First off, awesome job at being creative. It's that kind of thinking that will make you a good aids climber. That is what you want to be someday right? Just kidding.

Well dude, there is a slight problem with your picture there. Notice how you clipped both at once. The red hex is the one that will be holding your weight, because notice how the grey one is lower than the red.

If you fall and the grey one gets weighted first (although red is shorter due to height position, think if the rope ran slightly to the left) it will be tugged out from under the red. This is almost indistinguishable from the pic, but it is something to look at.

What you should have done, was clip into the red only, and then clip a keeper sling from the grey into the sling of the red (or the cable of the red), and not the rope. That way, if you fall, the red gets weighted only, and the grey only serves to act as an extended part of the crack. You also could have turned the grey upside down so that it is flaring upward, further allowing the red to be in a constriction (you would then put your keeper sling on the grey cable that you feed through the top (facing downward now) of the hex).

However, good job on the climb!!! I am just giving you things to think of.

TRADitionally yours,

Cali Dirtbag

Well dude, there is a slight problem with your picture there. Notice how you clipped both at once. The red hex is the one that will be holding your weight, because notice how the grey one is lower than the red.

If you fall and the grey one gets weighted first (although red is shorter due to height position, think if the rope ran slightly to the left) it will be tugged out from under the red. This is almost indistinguishable from the pic, but it is something to look at.

What you should have done, was clip into the red only, and then clip a keeper sling from the grey into the sling of the red (or the cable of the red), and not the rope. That way, if you fall, the red gets weighted only, and the grey only serves to act as an extended part of the crack. You also could have turned the grey upside down so that it is flaring upward, further allowing the red to be in a constriction (you would then put your keeper sling on the grey cable that you feed through the top (facing downward now) of the hex).

I had my first 5.8 trad lead earlier in the day...

Based on the number of mistakes that you have related about this single climb. I would have to say that you might be better off finding another hobby. Something safer. Really.

Good on ya for figuring that out with the level of experience you have. Buuuuuuut... taking falls on your second ever trad lead seems a bit premature. Pick your routes carefully, especially at this critical stage of the game. Live long! Prosper! :D

I can assure you most of my climbs are not this mistake ridden!

I won't be quite so harsh, but it sounds like you may want to be taking this trad thing a bit slower. :roll:

I applaud your creativity with the hexes, but at the same time it worries me that you took a 10 footer on your second trad lead after failing to judge properly what gear you'd need to lead it.

~Adam~

aving the first hex pop out as soon as he climbed above it, well ... that's his fault for not putting a cam in there.

Another thing you might want to try next time is to simply thread the sling (or wire) of the red hex through the sling (or wire) of the gray hex. Saves a carabiner, keeps the weight on the red one.

since this was his first piece, it should be a no-brainer that it should be a multi directional, i.e. cam, opposed nuts, etc. to avoid the zippering effect. also as his belayer, you might have pointed this out to him when he was placing the first piece. even if that hex didn't pop when he climbed above it, it most certainly would have popped when he fell, thus starting the "zipper". it's important to make sure your first piece is bombr.

Good advice from thegraytradster...at your level of experience carrying way more than you need is an excellent idea. I alwyas did. And I still sometimes do in areas that I am unfamiliar with. Having a nice big piece for a spot like that would be really great. You totally should have only clipped one. "At the end of the day" I would have to say this had a higher chance of pulling than i would be willing to rely on as my only piece off the deck. Very creative though. However, and a big however, place creative, almost experimental type pieces like that when you don't really have to rely on them(at first) then when you really need them...farther along in your career you will have the skills and the creativity to hook up something creative & bomber. Another thing..I saw a very bomber spot for what looks like a #2-#3.5 cam..hard to tell from the pic...and on a climb that looked anything like this those piece should totally have been with you.

"At the end of the day" I would have to say this had a higher chance of pulling than i would be willing to rely on as my only piece off the deck. Very creative though. However, and a big however, place creative, almost experimental type pieces like that when you don't really have to rely on them(at first) then when you really need them...farther along in your career you will have the skills and the creativity to hook up something creative & bomber. Another thing..I saw a very bomber spot for what looks like a #2-#3.5 cam.

Good on ya for figuring that out with the level of experience you have. Buuuuuuut... taking falls on your second ever trad lead seems a bit premature. Pick your routes carefully, especially at this critical stage of the game. Live long! Prosper! :D

Regardless of how many 5.8 leads he's done - I'm going to cite a great rgold post about how you SHOULD NOT fall on anything 5.9 and below.

