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jestress
Jun 8, 2005, 4:52 PM
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I'm currently living in LA (Venice) and want to get out of here. I just took a road trip through the southwest and loved it. I was planning on moving to Boulder, CO this fall, but on my recent trip stopped in Durango and Flagstaff and thought these towns had a lot to offer also. Now I can't decide where I'd like to live. I definitely want to live somewhere the climbing is good and also like hiking, skiing, mountaineering. I really loved the town of Durango, but it's kind of far from any major city. My job is not an issue as I'm a freelancer and work from home. I'm single, so a place where a single person would feel at home is good too. I'm thinking of taking another trip in August and staying 2 weeks in each town to get a feel for each. Any comments and suggestions on the merits of these places would be welcomed! (or any other suggested towns to live in - I've considered Taos, NM also, but it's kind of small and I've never been to Santa Fe....)
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bill
Jun 8, 2005, 4:56 PM
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If skiing and mountaineering are really important to you, I'd consider taking Flagstaff off the list. Snowbowl is a pretty small ski area, and Flagstaff certainly doesn't have the consistent snow or terrain that Durango or Boulder can offer.
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drrock
Jun 8, 2005, 4:59 PM
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mbg
Jun 8, 2005, 5:03 PM
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In reply to: As for Santa Fe, I spent a month there working once, wierd place but cool in a rich-hippy kind of way. Would not be for me long term, but was great place to spend some time short term. Expensive place to live for sure. Lots of hiking and outdoors stuff near there though.
That pretty much sums up Boulder, Durango and Flag too. :wink:
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bill
Jun 8, 2005, 5:15 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: As for Santa Fe, I spent a month there working once, wierd place but cool in a rich-hippy kind of way. Would not be for me long term, but was great place to spend some time short term. Expensive place to live for sure. Lots of hiking and outdoors stuff near there though. That pretty much sums up Boulder, Durango and Flag too. :wink:
Indeed, if you are not fond of trustafarians, run, do not walk away from these three towns.
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jestress
Jun 8, 2005, 5:16 PM
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as for expensive, well, I'm not sure how expensive Santa Fe is. I heard it was, but the other three towns I mentioned, although perhaps expensive compared to other towns in their states, are not nearly as expensive as Venice, CA or San Francisco (where I lived for 12 years). So for me, that is not an issue.
Part of what I think I need to decide is how much snow is important to me, in that case Durango would be better as it is still close to the southwest (which is appealing) but has better skiing/mountaineering/snow sports than Flag. But then, Boulder has a circus school and aerial dance....another interest of mine...
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drrock
Jun 8, 2005, 5:21 PM
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iceisnice
Jun 8, 2005, 6:06 PM
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i live in durango and have LOVED it since i've been here. its got some amazing cragging around town and is a great jumping off point for so many areas (indian creek-2 hrs, black canyon-3 hrs, etc). if you are into alpine and mountaineering the san juans have some of the highest concentration of peaks and technical routes. the backcountry skiing is hands down the best in the state as we get far more snow than the rest of the state. the terrian is pretty amazing too. the resorts are ok, purgatory isn't too good in my opinion, wolf creek has moderate terrian but more snow than anyone else, and telluride isn't too far away. also, if you like ice, this is the best place to be in the state. as you said, its pretty far from a big city (alb, NM is the closest). that is something to take into consideration if that is your thing i guess. i lived on the front range and couldn't stand the sprall and how long it took me to get into the mountains. durango actually has a fair amount to do in town as its a college town/resort town. its also a bit cheaper than boulder to live here. if you wanna know more, let me know. if you are visiting again and want to do some climbing i have a lot of time off.
Ray
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jestress
Jun 8, 2005, 6:40 PM
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hmmm. Durango is sounding better and better. I like ice climbing too - only did it once, but would like to try again. Being near a big city is not that much of an issue. Well, mostly because a major airport is rather far. I like to travel internationally, but it's usually not more than twice per year, so maybe it's not such a big deal.
It's possible I may be out there in August. I'll let you know.
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djoseph
Jun 8, 2005, 6:45 PM
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Hi -- you might want to take a look at this "Moving to Colorado" thread, which has some info:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=87006&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=
Having said that, I've lived in Sedona/Flagstaff and Boulder, and visited Durango. In a nutshell, Flag is a very small, very friendly town with some dedicated climbers. Durango struck me as similar in my brief visit. Boulder has much more of a larger-town feel, especially with Denver only 30 miles away.
If you visit each of them, you'll probably get a sense of what you'll like.
And if you're in Flag for a while, certainly get an Americano coffee at Late for the Train... and visit Verital Relief rock gym down the street. And if you want some adventure, look up the directions to the lava tube cave outside of town.
