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graniteboy


Jul 15, 2005, 4:30 PM
Post #26 of 35 (3886 views)
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Re: bail rap line [In reply to]
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The obvious problem with rapping on a 7mm or smaller line is the line getting severed. Anyone remember John Harlin's death? he died because of a severed 7mm line.

I also use a system similar to sspssp (or whatever your name is) rapping on the main line, using a very thin (5mm) line as a retrieval line. However, it IS IMPERATIVE when using a 5mm retrieval line that you use an anchor attachment point that is only a little bigger diameter than your main line, so that it is impossible for the knot to ever slip through. I use simple chain links, running the "big" rope through the chain link, then tying my 5mm retrieval line to the "big" rope with a double fisherman's. Just rap the big line, and retrieve with the little one.
The chain link keeps the knot from ever slipping through.

Very simple, but you have to keep a few chain links around. However; its Hellaciously safer method than just having your partner "belay" the retrieval line, and hoping it doesn't slip through.

I've used this system in alot of circumstances, and i agree that at first nyway, the 5mm line is a pain in the ass to handle. But you get a system down with a lot of practice. I use an electrician's coil to manage all that 5mm so it isn't such a cluster.


montaniero


Jul 15, 2005, 4:44 PM
Post #27 of 35 (3886 views)
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Re: bail rap line [In reply to]
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If I trust 7mm cord as an anchor, then I trust it to rapp on.

Fair enough, but a rap anchor doesn't go around sharp edges where it can get cut or around chockstones where it can get stuck.


In reply to:
I plan on rapping on this cord alone, and only in case our lead rope is damaged or stuck and we have to bail.

I don't seem to get it. If you are in a route where you DON'T NEED to abseil or downclimbing is faster/safer (let say, up to Alpine Rock III), a light single or half-rope is fine for the day. You don't need the trail line, it's dead weight.

Now if you DO NEED to abseil, additionally to your rope you do need to bring the trail line or a second rope so you can make proper 50-60m. abseils, not only "just in case" the rope gets chopped in half. And if the rope gets chopped the best will be to use the longest half of the chopped rope with the trail line to continue your abseils.

What I say is I don't understand why you would like to abseil ONLY on the trail line as you said before. CONCLUSION: The trail line goes or doesn't. If it goes it gets used.


montaniero


Jul 15, 2005, 5:01 PM
Post #28 of 35 (3886 views)
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Re: bail rap line [In reply to]
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The obvious problem with rapping on a 7mm or smaller line is the line getting severed. Anyone remember John Harlin's death? he died because of a severed 7mm line.

Indeed, it can be quite dangerous, specially in a place like the Eiger Nordwand with all that rotten rock and falling stones. Maybe the thin trail line is not the best system in this type of alpine climbs and suited better for clean, smooth and dry granite faces.

HOWEVER (and this is a big however), Steve House took only 80m. of 5mm perlon as his "abseil rope" during his 41-hour solo climb of K7 last year. So I guess that with sound judgement, extensive alpine experience and a bit of luck you can make it with only a 5mm. abseil cord. Not that I am suggesting you to do this...


montaniero


Jul 15, 2005, 5:12 PM
Post #29 of 35 (3886 views)
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Re: bail rap line [In reply to]
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However, it IS IMPERATIVE when using a 5mm retrieval line that you use an anchor attachment point that is only a little bigger diameter than your main line, so that it is impossible for the knot to ever slip through. I use simple chain links, running the "big" rope through the chain link, then tying my 5mm retrieval line to the "big" rope with a double fisherman's. Just rap the big line, and retrieve with the little one.
The chain link keeps the knot from ever slipping through.

Very simple, but you have to keep a few chain links around. However; its Hellaciously safer method than just having your partner "belay" the retrieval line, and hoping it doesn't slip through.

By chain links, you mean maillons, right? If you don't have chain links, you can also pass the rope through the anchor, make a figure of eight knot with a small loop to it, attach a carabiner (if possible a screwgate) to the loop and clip the carabiner to the rope. Then you just tie a figure of eight in the cord's tail and also clip the carabiner to its loop. Ready to go.


norushnomore


Jul 19, 2005, 1:39 AM
Post #30 of 35 (3886 views)
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Re: bail rap line [In reply to]
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Well, there are other options besides bluewater.
These guys think technora is the choice for the ultra light rap system

http://www.uscav.net/productinfo.aspx?productid=7344&tabID=137&categoryID=159&pos=11


sspssp


Jul 19, 2005, 8:43 AM
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If you don't have chain links, you can also pass the rope through the anchor, make a figure of eight knot with a small loop to it, attach a carabiner (if possible a screwgate) to the loop and clip the carabiner to the rope. Then you just tie a figure of eight in the cord's tail and also clip the carabiner to its loop. Ready to go.

And then after you rap, you can jug back up the line when the cluster F snags when pulling the rope.


graniteboy


Jul 20, 2005, 9:13 AM
Post #32 of 35 (3886 views)
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Re: bail rap line [In reply to]
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Good retort, sspssp....and one I agree with wholeheartedly.

And No, Montaniero, I do NOT mean "Maillions" I mean Chain Links. Simple goddamned chain links.

And yes, I've also played the 5mm rap line game, but don't recommend it to the suburban noob asses who frequent this site.


d.ben
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Jul 20, 2005, 10:05 AM
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Re: bail rap line [In reply to]
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granite boy, What the hell does being suburban have to do with climbing ability / knowlendge. David Breashears used to live in a boston Suburb while he was climbing such peaks as Everest, you might have heard of it. I have no plans of climbing Everest in any of my lifetimes, but I don't think me living in Cambridge has a f*cking thing to do with what damn line I rapp on. I'll figure it out without your expert opinion thanks.
On another note what do people think of the link Nu posted for that light weight rapp line?
Dom


montaniero


Jul 20, 2005, 6:09 PM
Post #34 of 35 (3886 views)
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Re: bail rap line [In reply to]
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In reply to:
In reply to:
If you don't have chain links, you can also pass the rope through the anchor, make a figure of eight knot with a small loop to it, attach a carabiner (if possible a screwgate) to the loop and clip the carabiner to the rope. Then you just tie a figure of eight in the cord's tail and also clip the carabiner to its loop. Ready to go.

And then after you rap, you can jug back up the line when the cluster F snags when pulling the rope.

You pull the cord, not the rope. Anyway, it works for me and UIAGM guides in the Alps.


norushnomore


Jul 20, 2005, 8:52 PM
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Re: bail rap line [In reply to]
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Ok I finally found a 60m spool. I will give it a try (both rapping on and pulling lead rope) and will let you guys know

TECH CORD, 5mm x 60m Spool (200')

http://www.urbanhart.com/shopsite/accessorycord_newengland.html

Just one small problem, so damn expensive

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