Rgold Said "In this regard, I'm going to make a claim that will get me flamed, but so be it. It is not necessarily addressed to the original poster; the "you" is meant to be universal in what follows. If you are falling on climbs less than 5.10, you're going about it all wrong. Generations of climbers have learned to work their way up through 5.9 without taking leader falls, primarily because the gear made falling a more serious proposition. But better gear won't make you a better climber, and it won't help you develop the discipline needed to climb with relative safety near your limit. So slow down and learn the fine art of failure, so that when tomorrow comes, you'll still be around for another try. "

azrockclimber,

And as I said earlier, I'd fall all day long on the stack in the picture (though, again, I'd adjust the red down and grey up a bit first). The only thing "experimental" about stacking hexs and stoppers is the fact that you guys are young and grew up with cams. Stacking passive pro was just a normal, everyday part of placing pro before cams came along. I used to stack on just about on about every other route back in the day. In fact, we used to have some of our stoppers doubled up on webbing/perlon just so you could fold the top one down for stacks.

The way healyje tells it, you would think that he invented sport tradding. Seriously, he sounds just like the newbie gym climber that went from gym to sport to trad in the space of a year. (there are enough of them on this site)

Stacking hexes is highly unusual and they are never the bomb.

If you take je's attitude to jtree, good chance you're going home in a body bag. Particularly if you pick routes like the op did.

There have been maybe two or three sensible replies in this thread.

Oh, and the original route in question is 35 feet long, you can see all of the route from the ground, and if you took a ten footer in the middle of it you would be bleeding for sure.

This station will now return you to toonville.

And falling is a normal part of climbing at or near you capabilities and that doesn't matter if you are 5.10 climber who falls on a 5.9 or a 5.7 climber that falls on a 5.7.

I keep seeing endless commentary about "never falling on trad" and climbing trad "3-4 levels below my sport capabilities"; again, falling - trad or sport - is a normal part of climbing and if you aren't falling you are likely a) not learning and b) not climbing at your limits.

As healyje has said, I will repeat, I'd be happy to fall on that stack.

On the other hand, you were willing to rappel using a (single?) WC Helium as the brake bar of a carabiner brake.

-Jay

Apart from this having no relationship to the quality of the hex placement... so what? I've done many biner brake raps using a single carabiner for the brake.

Apart from this having no relationship to the quality of the hex placement...

so what? I've done many biner brake raps using a single carabiner for the brake.

The way healyje tells it, you would think that he invented sport tradding. Seriously, he sounds just like the newbie gym climber that went from gym to sport to trad in the space of a year. (there are enough of them on this site)

Stacking hexes is highly unusual and they are never the bomb.

D: If it looks good from a distance, despite not really being able to see how the placement touches the rock in anyway, and knowing that it was placed by a gumby; I am going to pronounce it as a good placement.

Healy chooses "D"

If you take je's attitude to jtree, good chance you're going home in a body bag. Particularly if you pick routes like the op did.

Good job on the stack. (snip) but I'd still fall on that all day from the look of it...

This is the quality of advice that you get from thirty year climbers on this site? Guess so.

The way healyje tells it, you would think that he invented sport tradding. Seriously, he sounds just like the newbie gym climber that went from gym to sport to trad in the space of a year. (there are enough of them on this site)

A clueless gumbie does a cam stack without a hint of the right way to do it. He has a partner who declares it fine despite the fact that it is obviously clipped wrong.

Then the clueless internet cheering squad kicks in.


The stack is clipped wrong, as you noted.
The hexes are not oriented in the best manner in relation to each other, as you also noted.

Then there is the reality that you cannot see any of the places where the hexes touch the rock. (which you conveniently ignore.)
=-=-=-=-

This is the quality of advice that you get from thirty year climbers on this site? Guess so.

1) I can't tell from the OP's pictures whether that hex-stack is any good or not; I'm not sure that I would offer such an opinion based on pictures alone. I like to be able to fiddle with the gear myself and see how the feel of the placement is--from different directional tugs, before I get an idea of how sound a placement is.

2) It is certainly possible to create "bomber" placements by stacking hexes or stacking nuts.

The truly grizzled recall times we stacked bong-bongs. Now those could be bomber...trouble was, your rack vanished double fast. And then there was that trick of camming bongs with a sling or a cable.

A bong with a sling thru the lightening holes made a great 4-6 " nut depending on orentation.

It worked even better if you ground the nose at an angle, to make it more nut-shaped. Or even ground a whole inch off, so your bong fit that hard-to-find 5" size. I did this with several of mine, and used them endwise surprisingly often.

[aside]The Left Baskerville Crack sucks.[/aside]

Curt

why dont they just make really big hexes like up to 6 inches?