Good luck!
Dan
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iceisnice
Jun 8, 2005, 8:22 PM
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yeah, if you want to travel internationally your best choices from durango are SLC and Albuquerque. I've found prices out of Alb tend to be more expensive. Alb is only 3.5 hrs, SLC is 6 hrs (denver is 7-8 hrs).
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jcinco
Jun 8, 2005, 8:46 PM
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If snow is any kind of priority then immediately remove Flagstaff from the list. Also, remove Santa Fe/Taos as only 1 out of every 4 or so years is there enough snow to make it worthwhile. That said, New Mexico is the most underrated outdoor state in the US.
As for Durango or Boulder, the rock climbing near Boulder is far better than Durango. Yeah, Durango is closer to the desert, but that's it. The amount and diversity of rock within an hour of Boulder is staggering. Boulder lacks in steep sport climbing, but has just about everything else. However, the mountain access from Boulder is not as good as one might like, and there is virtually zero ice, if you're into that sort of thing. Durango has much better high country access, while still being at a location that has pretty comfortable winter temps. Durango also has a really nice small town feel, whereas Boulder is a large town/small city and thus does not. You really feel like you are living in Colorado while in Durango, whereas in Boulder, if you didn't have the Flatiron views, you would think you were living in the midwest.
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bluesky
Jun 8, 2005, 8:47 PM
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For the best rock climbing across the spectrum I'd have to vote for Boulder (**** bouldering, *** sport, **** trad, **** alpine rock, ** decent ice and mixed in season). Then again for the mix of closer acess to snow sports, good rock and close to the CREEK you'd have to go with Durango. And you get out of the front range sprawl. Not familiar with Flag.
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iceisnice
Jun 8, 2005, 9:07 PM
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i would have to agree, when it comes to the amount of good rock, there is more around boulder. however, that being said, i've been surprised at how much good climbing there is right around durango. east animas cliff has some of the best trad lines i've ever done. if you are into sport you have a TON of routes to choose from. the one down side for some people is that there are very few moderates here (most climbs are 5.10 and harder). ophir and ames walls are only an 1 1/2 away too which offers a lifetime of climbing in itself. there are also several great crags that haven't (and probably won't) be published that offer some great climbing. i may sound like i'm trying to sell the area, but in a way, i guess i am. i'd really like to see more hardcore traditional climbers and alpinists in the area. there is a great core group of climbers here who push a high standard and ethic, but, there is a great deal of the neophyte sport climbers here too. there are also a couple of areas that could have some access issues and a good group of climbers could preserve those.
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jestress
Jun 8, 2005, 10:46 PM
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Thanks for all the information posted, and the "moving to CO" posting was helpful too.
Well, iceisnice, you're doing a good job of selling Durango! So far, this seems the most likely place I'll end up. But I just need to come and visit again myself in order to make a decision.
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cliffdrop
Jun 9, 2005, 1:31 PM
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Jestress,
I have lived in Colorado my whole life (Denver, Boulder, Aspen) and I would have to say southwest CO blows the rest of the state away for outdoor recreation fun. I live in Pagosa Springs which is 1 hour east of Durango. Pagosa has some sweet sport climbs and bouldering galore. Between Durango, Pagosa Springs, Del Norte, and South Fork, there seems to be enough climbing for lifetimes.
Wolf Creek has the best snow in Colorado and is only 20 minutes from Pagosa. If you don't like small towns then Durango would be your best bet. The reason I like Pagosa is the central location (within 1.5 hours) to many sweet climbing areas especially in Del Norte and South Fork. If you come out this way look me up and I can show you some of the goods.
Brian
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killclimbz
Jun 9, 2005, 2:06 PM
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In reply to: Jestress, I have lived in Colorado my whole life (Denver, Boulder, Aspen) and I would have to say southwest CO blows the rest of the state away for outdoor recreation fun. I live in Pagosa Springs which is 1 hour east of Durango. Pagosa has some sweet sport climbs and bouldering galore. Between Durango, Pagosa Springs, Del Norte, and South Fork, there seems to be enough climbing for lifetimes. Wolf Creek has the best snow in Colorado and is only 20 minutes from Pagosa. If you don't like small towns then Durango would be your best bet. The reason I like Pagosa is the central location (within 1.5 hours) to many sweet climbing areas especially in Del Norte and South Fork. If you come out this way look me up and I can show you some of the goods. Brian
While I agree the climbing is great and that Wolf Creek is a great area, it is most definitely not the best "Snow" in Colorado. It is heavier and wetter than most other spots. Now, if you say the most snow, I will agree with that. It frick'in pukes down there.
