02 AM
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Good luck guys!! Sounds like you're really doing a great thing for the local climbers there and for climbers in general. I hope it works out! Keep up the great work! :righton:
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