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jestress
Jun 9, 2005, 3:37 PM
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cliffdrop wrote:
In reply to: If you don't like small towns then Durango would be your best bet.
well, actually I consider Durango to be a small town, but I assume you were comparing it to Pagosa Springs. Remember, I live in LA which is a huge sprawling urban mass (which is one of the main reasons I want to leave)! But yeah, I think something too small would be too shocking. Durango is the smallest of the three towns I'm considering. But I think I would like it.
Also wondering how easy it will be to meet people. I always thought it would be more difficult in a small town (less people to meet??), but maybe it's easier??! People are more friendly, perhaps?
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bvb
Jun 9, 2005, 3:54 PM
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In reply to: If snow is any kind of priority then immediately remove Flagstaff from the list.
huh? my wife got her 90 days in this year -- and she loves the snowbowl. and this after 4 years of skiing park city and alta every winter.
when i transferred from my last job (4.5 years in salt lake city), i was given the choice of moving to pretty much any town i wanted to in the u.s., including durango and boulder -- and new paltz, laramie, bozeman, anywhere in the north cascades, zion n.p., yosemite, josh, etc.
we picked flag. a lifetime's worth of sandstone towers 30 minutes away; about 15 killer climbing areas on five different kinds of rock within 15 minutes of downtown; low cost of living; high quality of life; tight climbing community; superb mountain biking; and a perfect, centralized jump-off point for weekend and long weekend adventures -- red rocks, josh, cochises' stronghold, hueco, indian creek, blah blah blah.
it all depends on what you want in your town, and where you want to be able to climb or bike of cave of canyoneer after work and on weekends.
don't but anyone's hype. each of the three towns you have mentioned offer distinctly different living and lifestyle experiences. get someone who really knows these towns to show you around.
p.s. -- if you are a photographer, there is a large and thriving commmunity and lensmen and women in flag -- many very successful photogs call the place home; more than one has nailed a national geographic cover -- you'll have plenty of shutterfreaks to hang with.
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jestress
Jun 9, 2005, 5:38 PM
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finally someone defended Flagstaff. I was just in Flagstaff last weekend and really liked it.
The photography community is a plus, as is the proximity of many areas of the southwest and a major airport in Phoenix (and not so far from my friends in CA). But yes, I need to visit again for a longer period of time and really get a feel of the place, which will probably happen in August or early Sept. before I head off to Peru for 3 weeks.
So there is snow....although I'm assuming it's not as snowy of an environment as Durango would be. Boulder is not seeming as appealing as it once was as after a recent trip around the southwest, I think i'd just rather be there!
So how far is it to drive from Durango to Flagstaff? I did that drive but stopped at Mesa Verde, Monument Valley, Page and the Grand Canyon along the way, so it's kind of hard to tell how long a straight drive would be.
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cliffdrop
Jun 9, 2005, 9:18 PM
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While I agree the climbing is great and that Wolf Creek is a great area, it is most definitely not the best "Snow" in Colorado. It is heavier and wetter than most other spots. Now, if you say the most snow, I will agree with that. It frick'in pukes down there.
Killclimbz,
Actually you're wrong dude, Wolf Creek usually has the lightest fluffiest snow except early and late season, then it's heavy and wet. I have had a season pass for 4 years now and the only complaint I have is you spend more time on the lift than the runs because of the small vert. When I lived in Aspen I would be so envious of this place because we would get 2 inches and Wolfie would get 3 feet! For the deepest and best snow in Colorado, Wolf Creek and Silverton win the prize.
Brian
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killclimbz
Jun 9, 2005, 10:38 PM
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In reply to: While I agree the climbing is great and that Wolf Creek is a great area, it is most definitely not the best "Snow" in Colorado. It is heavier and wetter than most other spots. Now, if you say the most snow, I will agree with that. It frick'in pukes down there.
Killclimbz,
Actually you're wrong dude, Wolf Creek usually has the lightest fluffiest snow except early and late season, then it's heavy and wet. I have had a season pass for 4 years now and the only complaint I have is you spend more time on the lift than the runs because of the small vert. When I lived in Aspen I would be so envious of this place because we would get 2 inches and Wolfie would get 3 feet! For the deepest and best snow in Colorado, Wolf Creek and Silverton win the prize.
Brian
Not saying the snow isn't great. Both times I went there mid season btw, I got to ride on the pass with over 3 feet of freshies. It was an awesome experience. The best snow I have ridden in the state so far is Monarch pass. Consistently light and deep, but not as much snow falls there (though quite a bit) as at Wolf Creek. Wolf Creek has always been known for tons of snow but not as light as say Steamboat. Last season was a bit of an anomally in that all the storms were wetter than most years. We are talking butt hairs here though. The average water content is probably a half maybe full percent more than other Colorado areas such as Steamboat. If I could spend a season riding the BC down at Wolf Creek or Steamboat I would go down to Wolf Crekk without making a second thought. Must be pretty dang good. 8^) .
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iceisnice
Jun 9, 2005, 10:57 PM
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jestress, you asked above how hard it is to meet people. i've found it pretty easy to find people for local climbing and just recently met a few people for larger trips. i've found the locals to be very inviting when i've met them at the crags. that's pretty much how i've met most of the people i climb with. just go up to one of the popular climbing areas and start talking to people. it seems like you just need to meet a couple of people and they end up having a ton of climbing partners that you can meet too. its a very friendly community here (as long as you don't have texas license plates on your vehicle). there are a lot of genuine people here and not a lot of posturing and posing (which was pretty much my experience in the boulder area).
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iceisnice
Jun 9, 2005, 11:01 PM
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i would have to agree with killclimbz a little bit too, the snow is a tad bit wetter here, but not enough to make a diference. i believe it is because most of our storms come from the pacific, southwest from here. in that case the san juans become one of the first ranges it hits and still has a lot of its moisture content. a majority of the other storms come from the gulf...also very wet.
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mack_north
Jun 9, 2005, 11:45 PM
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How about Fargo? North Dakota is the safest state in the union, our median home costs are low, and there is an active and marginally attractive swingers community. We are also ranked #4 out of #168 small communities in the "Best Place to Advance Your Career" category. Downtown is currently undergoing a $9,000 renovation project that will make us the jewel of the upper middle midwest!
It's easy to meet people. I joined the Fargo Corvette Club only a year ago and I'm already the Treasurer! It's a bit of a drive for quality skiing and climbing on anything other than mud or old asbestos mine tailings but why quibble?
If you are passing through, ask for me at the Holiday Inn on 13th Ave. I am usually in the lounge every other Friday night - I play keyboards in a Journey cover band.
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jestress
Jun 10, 2005, 12:08 AM
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In reply to: How about Fargo? North Dakota is the safest state in the union, our median home costs are low, and there is an active and marginally attractive swingers community. We are also ranked #4 out of #168 small communities in the "Best Place to Advance Your Career" category. Downtown is currently undergoing a $9,000 renovation project that will make us the jewel of the upper middle midwest! It's easy to meet people. I joined the Fargo Corvette Club only a year ago and I'm already the Treasurer! It's a bit of a drive for quality skiing and climbing on anything other than mud or old asbestos mine tailings but why quibble? If you are passing through, ask for me at the Holiday Inn on 13th Ave. I am usually in the lounge every other Friday night - I play keyboards in a Journey cover band.
that's frightening
sounds like some twilight zone hell
:shock:
hmmm, sounds like a bad movie. although...."fargo" was a great movie.
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jestress
Jul 7, 2005, 7:01 PM
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although Fargo was really tempting, the winner is....Boulder. So, I'll be moving to Boulder. Ended up deciding that before my visit to the 3 towns I was considering.....Boulder is just the right fit for me right now. So I'll be there in August. But I won't move there permanently until I return from my peru trip in mid-October.
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zozo
Jul 7, 2005, 7:14 PM
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In reply to: the winner is....Boulder.
Yippeeee! But are you sure I can't talk you into colorado springs? We don't have arial dance but I could string you up to the tree in my backyard.
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jestress
Jul 8, 2005, 2:45 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: the winner is....Boulder. Yippeeee! But are you sure I can't talk you into colorado springs? We don't have arial dance but I could string you up to the tree in my backyard.
I don't think colorado springs is for me....sorry.
so you want to hang me from your tree, eh? interesting....
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zozo
Jul 8, 2005, 2:47 PM
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In reply to: I don't think colorado springs is for me....sorry. so you want to hang me from your tree, eh? interesting....
That's ok, Colorado Springs is'nt really for anybody.
As far as the tree thing?...... Only with your permission of course. Got a funny but Im going to blog it. 8^)
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cchas
Jul 13, 2005, 7:53 PM
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I have just moved to Flag from the Bay Area (about 6 mos ago). Housing prices are going up but compared to Venice its not that bad.
As for Flagstaff, the climbing community is small but its also very open and friendly to people of all levels. In general people want to see others do well and at places like Paradise Forks, you'll get a lot of encouragement if you are leading something (which Boulder can be a circus with a lot of REALLY good climbers but also a lot of egos).
For skiing, ice... whatever I'd go with Durango....
For pure rock...
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